So the State initiated that Alford Plea?
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madeleine
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were they offered the deal separately or as a group(sorry for the stupid way i am asking this,dunno how to put it)?
i mean,could one of them have said yes and two others no for ex?
Cause it's been said that Baldwin wanted to refuse and wait for new evidence (which IF true is very telling) but accepted for DE's sake.
i mean,could one of them have said yes and two others no for ex?
Cause it's been said that Baldwin wanted to refuse and wait for new evidence (which IF true is very telling) but accepted for DE's sake.
I'm not exactly sure, but I believe it was a one deal for all or no deal at all type of thing. Yes, initially Jason refused because he wanted a new trial. However, he was advised by his lawyers that they would have to wait several more years for a new trial, and due to Damien's rapidly deteriorating health, he took the plea. I'm sure it was a difficult decision to make, but I don't think he regrets it now.
Cappuccino
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This is obviously quoted from a non site, and when something has an opening sentence as inaccurate as that, I don't bother reading any further. The Supreme Court ordered an evidentiary hearing because the Arkansas DNA statute under which the testing was carried out clearly entitled them to one. Celebrity supporters and all star defense teams had zilch to do with it.
madeleine
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@bold and I am glad you brought this up...you are referring to Pam H. and Byers,right?Dunno why their statements (last I saw them on the A.Jones show talking about the case) don't sound okay to me.I never found these 2 trustworthy....and this is not a game (3 kids were killed,THEIR kids)...for so many years they made such a circus on TV against the wm3,now they changed their minds....do they want the reward money or something?do they like the media attention?Sorry but I don't trust them and I don't know what their REAL intentions are.
Cappuccino
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There was no reward on offer back in 2007 when Byers and Ms Hobbs changed their mind about the case, and as they are both parents of the victims they could have gotten just as much media attention by continuing to say the three in prison were guilty.
Most likely their REAL intentions are to find out who killed their sons.
madeleine
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Dunno about Byers...I still have suspicions re him....why did he give that knife to the HBO crew,playing games ?He also was the one who reported the boys missing and wanted to be close to the investigation....if you ask me,out of the 3 victims,it looks like CB was the real target....he was also the one who presented old injuries.....he bled to death so probably was dumped in the ditch AFTER he died (unlike the other 2 who drowned)....
from the jivepuppy site:
Dr. Peretti notes a dramatic distinction. While Stevie Branch and Michael Moore show contusions around their binding abrasions on each limb, Christopher Byers has only a faint contusion on his left wrist and ankle. His right wrist "was not surrounded by contusion" and there is no mention of a contusion adjacent to his binding on his right ankle. This suggests Stevie Branch and Michael Moore were tied up with both shoelaces when alive while Chris Byers was not bound on his right side until after death or, at least, unconsciousness. He was bound on the left side with a white lace, on his right side with a black one.
Furthermore, Moore and Branch are noted as having wounds on their hands, indicative of defense. Byers did not.
makes sense and makes you wonder.....
also the way their clothes were found (and so many items missing ).....makes me wonder if that was indeed a crime scene and not a dump site.....removing all those shoelaces from the shoes,tying the victims like they were found....takes some TIME.....
maybe it was indeed a sick punishment gone bad and IMO TH is not the only suspect on my mind....something is wrong with JMB but I can't really put my finger on what...will take a break now....
from the jivepuppy site:
Dr. Peretti notes a dramatic distinction. While Stevie Branch and Michael Moore show contusions around their binding abrasions on each limb, Christopher Byers has only a faint contusion on his left wrist and ankle. His right wrist "was not surrounded by contusion" and there is no mention of a contusion adjacent to his binding on his right ankle. This suggests Stevie Branch and Michael Moore were tied up with both shoelaces when alive while Chris Byers was not bound on his right side until after death or, at least, unconsciousness. He was bound on the left side with a white lace, on his right side with a black one.
Furthermore, Moore and Branch are noted as having wounds on their hands, indicative of defense. Byers did not.
makes sense and makes you wonder.....
also the way their clothes were found (and so many items missing ).....makes me wonder if that was indeed a crime scene and not a dump site.....removing all those shoelaces from the shoes,tying the victims like they were found....takes some TIME.....
maybe it was indeed a sick punishment gone bad and IMO TH is not the only suspect on my mind....something is wrong with JMB but I can't really put my finger on what...will take a break now....
madeleine
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very enlightening site indeed
especially this page
http://www.jivepuppi.com/john_mark_byers_3.html
maybe the 2 babies (CB and SB) are in a better place right now
it's way more creepier and disturbing what I read about these 2 step"dads" than reading DE's medical(psychiatric) records....honestly....these 2 disgust me and IMO both were capable of such a crime....liars......whine,whine,I never spanked/hurt my son.....gmab:furious:
especially this page
http://www.jivepuppi.com/john_mark_byers_3.html
maybe the 2 babies (CB and SB) are in a better place right now
it's way more creepier and disturbing what I read about these 2 step"dads" than reading DE's medical(psychiatric) records....honestly....these 2 disgust me and IMO both were capable of such a crime....liars......whine,whine,I never spanked/hurt my son.....gmab:furious:
madeleine
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http://www.trutv.com/library/crime/notorious_murders/famous/memphis/suspects_10.html
lthough there were many items of evidence that could have pointed to John Mark Byers as the murderer of the three boys, he was never considered by police as a suspect nor was he ever thoroughly investigated. It is interesting to note that John Mark Byers was on very friendly terms with the investigating officers and was a drug informant for the WMPD at the time of the murders. Could bias in favor of Byers and against Echols on the part of the investigating police have blinded them to any evidence which might have led the investigation away from Damien and toward Byers?
Finally, the tennis shoe imprint which was found on the creek bank near the bodies, did not match with any footwear owned by Damien, Jessie or Jason. This fact would again suggest that police should have been concentrating their investigations in another direction.
good question!
maybe it explains why the cops did what they did and why the "investigation" turned into a bad joke....it could also explain why the parents weren't properly investigated,unbelievable since we are talking about such a violent family history...
lthough there were many items of evidence that could have pointed to John Mark Byers as the murderer of the three boys, he was never considered by police as a suspect nor was he ever thoroughly investigated. It is interesting to note that John Mark Byers was on very friendly terms with the investigating officers and was a drug informant for the WMPD at the time of the murders. Could bias in favor of Byers and against Echols on the part of the investigating police have blinded them to any evidence which might have led the investigation away from Damien and toward Byers?
Finally, the tennis shoe imprint which was found on the creek bank near the bodies, did not match with any footwear owned by Damien, Jessie or Jason. This fact would again suggest that police should have been concentrating their investigations in another direction.
good question!
maybe it explains why the cops did what they did and why the "investigation" turned into a bad joke....it could also explain why the parents weren't properly investigated,unbelievable since we are talking about such a violent family history...
Cappuccino
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Byers is the only parent who ever was looked at as a suspect by the original police investigation. Whether or not you think he was looked at carefully enough is another matter, but its completely inaccurate of that site to say he was never considered a suspect at all.
Nova
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And how much time have you spent in maximum security? On death row?
How is it you seem to think you know what you would do? (I haven't been in prison either, but I imagine that after umpteen years, I wouldn't want to roll the dice with a new trial.)
It's not as if the WM3 were under the illusion that innocent people aren't convicted under our system. They knew all too well that innocence is no protection!
Nova
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And you're saying what then? That Echols should have risked his life in the hope that somehow the corrupt Arkansas LE would finally become honest and investigate the murders rather than merely covering up past mistakes?
That's a lot to ask of somebody who has spent most of his life on death row. The victims were not HIS children, after all. I'm not sure why he or Baldwin or Misskelley have any more obligation to find the real killers than you or I do.
madeleine
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It's not an obligation,who says that but
1.they CAN,I can't
2.they said so(keep fighting to CLEAR their names) in their press conference after they were released
http://austinist.com/2012/10/26/passion_and_perseverance_austinist.php
But she's still obviously very connected to the case and I assume she's working on y'all's steps forward in exonerating yourselves?
Exactly. You know, doing this and having to talk about this case all the time, it's not fun. [Pause.] It's not easy, as a matter of fact for me, I hate it. I hate it so much that I can't even articulate it. You don't get a chance to heal because you constantly have to rip the wound open.
But if we don't keep doing this, then there will be no exoneration. If we don't keep asking people, "Please read the book. Please see the documentary. Please look us up online. Please write letters." If we don't keep talking about it, keeping it in the public eye, then they'll just sweep it under the rug.
Right.
And what we have to do, is make the state of Arkansas understand that it doesn't matter where we are; if we're in New York, if we're in Salem, if we're in Los Angeles, if we're in New Zealand, wherever the hell we are, we're not going away until you do the right thing. Until you exonerate us, until you put the person in prison who's supposed to be in prison, and until the people who did this to us are held responsible, we are going to be here doing this every single day until it's done. Because we can't rest, we don't have closure, we're sort of hanging in this limbo place that requires us to keep fighting
madeleine
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I can understand a false confession (police threats,cops smarter than you,taking advantage,etc)
But why would you repeat the same things to your own defence lawyer if those are just lies?:waitasec:How do you explain that?It's either you did it and that's the truth or you are not a normal person (and this has nothing to do with being smart or dumb) and if you're not a normal person then maybe you are also capable of other things.
No matter how much you defend this guys you gotta admit there's something wrong with one of them and it has nothing to do with him being....like you like to call it ,*advertiser censored* ....
But why would you repeat the same things to your own defence lawyer if those are just lies?:waitasec:How do you explain that?It's either you did it and that's the truth or you are not a normal person (and this has nothing to do with being smart or dumb) and if you're not a normal person then maybe you are also capable of other things.
No matter how much you defend this guys you gotta admit there's something wrong with one of them and it has nothing to do with him being....like you like to call it ,*advertiser censored* ....
Cappuccino
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Anybody who's ever given post conviction testimony against co-defendants will have run through that testimony with their lawyer first. That's what Jessie was preparing to do after he'd been sentenced to spend the rest of his life in prison.
Nova
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Of course you can ask questions. See if you can highlight the question in this quote from your previous post (I don't see one):
(Emphasis in original.) I seriously doubt there is anything "convenient" about spending nearly 20 years in an Arkansas prison. What amazes me is that people can sit in the comfort of their easy chairs and judge the WM3 for getting out any way they could!
Nova
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Of course you can work to find the real killers of the three children. Most of the evidence is online in one place or another and the remaining defense evidence will probably be released eventually.
Work away! Move to Arkansas. You won't be the first.
***
The word "normal" doesn't mean anything unless you define it.
***
Jesse Misskelley did not hire his own lawyers. They were appointed for him by the same judge who worked with the police and prosecutors. Meanwhile, he was entirely dependent on jailers who were almost certainly promising better treatment if he told the story the State wanted told. It shouldn't surprise us if early on Jesse trusted the State Troopers more than his own defense attorney; he is not someone who was likely to understand legal ethics and procedures.
The problem--which has turned out to be a blessing--was he also wasn't bright enough to keep the "official" story straight.
madeleine
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this is what we do here,share opinions
it's not me who claimed I will get to the bottom of who killed them,the WM3 did + it's not me who received all that money for further DNA testing,they did
so what,this is a forum where I have only two extreme options?yeah they are guilty,nope they are not(and thats it)?seems that no matter what I say someone is getting very upset and rude or is taking it way too personal
Nova
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And why would that be such a bad thing? Working to free innocent men needs no other justification.