trial thread: 3/23/2012

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He also told her according to TLM he would not be seeing her for a while - that does not seem so odd when two murderers part for awhile when they think the heat is on but it also would seem appropriate if she scared the beejesus out of him. On the other hand if he was so guilty of rape and murder you might think he may want to keep his only witness closer for a time.
 
But maybe he had both hands on the wheel :what: Where was TLM!!!!

In the front seat. She saw him do what he was doing and I believe that he was doing that. He waited the whole day for what he was about to do to Tori. I'm sure he will be convicted of sexual assault. JMO
 
Who drives down rough country roads, or worse driving in that field while masturbating with one hand on the wheel?

Country roads are not usually that rough, and I am pretty sure there was actually a laneway back into that field, it wasn't necessarily rough. JMO
 
If the defense theory is true........you are asking the million dollar questions.

We might ask ourselves.........Who in their right mind would participate in such a plan?

Perhaps the answer is in the question.........."in their right mind".

MTR was basically a loner and a drifter. He had few friends in Woodstock, was having trouble at home, trouble finding steady employment, lacked education.............and had a drug problem.

Perhaps he believed it was going to be the settling of a debt, among drug dealers and drug users, and not something that would come to the attention of the police. Perhaps he believed it would be resolved quickly, TLM would get her money and VS would be returned........and nobody would call the police because they didn't want the involvement to include drugs and debts.
Perhaps he was told he would share in the recovery of the debt.

This is not an excuse for what he believed or what he did, but I am as flummoxed as everyone else to understand why any sane young man would involve himself in such a plan.

I try to understand, that as I don't travel in the company of drug dealers or habitual users, I just don't understand their mentality.

My son has many old time friends who got involved in drugs. Everything from pot to cocaine, oxys, percs, and alcohol.

When I ask him why.........he doesn't know what happened to them. He says they "drifted into it" and now they can't get out.

He has seen his friends so stupid.............they didn't know where they were.

So...........maybe we have to remember that these people aren't in full control of their faculties for much of the time.........and often do things that wouldn't make any sense to anyone else.

MR was very social and had lots of friends...although most of them happened to be women. He had, from all appearances, a normal family, 2 brothers and a mother who loved him and doted on him. He had a working vehicle and connections to many people and places all over southern Ontario. He was said to be attached to his blackberry. He couldn't put it down long enough not to check his voicemail after the crime.

He had his mother supporting him and multiple ladies to spend his time with. There was no need for him to latch onto an 18yr old "gangsta" drug addict for any reason other than perhaps what ultimately happened.

MOO
 
MR was very social and had lots of friends...although most of them happened to be women. He had, from all appearances, a normal family, 2 brothers and a mother who loved him and doted on him. He had a working vehicle and connections to many people and places all over southern Ontario. He was said to be attached to his blackberry. He couldn't put it down long enough not to check his voicemail after the crime.

He had his mother supporting him and multiple ladies to spend his time with. There was no need for him to latch onto an 18yr old "gangsta" drug addict for any reason other than perhaps what ultimately happened.

MOO
:goodpost:
 
Country roads are not usually that rough, and I am pretty sure there was actually a laneway back into that field, it wasn't necessarily rough. JMO

It was actually snowy if I recall correctly, TLM said she tried to mess up the tire tracks in the snow after. So it was likely slippery, even worse considering his car wasn't a 4x4.

MOO
 
In the front seat. She saw him do what he was doing and I believe that he was doing that. He waited the whole day for what he was about to do to Tori. I'm sure he will be convicted of sexual assault. JMO

OMG! It's horrifying.
 
I am just listening to this MTR Interview, and I am just floored with the fact that he sat there and had that interview with LE, knowing full well Victoria was murdered, since Derstine has admitted that MTR "helped" TLM dispose of Victoria.

He immediately started spinning the story about TM, knowing full well "the missing girl" was dead.

Wow.
 
In the front seat. She saw him do what he was doing and I believe that he was doing that. He waited the whole day for what he was about to do to Tori. I'm sure he will be convicted of sexual assault. JMO

Yes...good things were coming his way. Didn't he post that right after returning home from cruising by Oliver Stephens Public School around 9am. You know...that school that his lawyer tried to point out that he doesn't live near and had no reason to be around there prior to this crime.

MOO
 
He had 6 weeks to get rid of his evidence. No car seat, no hammer, no coats, none of Tori's clothes. All while she's in juvie. JMO

(BBM)

Well, if TLM's testimony is to be believed, he didn't need 6 weeks. According to her, they got rid of the hammer, their clothes, and other evidence the same night at the car wash ... together.

Cynthia Mulligan‏@CityCynthia

they started to clean inside of vehicle, put garbage bags in dumpster and garbage can. The bags had the jacket, hammer in it.

(Police have never found Tori’s backpack, her other clothes or the hammer that was used to bludgeon her, said Gowdey.)

http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/...rown-to-present-case-against-michael-rafferty
 
In the front seat. She saw him do what he was doing and I believe that he was doing that. He waited the whole day for what he was about to do to Tori. I'm sure he will be convicted of sexual assault. JMO

BBM

I honestly thought that up until today too, however, now I want to see the forensic evidence to come before I cast judgement on that. His lawyer presented the scenario where Tori was "offered" to MTR, and he declined. I tend to think if there was concrete forensic evidence to prove MTR had raped Tori, Derstine wouldn't have said that. Also, wasn't there a reference somewhere in her journal to raping another female? I will have to hunt for that tweet again.

JMHO
 
I've been thinking about this Amanda he's talking about, if I have it right he's talking about Baxley St, that's if he's talking about going west out of town, that's too far from Oliver Stephens for the child to have gone to school with Tori, but maybe if Amanda and Tara were good friends the kids hung out when the parents got together. If that's the case maybe that's why she ditched him, they already suspected TLM at that point, maybe they knew he was friends with her. Not sure where I'm going with this, just rambling.lol:moo:
 
This clearly outlines the defence's theory, that MR did not know that Tori was even kidnapped until they were in Guelph or the Mt Forest area. So according to MR's lawyer, he didn't know Tori was kidnapped when Tori got in or was pushed in to the car.

Derstine presented an alternative villain and scenario for the jury.

"The abduction was your idea," he suggested to McClintic. "You went and lured this girl. You brought her in the car all friendly that Michael thought nothing of it. Later on you told him that the girl was in the car for a drug debt.Still later . . . you offered her to Michael, sexually. When it became clear that he didn't want your gift, you directed him to a rural location on a pretext . . . You said that she could be taken to a safe house. Once you got to that lane you told him to walk away because you wanted to talk to the little girl because she was scared of him. You . . . threw her down and killed her. Mr Rafferty came back after the death, was horrified, but helped you clean up."

http://www.lfpress.com/news/london/raffertytrial/2012/03/23/19543041.html
 
This clearly outlines the defence's theory, that MR did not know that Tori was even kidnapped until they were in Guelph or the Mt Forest area. So according to MR's lawyer, he didn't know Tori was kidnapped when Tori got in or was pushed in to the car.



http://www.lfpress.com/news/london/raffertytrial/2012/03/23/19543041.html


MTR didn't know Tori was kidnapped, kind of like the way he didn't know anything about "the missing girl" on the 19th when he was interviewed.

How many lies were in that interview, just from the small amount that Derstine has admitted today?

Wow.
 
Yes because in all of her rants, she'd never once insinuated that she wanted to abduct or kill a child. Not even Necro or the ICP lyrics would endorse that. Wonder why when she finally did kill someone, it happened to be a child? Because she was there? Not because she chose this victim?


MOO

Two words "mildly vindictive"

JMO
 
This clearly outlines the defence's theory, that MR did not know that Tori was even kidnapped until they were in Guelph or the Mt Forest area. So according to MR's lawyer, he didn't know Tori was kidnapped when Tori got in or was pushed in to the car.



http://www.lfpress.com/news/london/raffertytrial/2012/03/23/19543041.html

Yeah okay. Victoria just got up off the floor after being pushed into the car and said "hey how ya doing" to MR and sat there all happy in the back seat all the way to Guelph?

And there were very early reports that someone saw a child being pushed into a car in that parking lot so I sure hope those were true and that the witness to that is in the line up.

And then after she "offered the child to MR sexually" and he declined, he proceeded to drive them to a rural laneway and not directly to a police station? I can't even believe this big shot lawyer is insulting the intelligence of that jury in this way.

MOO
 
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