CA CA - Cathedral City, Wht/HispMale, 40-50, UP6979, bound and beaten, wrapped in two comforters, Oct.'02

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Cymro

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I think this is a possible rather than a real strong match so maybe I'm going out on a limb here with my first post - please tear me apart if you feel the need.

Timmy Gene Thompson and this John Doe

Plus points:

1. Some facial similarity;

2. Age - Doe is 20-40 and appears at the higher end of that range from the sketch, Thomspon is 37;

3. Height - exact match;

4. Weight - At 200lbs, Doe is 10 lbs heavier than the upper range for Thompson and "stockily built" as Thompson appears to be. It is not clear whether this weight is estimated or measured;

5. Location - The Doe was found off the route that Thompson would have traveled. He is believed to have camped 3 miles east of where his vehicle was found (he was heading east on a camping trip). Doe was found along the route between Thompson's home and the campsite.

A represents Thompson's residence; B the approximate location where his car was found; and C the location where the John Doe was found.

6. Time frame - John Doe was found approximately two months after Thompson's disappearance; this could of course be a negative depending on state of decompostion although clothes were found with the body.

Negatives:

1. Tattoo - Thompson had a bear tattoo on his back. Doe has "no tattoos noted to his body," which is nearly but not quite the same as saying that he has no tattoos, but does suggest that he had none.

2. Race - Doe is "believed to be Hispanic." Thompson is a tanned Caucasian with dark hair and eyes and IMO relatively high cheekbones.

3. Time frame - a specific weight is given for Doe, which suggests that his may have been a recent death, whereas if the Doe is Thompson it is more likely that he would have died within a short time after his disappearance.

4. Clothing - Doe was found in a blue and white shirt; Thompson left wearing a brown shirt. However it is believed that Thompson set up a camp after leaving his disabled vehicle and being on a camping trip would have had a change of clothing, so it is not a stretch to imagine him having had the chance to change his clothes before his demise.

So what do you all think?
 
I think go for it. BTW - Well done! :clap: They look like twins. If John Doe isn't Timmy at least the investigators will be able to rule out that possible match.
 
I am real reluctant to call it in because I am based in the United Kingdom and I'm not sure how well I'd be received by local LE - plus I've never done anything like this before.

I just wish we had the state of decomposition of the John Doe so that we could get closer to ruling a match in or out.
 
Well actually it says "none noted." I think the likelihood is that this means that there was none (and therefore no match) but if the body were partially decomposed so that the skin didn't reveal any tattoo, or fully and the estimate of the man's weight were based on his bones and the clothing found with him (and not on a fresh corpse) then that wouldn't preclude a match.
 
Well actually it says "none noted." I think the likelihood is that this means that there was none (and therefore no match) but if the body were partially decomposed so that the skin didn't reveal any tattoo, or fully the estimate of the man's weight were based on his bones and the clothing found with him (and not on a fresh corpse) then that wouldn't preclude a match.

Hi Cymro, and welcome to WS !! Good work on this !! I think this is a possible here, and would certainly encourage someone to turn it in. If noone else wants to, I'll make the call next week. Since no date of death is noted, only the date found, I'm not certain of the state of the remains, so like you, am uncertain if a tattoo would be found or not. Everything else is certainly a good match though !! :clap::clap::clap:
 
I was disappointed to find on the sheriff's department site that they don't have dentals for Timmy Thompson because they have full dentals on Doe. I wonder if they have fingerprints and if they've checked those?

I think if it is Timmy, it will all hinge on whether or not Doe was too decomposed to see if there were tats on him.

I am also wondering something about Timmy. It says he wasn't depressed, but it also said he had just quit his job a few days before taking off. Unless he was looking forward to a new opportunity, I can't see why it would be mentioned unless maybe there was something to it -- like he had been in a conflict at work and maybe they suspect foul play?
 
Okay, after two years, this is completely shameless bumping and a lucky find I had way back when.

As this is a San Bernadino County misper, is this a case for David Van Norman? Would anyone be so kind as to raise it with him?
 
The link to the UID is gone but I expect this is him:

http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/463umca.html
http://www.riversidesheriff.org/coroner/unidentified/2002-06279.asp
https://identifyus.org/cases/6979

Strangely, the stats given on the three sites are all different.

Doe Network:
# Estimated age: 25 - 40 years old
# Approximate Height and Weight: 5'9"; 200 lbs.

The Sheriff :
Estimated Age: 40-50 Years of age
Height / Weight: Approx. 5'5" and 138 lbs.

Namus:

Minimum age 40 years
Maximum age 50 years
Weight (pounds) 138, Estimated
Height (inches) 55, Measured

That's about 4ft7.
 
Was this ever submitted?

Anyone wish to submit and see if Timmy has been ruled out as this UID?

tia
 
I looked at the Namus page for the UID and the estimated interval of death to discovery was one day. there is no way the UID's skin would degenerate in one day as to eliminate a bear tattoo on his back.

based on that I do not see how this UID could be Timmy Thompson.
 
All in all, and after some PM discussion with CarlK92405 I now think this is unlikely to be a match. I never submitted it.

While one day's decomp could never hide a tattoo like Timmy's, it wouldn't account for the discrepancies in height, weight, etc., reported by the various LE agencies either, so if someone else wants to run with it, I'd not quite rule it out.

Carl's points were

Carlk92405 said:
(1) TGT doesn't appear to me have any hispanic ethnicity, nor is his hairstyle combed straight back, as many urban hispanics do.

(2) The distance (70 miles from B to C), while not too far to walk under normal conditions, it is too far in the middle of August with very little water in an area that is extremely dry and hot in the summertime. He would never had made it that far.

(3) The John Doe was said to be murdered and dumped in the location that he was found. If TGT was confronted in the desert by a killer, the killer would not need to transport his body 70 miles away. He could easily leave his body right were he killed him without fear of being witnessed.

(4) If he was wandering around in the desert, he probably wouldn't be changing his clothes.

My responses:
Cymro said:
1. Not something I'd noticed but you're waaay more famiilar than I;

2. I would agree with that - I've been in the desert, 20 miles from a gas station with 0 miles on the fuel computer - but I did wonder if he'd been attacked for his wallet and cards he could have been taken into a town and then killed and dumped;

3. See 2. [added today: i.e., there are no ATMs in the desert]

4. Wandering maybe not, but if he was camping and then somehow came to harm, I don't think that'd be ruled out.

However if the postmortem interval is confirmed as one day with the Doe, it's a clear no-match.
 
According to Namus this case hasn't been amended since 2014 - I'm not sure if that includes automatic ruleouts but I assume this means there's been no manual additions

www.namus.gov/UnidentifiedPersons/Case#/6979?nav

Case Numbers
ME/C Case Number 2002-06279
Demographics
Sex Male
Race / EthnicityWhite / Caucasian, Hispanic / Latino
Estimated Age Group Adult - Pre 50
Estimated Age Range (Years) 40-50
Estimated Year of Death 2002
Estimated PMI 1 Days
Height 4' 7"(55 inches) , Measured
Weight 138 lbs, Estimated
Circumstances
TypeUnidentified Deceased
Date Body Found October 22, 2002
NamUs Case Created April 21, 2010
Location Found Map
Location Cathredral CIty, California 92234
County Riverside County
GPS Coordinates (Not Mapped)--
Circumstances of Recovery Found bound and beaten in river wash.
Details of Recovery
Inventory of RemainsAll parts recovered
Condition of RemainsNot recognizable - Traumatic injuries
Physical Description
Hair Color Black
Head Hair Descriptionblack hair worn short and combed back with slight graying at the temples
Body Hair Description normal
Facial Hair Description None
Left Eye Color Brown
Right Eye Color Brown
Clothing and Accessories

Accessories - Two comforters he was wrapped in
Clothing - white brief underpants, a short sleeved white shirt with blue horizontal stripes (med)On the Body
 

#2002-6279​

Unidentified Victim Details​

Race:Believed to be Hispanic
Date Died or Found:October 22, 2002 at 5:20 p.m.
Place Found / Died:His body was found in the White Water River Wash just north of Ramon Road, Cathedral City.
Estimated Age:40-50 Years of age
Hair / Eyes:Black hair and brown eyes
Hair Length:Short, combed back
Height / Weight:Approximately 5 foot 5 inches and 138 pounds
Location of Incident:Unknown. Believed to be dumped at location found.
Features or Distinguishing Marks:Medium build. No tattoos noted to his body. Good dental care with crowns and filling. Tooth Number 3 had a chrome partial denture.
Clothing:He was wearing a short sleeved, white shirt with blue horizontal stripes. He had no jewelry or identification with him.
Circumstances:Found by passerby lying along a bank of the White Water River Wash.
2002_06279 Sketch
1657111206929.jpeg
1657111273522.jpeg
 
NamUs #UP6979

Demographics
Sex: Male
Race/Ethnicity: White / Caucasian, Hispanic / Latino
Estimated Age Group: Adult - Pre 50
Estimated Age Range (Years): 40-50
Estimated Year of Death: 2002
Estimated PMI: 1 Day
Height: 4'7" (55 inches), Measured [Not sure if this is accurate - 4'7" is awfully short for a grown man]
Weight: 138 lbs, Estimated

Circumstances
Type: Unidentified Deceased
Date Body Found: October 22, 2002
NamUs Case Created: April 21, 2010
ME/C QA Reviewed: N/A
Location Found: Cathedral City, California
County: Riverside County
Circumstances of Recovery: Found bound and beaten in river wash.
Inventory of Remains: All parts recovered
Condition of Remains: Not recognizable - Traumatic injuries

Physical Description
Hair Color: Black
Head Hair Description: black hair worn short and combed back with slight graying at the temples
Body Hair Description: Normal
Facial Hair Description: None
Eye Color: Brown
Distinctive Physical Features: None specified

Clothing and Accessories
- Two comforters he was wrapped in (Near the Body)
- White brief underpants, a short sleeved white shirt with blue horizontal stripes (med) (On the Body)
6979_28584.jpg
 
A 4'7 adult would qualify as having dwarfism. Its possible the mistake is in the 55 inches supposing to mean 5'5, which would make more sense, bc 138 pounds and 4'7 would be pretty obese.
Just checked and UID wiki says 5'5. He has a DoeNet page, obvs can't see it right now.
 
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