IA IA - Elizabeth Collins, 8, & Lyric Cook, 10, Evansdale, 13 July 2012 - #29

"Our hearts and prayers go out to the families and friends of those precious little girls. The Black Hawk County Sheriff's Office pledges vigilance in our pursuit of those responsible and will extend every resource to concluding this case so that justice may prevail."
-Black Hawk County Sheriff Tony Thompson

Posted by the Black Hawk County Sheriff's Office - December 10, 2012
http://www.bhcso.org/
http://wcfcourier.com/news/local/ev...cle_18411a90-cd32-11e1-a656-0019bb2963f4.html
http://www.kwwl.com/story/19023342/evansdale-police-searching-for-two-missing-girls

IA-Elizabeth Collins, 8, & Lyric Cook, 10, Evansdale, 13 July 2012 *Media/Maps/TmLne* - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community

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Case Map by poster hollye

Amandareckonwith's case archive

Related: IA IA - Kathlynn Shepard, 15, Dayton, 20 May 2013 - abduction of 2 girls, 1 located - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community

and Hollye's Case Map

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Continue the discussion here:

Please review the rules about discussion or speculation about family members:

Originally Posted by imamaze
Please remember the following when discussing the case:
Websleuths is a moderated forum. We strive to discuss cases in a friendly environment.

Things to know before you post:
Leave the snark -- and the rumors --at the door.
Treat other posters with respect.
Do not sleuth individuals who have not been mentioned in MSM either as persons of interest or as suspects by LE.
Choose the links you post wisely; don't link to sites which feature bizarre speculation, etc.
If you have questions or concerns about a post, alert on that post and contact a mod. Do not quote and/or reply to the post. If you do, and the post is subsequently deleted, your post is subject to deletion, as well.
If you have other questions in general, scroll to the bottom of the page and find "View forum leaders." There you will find a list of moderators available if you need to PM one.
Remember: you can disagree with a post and address it, but you do NOT attack the poster.

No one has been named by LE or MSM as a POI or suspect in this case.
The parents, whatever you may personally think about them, have not been named.
That means that they, and their families, their neighbors, and their friends and "associates," are not to be sleuthed or badmouthed.

Click to expand...

fyi: Any rules that are changed in other cases are considered on a case by case basis by administration. The above are the rules to discuss THIS case.

Pointer to photos from Amandareckonwith's case archive: http://s296.beta.photobucket.com/us...rissey -IA-/7bridges11.jpg.html?sort=6&o=124

carbuff said:

Pointer to photos from Amandareckonwith's case archive: http://s296.beta.photobucket.com/us...rissey -IA-/7bridges11.jpg.html?sort=6&o=124

Click to expand...

This photo clearly shows the containment area (private land) abutting the wood (also partially private).

http://s296.beta.photobucket.com/us...=6&o=131&_suid=136243449209502879556929241374

:sigh:

threecrazykids said:

:sigh:

Click to expand...

:ufo:

Regarding the mention of a memorial at Seven Bridges near where the bodies were found, there are plastic flowers or something at the gate at the entrance (if I recall from my pictures). The park is closed for the winter.

Sent from my Kindle Fire using Tapatalk 2

not jumping into the 7 bridges debate

1) because I think the area previously mapped by Otto to be correct but I do not wish to right fight and SS seems pretty well convinced that her area is right.

and

2) the MSM state a number of times that the area the girls was found on is public land and not private so that is good enough for me. (Not going to go find links because as I said, I have no wish to be involved in the debate)

Just wanted to thank Imamaze for the new thread and get a post on it so my subscription is there.

Does anyone recall when Misty is getting out of rehab? I'm curious about what her input will be re: the memorial at Meyers Lake for the girls.

SapphireSteel said:

This photo clearly shows the containment area (private land) abutting the wood (also partially private).

http://s296.beta.photobucket.com/us...=6&o=131&_suid=136243449209502879556929241374

Click to expand...

That's a picture along 270th St showing that the entrance to Seven Bridges is 3/4 miles ahead. That signage is next to the farmland outside the park, probably well over a mile from where the girls were actually located. (3/4 miles to the entrance + distance to the remains) :moo:

After all this time, armed with what little facts we have to go on , what do you all feel that the killer has as far as characteristics to look out for?

chelsea6 said:

After all this time, armed with what little facts we have to go on , what do you all feel that the killer has as far as characteristics to look out for?

Click to expand...

I feel that this was planned and well-executed with more than 1 person being involved. The person responsible is powerful, threatening, elusive, and able to keep people from talking due to fear of harm, retaliation, or meeting a similar fate and/or he is able to provide them money, drugs, goods. I don't think the original intent of the abduction was murder, but unplanned or unforseen consequences obviously resulted in the girls being dead!

Just my opinion!

chelsea6 said:

After all this time, armed with what little facts we have to go on , what do you all feel that the killer has as far as characteristics to look out for?

Click to expand...

Killers murder their own kind. He is a white male, heterosexual, large man because he can man handle two girls. He is a hunter, and a con artist able to manipulate. He is local and lives within 10 miles of Evandale. You would never suspect him, he has no record. He is narcissistic and lacks empathy.

chelsea6 said:

After all this time, armed with what little facts we have to go on , what do you all feel that the killer has as far as characteristics to look out for?

Click to expand...

I'll bite.

I think this crime was well planned by a local male perp with the time to observe the girls, the neighborhood and area surrounding Meyers Lake and the Collins' home. He was aware of which homes in the lake area were and were not occupied during the day and the habits of those who lived in the immediate area. I think he was aware of anyone who routinely came home for lunch and of the time the daycare children walked around the lake. I think he planned the abduction down to smallest detail. I think he purposefully chose two girls and chose to take them in the middle of the day because he correctly believed that it would bring quick and significant attention from the msm and the FBI and notierity was part of his goal. I think he has enjoyed watching LE search for the girls and may have participated. With the lack of coverage at this time, he may be upset about not getting attention or he may be concerned that he left evidence at 7 Bridges and LE is watching him. Regarding personality, I would suggest that he is someone without empathy and someone who is a rule-breaker. I think it's likely that he has speeding and /or parking tickets and may have a couple of convictions of small crimes. I believe that he has had inappropriate interactions with children or young teens that have not been reported to an adult or if they have been, he has passed them off as "joking" or as misunderstandings. I imagine him as someone who likes to boast and who exaggerates any accomplishments. He manipulates those around him by being charming at times if it accomplishes his goal for the moment. He will also use intimidation to get what he wants. He is someone that people believe is "an OK fellow, just a little odd at times" and no one suspects him of possibly being capable of abducting and murdering two children.

chelsea6 said:

After all this time, armed with what little facts we have to go on , what do you all feel that the killer has as far as characteristics to look out for?

Click to expand...

:seeya: Hi Chelsea6! Good to see you!

Gosh! We just know so little information in the case, it's hard to come up with a good psychological profile. I think if we knew COD, it would help narrow down suspects. But that ain't happening, so right now here is what I'm feeling:

* White male
* Lives and/or works near Evansdale, Iowa
* Has some means of income
* Would appear harmless
* Possibly unmarried and does not enter into long-term relationships
* Has some knowledge of police investigative methods and evidence
gathering techniques
* Had a criminal record as a teenager which was expunged
* Self-assured and confident in his abilities

I'm still torn between 1 or 2 perps and sexual or drug revenge angle. :notgood:

Bringing this post by ThreeCrazyKids forward from last thread because I definitely have wondered about the "paddle boat connection" too.

Ok...just throwing out a completely different theory here, given some other info that was thrown in the mix earlier in the investigation, and things I noticed:

What if...at some point, maybe even earlier in the week, maybe the day before, they met someone who had been fishing at the lake. Maybe they'd been going to the lake multiple times just in that week and had seen this same person.

We know that LE was looking for someone who was paddle boating (also stating they were NOT considered a suspect) and LE was looking for this person to come forward with ANY information (which they did) about possibly seeing anything.


We also know that the dogs scent went from the trail to the water's edge...and from what I've read, appeared to stop there.

What IF: the girls DID get into a boat with this person...even a John boat with just a little trolling motor that would QUIETLY take the girls from the edge of the water over to the parking lot and into their vehicle. Maybe he pretended that the motor was having issues, etc. and that he couldn't take them back to their bikes via the boat.

The scent trail wouldn't have followed them after the water, the bikes would remain at the gate, and Maybe he told them he'd give them a ride back around to the grassy area to their bikes and never did. He'd have them both in the vehicle, probably not fighting or anything, thinking everything was fine until it was too late.

I am of the fear that even though these girls may have known something was wrong that they were completely TERRIFIED at what was happening and knew they couldn't fight off an adult.

A john boat could EASILY hold all 3 of them, even 4 easily...we fish with my entire family in a john boat and there are 5 of us...3 being kids.

We also know during the first couple of days they had completely dismantled the dock right there at the parking lot. Maybe there WAS info that we aren't aware of, that someone WAS fishing in a boat on the lake that day.

I don't know...I'm just trying to figure out how the scent trail could have stopped at the water (if that is REALLY the case, since we aren't handlers) and the perp could possibly get them out of the park without a scent trail to follow.

If the scent trail did go out into the water, would the dogs have somehow been able to notify their handlers of it?

The truck (or even a CAR can pull a john boat) would be in the parking lot...people could have seen the girls in the area of the parking lot, maybe didn't even pay attention to any vehicles there, etc.

However, one would think that any vehicle that was caught on CCTV that day pulling a boat would have immediately been a red flag to LE. Then I thought maybe they LEFT the boat in the parking lot and just took off with the girls...but that would ALSO be a red flag too...

I don't know, I'm just trying to think of how a boat COULD be involved somehow (since the scent trail stopped at the water's edge).



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Last edited by threecrazykids; 03-02-2013 at 08:26 PM.

SBM from ThreeCrazyKids' original post - TCK in black, my response in purple

"What if...at some point, maybe even earlier in the week, maybe the day before, they met someone who had been fishing at the lake. Maybe they'd been going to the lake multiple times just in that week and had seen this same person."

I agree that maybe the day before the girls had gone to Meyers lake. Previously, I was under the impression that Misty had just started working and she had been taking Lyric to the lake that was a good swimmng area (George Wyeth?). Perhaps weeks earlier the girls or maybe even Elizabeth had met someone and was told come by anytime and "I'll give you a ride in my boat." Elizabeth wanted to share this with Lyric and told Lyric about someone wanting to give them a boat ride. Just the sort of thing two cousins/besties would not want to do without the other, but not necessarily tell an adult because they knew the adult would say NO (and appropriately so - Red flag - stranger danger). The girls being familiar with this person or thinking they were familiar with the person because of previous contact would not necessarily see this person as a threat or dangers.

"We know that LE was looking for someone who was paddle boating (also stating they were NOT considered a suspect) and LE was looking for this person to come forward with ANY information (which they did) about possibly seeing anything."

I remember seeing in the news pic an old green paddle boat at one time. It looked to not be in working order. Sort of sunk in the mud, maybe after the lake had drained. We also saw a bright yellow paddle boat that showed up in one of otto's fabulous overhead picture of Meyer's lake. Also, did someone come forward about a missing paddle boat - they thought it was stolen, but then returned? My memory is fuzzy on the paddle boat, but has always stood out as "odd." Who saw the paddle boater and told LE? How did LE know there was a paddle boater? The paddle boater did not come forward until requested to do so by LE. Was there an actual paddle boater or was LE just looking for the owner of the green paddle boat that looked to be abandoned?

SBM from ThreeCrazyKids' original post - TCK in black, my response in purple

"We also know that the dogs scent went from the trail to the water's edge...and from what I've read, appeared to stop there.

What IF: the girls DID get into a boat with this person...even a John boat with just a little trolling motor that would QUIETLY take the girls from the edge of the water over to the parking lot and into their vehicle. Maybe he pretended that the motor was having issues, etc. and that he couldn't take them back to their bikes via the boat.

The scent trail wouldn't have followed them after the water, the bikes would remain at the gate, and Maybe he told them he'd give them a ride back around to the grassy area to their bikes and never did. He'd have them both in the vehicle, probably not fighting or anything, thinking everything was fine until it was too late.

The scent trail wouldn't have followed them after the water, the bikes would remain at the gate, and Maybe he told them he'd give them a ride back around to the grassy area to their bikes and never did. He'd have them both in the vehicle, probably not fighting or anything, thinking everything was fine until it was too late.

I am of the fear that even though these girls may have known something was wrong that they were completely TERRIFIED at what was happening and knew they couldn't fight off an adult.

A john boat could EASILY hold all 3 of them, even 4 easily...we fish with my entire family in a john boat and there are 5 of us...3 being kids.

We also know during the first couple of days they had completely dismantled the dock right there at the parking lot. Maybe there WAS info that we aren't aware of, that someone WAS fishing in a boat on the lake that day.

I don't know...I'm just trying to figure out how the scent trail could have stopped at the water (if that is REALLY the case, since we aren't handlers) and the perp could possibly get them out of the park without a scent trail to follow."

Hats off to you TCK! This was not a scenerio I had considered, but it makes perfect sense!! This would explain the dogs tracking the girls to the water's edge and their bikes being left where they were found.

Regarding how many people a john boat could hold - makes me think there was one more than perp, perhaps as many as 3 ?. Once they reached the dock in the parking area to load the boat, one perp took the girls and the other took the boat. Maybe the perp in helping the girls get out the boat carried them to the vehicle if the vehicle was parked at the water's edge ("we don't want you to get your feet wet and muddy girls") - no scent of the girls being on the ground.

Another question, why was that particular dock dismantled? This was the dock that would have been closest to Maiden Lane, correct? Was it rotting and in bad condition and could have collapsed? Was there evidence on the dock?

I think LE is watching everyone....and he is watching them. He probably has not done anything wrong since then afraid that he will be noticed. Even though he may be nervous I think he takes some pleasure in knowing nobody knows. I had wondered in the beginning if it was someone who might have helped in some of the searches for the girls. For the most part IMO I think he is a loner, 30-50 yrs old., handful of friends, likes to watch people, malls, fairs, etc. Not sure about type of job?