FL - 17-yo Boy Shot to Death by Neighborhood Watch Captain #2

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So Tray did have his phone with him, just like his family said! He was talking to a young girl (bless his heart, I hope he was able to have a first love)! LE blamed Tray's family for not giving them access to the phone! Tray's family said they never had the phone! LE had it!

Where is the PHONE???

Are there Lakes in that community?

I wonder if LE wanted access to phone records even though they had the phone. I think SPD has the same mindset as GZ. They considered Trayvon a suspect. IMO typical of the SPD.
JMO
 
Well I guess that depends on what one considers "justifiable." Is killing of Trayvon "justifiable?"

What you just asked/offered had nothing to do with my original question. So I will rephrase.

Has the "Stand Your Ground" law caused an overall increase in homicides, or is it roughly the same number of homicides, with more of them being determined justifiable?

There's no way to analyze the effects of the law without looking in context.
 
Another thing, which i don't think was brought up here. Let's assume for a second that Zimmerman actually did have injuries. Did the ME or anyone else do an examination on Trayvon's fist to determine there is bruising. Once again, anyone who has gotten into a fight, you contact a person enough times, especially on the head, you will have bruised knuckles. If Tray got some good licks in on Zimmerman indeed, there should of been some evidence, photos and everything to corroborate this. IMO.
 
Right there is one of the problems. The get out of jail card was not needed because there was no jail.

It's an expression that shouldn't be taken literally.

"It is an abomination," said former Broward County prosecutor David Frankel. "The ultimate intent might be good, but in practice, people take the opportunity to shoot first and say later they had a justification. It almost gives them a free pass to shoot."
http://articles.sun-sentinel.com/20...force-multiple-gunshot-wounds-maury-hernandez
 
Wow, just listening to HLN.

According to the person speaking, there is an exception to the stand your ground law, called first aggressor law.

It means if you are the aggressor and then go on to lose the fight, you can't then claim self defense.

Interesting
 
Bold part makes me so sad....in the world I grew up in, this is one of the reasons to HAVE a porch. To keep dry from the rain. To think a neighbor's kid is no longer considered normal for ducking out of the rain on the closest porch......well its just a sad sad world. Thankfully if I see a downpour and a kid run up on a porch and put up his hoodie, my first thoughts are "getting out of the rain" instead of SHOOOOOOOOT THAT ****

(and for the record, i'm only in my 30s....not 100).

Lawyer says he went to the store prior to the game starting to get a drink. His brother then asked him to get him some Skittles.

Started raining on the way home. Ran home as it started pouring. Tray ducks under a random porch to avoid the rain and put his hoodie up, then goes back to the sidewalk to start walking towards home again. He did not know GZ was watching this the whole time (apparently this was the suspicious behavior). Tray tells girl on the phone he then sees someone following him. Thinks he had lost him. Then says he's right behind me.
 
I wonder if LE wanted access to phone records even though they had the phone. I think SPD has the same mindset as GZ. They considered Trayvon a suspect. IMO typical of the SPD.
JMO

If I had been treated the way this family had been treated, I wouldn't grant them access to the phone records either because I would want to be the first one to see what they said! Let them get a search warrant for the phone records. I'm sure they happily gave the FBI permission!
 
Wow, just listening to HLN.

According to the person speaking, there is an exception to the stand your ground law, called first aggressor law.

It means if you are the aggressor and then go on to lose the fight, you can't then claim self defense.

Interesting
Yep yep - exactly. You can't confront, pursue or be the first aggressor and then claim self defense. that's why none of this makes any sense. All the investigators on scene had to do was talk to the dispatcher that told GZ NOT to follow him and things would have changed - immediately. Why this didn't happen I have no clue.

At the very least GZ should have been taken to the station for questioning - at the least, until the lead investigator had all the facts and timeline and events. Again, for some unknown reason this did not happen.

The FBI will get to the bottom of all of this.
 
Am I the only one who finds is suspicious that it took over 22 days for the info that Martin was on the phone with a friend at the time who heard the entire encounter to come forward? Had I heard what are allegedly the last monents of a good friend in a controversial situation, I would have been screaming about it at the top of my lungs from the get go. If she heard what she claims toi have heard, why wouldn't she have tried contacting Martin's parents, either in Sanford, or Miami?

just because it was just released through the media doesn't mean attempts weren't made to contact SPD or that in fact the SPD hasn't heard this info before. SPD basically said "CASE CLOSED" the evening of the shooting. Sure sounds like this girl has a phone record to back up her story. GZ still has NOTHING to back up his.
 
I enjoyed seeing Trayvon's father with Anderson Cooper. Cooper threw out a lot of hard questions that many people are asking themselves...replaying parts of the tapes and asking the questions. He brought up the attire of Trayvon and stated that Cooper himself wears this outfit a lot off camera, what made Trayvon so different?

I was so impressed with Trayvon's dad. He was respectful, even speaking about Zimmerman's father's comments. He was collected, and stated clearly what he feels happens to his son. I can only imagine how he must feel on the inside.
 
Yep yep - exactly. You can't confront, pursue or be the first aggressor and then claim self defense. that's why none of this makes any sense. All the investigators on scene had to do was talk to the dispatcher that told GZ NOT to follow him and things would have changed - immediately. Why this didn't happen I have no clue.

At the very least GZ should have been taken to the station for questioning - at the least, until the lead investigator had all the facts and timeline and events. Again, for some unknown reason this did not happen.

The FBI will get to the bottom of all of this.

Well, in the other thread, it was pointed out that Zimmerman's father is a pretty connected man? That is why I want the FBI to get Zimmerman's phone records and see if there was a call made to him while police were "investigating" Zimmerman's claims of self defense?
 
"Trayvon said, 'What, are you following me for,' and the man said, 'What are you doing here.' Next thing I hear is somebody pushing, and somebody pushed Trayvon because the head set just fell. I called him again and he didn't answer the phone."

If it were a cell phone, wouldn't GZ have seen him on the phone? I'm guessing he wouldn't have wanted to confront anyone if he saw them on the phone talking. But if it were a blue tooth/ear piece, it's possible he couldn't see it. I guess it doesn't matter at this point and I don't know why it's bugging me. MOO
 
I'd like to also add... the GF's testimony is crucial, because according to GZ, TM ran away, which led to many people, espcially on here question, how did GZ catch a 17 YO athelete. It must have been Tray who confronted Zimmerman, because he could of easily escaped as he continued to run.

Well there you have it... he never ran, thus GZ was able to catch him quite easily, especially with him Tray being on the phone. I think most of what GZ told police initially... was a lie. Tray never walked towards him, Tray never ran away, his hands probably never went to his waistband in a threatening manner. Can't wait to see how GZ fairs in prison.
 
Yep yep - exactly. You can't confront, pursue or be the first aggressor and then claim self defense. that's why none of this makes any sense. All the investigators on scene had to do was talk to the dispatcher that told GZ NOT to follow him and things would have changed - immediately. Why this didn't happen I have no clue.

At the very least GZ should have been taken to the station for questioning - at the least, until the lead investigator had all the facts and timeline and events. Again, for some unknown reason this did not happen.

The FBI will get to the bottom of all of this.

Exactly. I'm searching trying to find another case that is even similar to this one, and I have been unsuccessful so far. The cases of self-defense that I have come across are either

1. Someone outright attacks another person or
2. The people are engaged in "mutual combat," a dispute, and/or a fight

I have not seen any other case where a person was chased down. Even with the road rage incident, they both pulled over and were fighting before the other man was stabbed.

I don't understand what the dispute was between Tray and GZ. Only one of them had a problem with the other. Only one of them was chased, pursued, and attacked. This was not self-defense by any stretch of anyone's imagination.
 
Wow, just listening to HLN.

According to the person speaking, there is an exception to the stand your ground law, called first aggressor law.

It means if you are the aggressor and then go on to lose the fight, you can't then claim self defense.

Interesting

They can still claim self-defense but they have an obligation to try and escape first.
 
"Trayvon said, 'What, are you following me for,' and the man said, 'What are you doing here.' Next thing I hear is somebody pushing, and somebody pushed Trayvon because the head set just fell. I called him again and he didn't answer the phone."

If it were a cell phone, wouldn't GZ have seen him on the phone? I'm guessing he wouldn't have wanted to confront anyone if he saw them on the phone talking. But if it were a blue tooth/ear piece, it's possible he couldn't see it. I guess it doesn't matter at this point and I don't know why it's bugging me. MOO

With a head set on, which is tiny, coupled with the fact he had a hoodie on, and it dark / rainy... i don't think Zimmerman ever knew he was on the phone.
 
They can still claim self-defense but they have an obligation to try and escape first.

Murderers can claim anything the want. That's why facts are important.

But this has nothing to to do with GZ trying to escape. It has to to do with evidence pointing to him being the aggressor.

He didn't need to escape from anything if he was the one in pursuit, the only trying trying to escape was Trayvon.

JMHO
 
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