17 yo Trayvon Martin Shot to Death by Neighborhood Watch Captain #25

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LiveLaughLuv said:
http://www.cnn.com/2012/04/13/justice/florida-teen-shooting/index.html


From the beginning, when this case came to view, the biggest clue against GZ are the words he used during his 911 call....his mentality is evident...he was not going to let another 'criminal' who he felt did not belong in HIS community get away, made sure TM wasn't going to get away...he reholstering his weapon makes me feel as if he was proud of what he'd done, as he stood over his trophy, not once rendering aid..GZ's words followed by his actions, will do him in...

As far as the conflicting accounts, we hear about that all the time, which is why we go to trial...then a jury of GZ's peers will weigh his fate. Who is more credible...if he takes it that far...he might also have the incentive to plea down for less prison time...we need to allow the wheels of justice to roll.... :maddening:
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Another member, can't recall if it was Papa or Doc, offered an interesting point. GZ was a frequent 911 caller and perhaps, on previous occasions, other "suspicious persons" had disappeared before LE arrived. IMO, that's the most plausible reason I've heard as to why GZ might have decided to follow and detain TM. There's still room for reasonable doubt, but that's the closest to convincing I've heard yet.

But, IMO, even with the reholstering of his weapon which, although I'm not a gun owner, I presume becomes an automatic response, GZ's behavior after shooting TM can be explained by shock. IMO, GZ is still in shock. He looked so small and meek standing before the judge, and as one commenter noted "gone." And if he can claim a head injury, he may be able to get anything he said to the cops tossed out (at least that's what others have suggested, not sure if it's within FL's legal limits). I know my crazy ex-DIL successfully used a head injury as an excuse for a hit and run in DC.

IMO, the SP needs a lot more evidence than what's revealed in the charging documents if she wants to nail him with murder 2. Her case seems pretty weak to me, so I hope she's hiding her aces.

JMO, OMO, and :moo:
 
LiveLaughLuv said:
http://www.cnn.com/2012/04/13/justice/florida-teen-shooting/index.html


From the beginning, when this case came to view, the biggest clue against GZ are the words he used during his 911 call....his mentality is evident...he was not going to let another 'criminal' who he felt did not belong in HIS community get away, made sure TM wasn't going to get away...he reholstering his weapon makes me feel as if he was proud of what he'd done, as he stood over his trophy, not once rendering aid..GZ's words followed by his actions, will do him in...

As far as the conflicting accounts, we hear about that all the time, which is why we go to trial...then a jury of GZ's peers will weigh his fate. Who is more credible...if he takes it that far...he might also have the incentive to plea down for less prison time...we need to allow the wheels of justice to roll.... :maddening:
Click to expand...

So the biggest clue to you was the tone of GZ's voice WHEN HE CALLED THE POLICE? At best, that's a paradox. At worse, it's exculpatory. JMO.
 
Good morning all! I do not know anything about the Sunshine law. Will all the records be released now that he has been charged? Will that included all phone calls, and any evidence gathered by LE? Statements from witnesses, family, video from stores, etc? Tia
 
jjenny said:
Even if the investigation was done, I am not so sure it should have resulted in an arrest and a charge. For prosecution to convict Zimmerman, they will have to prove Zimmerman did not act in self-defense beyond a reasonable doubt. And I don't see anything in that arrest affidavit that indicates prosecution got the evidence beyond a reasonable doubt that Zimmerman did not act in self-defense.

"The moment George Zimmerman fired that shot is the key question in this entire case," Hornsby said. "Did he reasonably believe he had to fire that shot to defend himself? And the fact (Corey) completely left that out, begs the question, does she not have any evidence to refute his version of the events?"
http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-505263_...-case-against-zimmerman-questioned/?tag=stack
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Thanks for posting the link. After reading the SYG statues and case law, I totally agree with RH. The following,making the punk comment, or whether GZ had a serious injury or not is irrelevant.
 
gxm said:
Another member, can't recall if it was Papa or Doc, offered an interesting point. GZ was a frequent 911 caller and perhaps, on previous occasions, other "suspicious persons" had disappeared before LE arrived. IMO, that's the most plausible reason I've heard as to why GZ might have decided to follow and detain TM. There's still room for reasonable doubt, but that's the closest to convincing I've heard yet.

But, IMO, even with the reholstering of his weapon which, although I'm not a gun owner, I presume becomes an automatic response, GZ's behavior after shooting TM can be explained by shock. IMO, GZ is still in shock. He looked so small and meek standing before the judge, and as one commenter noted "gone." And if he can claim a head injury, he may be able to get anything he said to the cops tossed out (at least that's what others have suggested, not sure if it's within FL's legal limits). I know my crazy ex-DIL successfully used a head injury as an excuse for a hit and run in DC.

IMO, the SP needs a lot more evidence than what's revealed in the charging documents if she wants to nail him with murder 2. Her case seems pretty weak to me, so I hope she's hiding her aces.

JMO, OMO, and :moo:
Click to expand...

Small and meek standing before the judge? I bet Trayvon looked small and meek laying dead in his coffin. Zimmerman is a man who has absolutely no remorse whatsoever for what he has done to Trayvon Martin. If he was in shock, it was because he was arrested. Remember he said he thought it was all going to blow over. He intended that particular "a$$hole" wasn't going to get away and he made sure that wasn't going to happen. I bet Zimmerman wasn't so small and meek when he was standing there with his gun aimed at Trayvon's chest. He was a big man, he had a gun, and he meant he was going to use it.

As far as the evidence in this case, I didn't realize that a prosecutor had to lay out their entire case in their probable cause affidavit.



~jmo~
 
Yoda said:
Good morning all! I do not know anything about the Sunshine law. Will all the records be released now that he has been charged? Will that included all phone calls, and any evidence gathered by LE? Statements from witnesses, family, video from stores, etc? Tia
Click to expand...

Apparently not at once, anyway.

During the proceedings, it was agreed between the defense and prosecution that records in the case would be sealed.
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http://content.usatoday.com/communi...ty-plea-in-court-hearing-today/1#.T4rYh9WS984
 
magnolia said:
Thanks for posting the link. After reading the SYG statues and case law, I totally agree with RH. The following,making the punk comment, or whether GZ had a serious injury or not is irrelevant.
Click to expand...

He doesn't need any injuries at all to claim he feared for his life or was trying to prevent bodily injury. And if AC wants to take on SYG law-shouldn't one take the law on before charging people under the existing one? And even if the law is changed why would that apply to Zimmerman if he was acting in accordance with existing law?
 
jjenny said:
He doesn't need any injuries at all to claim he feared for his life or was trying to prevent bodily injury. And if AC wants to take on SYG law-shouldn't one take the law on before charging people under the existing one? And even if the law is changed why would that apply to Zimmerman if he was acting in accordance with existing law?
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But if he doesn't have the injuries he said he did, that means he's lying.
 
who said:
But if he doesn't have the injuries he said he did, that means he's lying.
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We really don't know what he said about his injuries since he hasn't talked. And police did indicate he had blood on the back of head and nose in the report.
 
Zimmerman told them he lost sight of Trayvon and was walking back to his SUV when Trayvon approached him from the left rear, and they exchanged words.

Trayvon asked Zimmerman if he had a problem. Zimmerman said no and reached for his cell phone, he told police. Trayvon then said, "Well, you do now" or something similar and punched Zimmerman in the nose, according to the account he gave police.

Zimmerman fell to the ground and Trayvon got on top of him and began slamming his head into the sidewalk, he told police.

Zimmerman began yelling for help.
Click to expand...

http://articles.orlandosentinel.com..._1_miami-schools-punch-unarmed-black-teenager

The police state there the account is accurate as to what he told them.
 
jjenny said:
We really don't know what he said about his injuries since he hasn't talked. And police did indicate he had blood on the back of head and nose in the report.
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Do we know for a fact that none of that blood was Trayvon's?

Re the bolded: If we don't know these things, how can it be said that it was defintely SYG or self defense? How can it be said that GZ was only arrested due to public pressure, or political aspirations, as opposed to, there is and was always probable cause for an arrest?

Not directed at you specifically but, does Trayon have the right to due process as well, does he get get to have his day in court? Seems to me that Trayvon has already been convicted by some out there, without him having his right to due process, or without the need to present evidence in a court of law.

JMHO
 
Nancy Grace interview with Angela Corey's regarding "Stand your Ground...

GRACE: “In a case like this when you are confronted with force — let’s just say for argument’s sake Zimmerman’s story is true, a 17-year-old hits him. Standing your ground, is he allowed under the law to shoot him dead?”

COREY: “Nancy, our laws are very clear that it has to be a forcible felony and that a reasonable person would have to believe that deadly force is necessary as opposed to just physical force, fighting back and that sort of thing. I’ve prosecuted a woman who shot her husband and killed him because he slapped her, and we argued that was not deadly force and she was convicted and sent to state prison.”

Corey made two very clear points here. The first is that, in order for "stand your ground" to work, the dead person must have been in the process of committing a "forcible felony" when the struggle happened. In other words, Trayvon needed to be engaged in a crime such as an assult on Zimmerman.We now know from the probable cause affadavit that Corey is using a statement from the friend Trayvon was speaking with on the phone at the time his confrontation with Zimmerman started.According to that witness, Zimmerman approached Trayvon, which means Trayvon would not have been engaged in a felony at the time the struggle started.Secondly, it appears from the charge that Corey simply isn't convinced that whatever happened between Zimmerman and Trayvon justified the use of deadly force. Maybe she will argue that Zimmerman could have protected himself with some lesser level of self-defense.She mentioned the example of the woman who was slapped by her husband and retaliated with a gunshot. That women was convicted because Corey convinced a jury that she wasn't justified in using deadly force.Of course, that is a very subjective call. I would expect Zimmerman's attorney to argue that Trayvon was so aggressive that Zimmerman feared for his life and, in the heat of the moment, didn't see any other way out other than to pull out his gun and fire.It will all play out in court. But for all the armchair detectives out there, these are two points worth considering.

http://articles.orlandosentinel.com...dly-force-physical-force-second-degree-murder
 
jjenny said:
Well that might be her interpretation of the SYG law but I don't see anything in the law itself that says the other person has to be engaging in forcible felony. All it says the person has to reasonably fear death or great bodily injury.
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I think Ms. Corey knows very well how to interpret the law.

COREY: “Nancy, our laws are very clear that it has to be a forcible felony and that a reasonable person would have to believe that deadly force is necessary as opposed to just physical force, fighting back and that sort of thing.

Based on what Corey is saying, Zimmerman is going to have a hard time proving that Trayvon was committing a forcible felony that justified his actions. I suspect Zimmerman better have plenty of medical documentation to back up his claim.

~jmo~
 
Adrienne37 said:
I think Ms. Corey knows very well how to interpret the law.

COREY: “Nancy, our laws are very clear that it has to be a forcible felony and that a reasonable person would have to believe that deadly force is necessary as opposed to just physical force, fighting back and that sort of thing.

~jmo~
Click to expand...

Well in all the discussions about this law I haven't seen anyone else interpreting it that way. Under SYG law, a person can prevent bodily injury/death OR commission of forcible felony. It doesn't say the person only can prevent commission of forcible felony to be covered under this law.
 
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