AZ - Isabel Mercedes Celis, 6, Tucson, 20 April 2012 - # 7

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But The UK also their share of sensational high-profile cases. From what I'm reading, these cases got massive coverage over there, so it's safe to say that MSM was reporting on them too. Maddie McCann, James Bulger, Rosie Palmer, Holly Wells, Jessica Chapman, Leanne Tiernan, Kelly Anne Bates, Suzanne Capper, Victoria Climbie, Milly Dowler, Danielle Jones, Rhys Jones, Ben Kinsella, Sarah Payne, Tia Rigg, Hannah Williams. What's the difference between those cases and "our" high-profile cases? I'm reading the circumstances of the cases I referenced here, and it's hard for me to think that there wasn't sensationalism in the reporting, or the reason why the cases made the news.

True-but my husband who is from Manchester, England thinks there is MUCH more coverage here-they certainly don't have any Nancy Grace type shows that are on every night.
 
I agree that the dogs should have been a deterrent. It is very difficult for me to imagine dogs who neighbors report do bark when someone walks by the house, to not bark in the middle of the night? But then bark "going nuts" at 6:30 am? It just makes no sense to me.

That said, the court records are not for barking, but for dogs at large.

The dogs were at large on April 13th, and there are multiple court filings for the dogs at large without proof of vaccination and license. These citations were for the incident on the 13th. It is a misdemeanor in AZ.

Violation of noise ordinance for loud animals is a different process, from what I read on the Tucson Animal Care site.

If the incidents were reported, it sounds like there may not have been some friendly neighbours (??) I wonder what else p'd off some neighbours of the Celis family?

I keep thinking of Breann Rodriguez. She was snatched whilst she was riding her bike. Her killer allegedly got upset because he caught her climbing his ladder or something like that. So he takes a little girl and murders her. This guy, IIRC, had 3 kids of his own. I'm not sure if autopsy reports were released in her case and whether or not they showed she was sexually assaulted but I would be shocked if she wasn't, imo

Any creepy neighbours who would want to harm the Celis family for whatever reason? Dogs or other?
 
I missed this video the other day (4/25) but just watched and noticed at 1:16 the dog in the yard of the Celis home.
Also at 1:42 a report of a young neighbor being questioned by LE who then went to the Celis house with his father and went in and out of the courtyard when they aren't there? Weird vibe about that. You can hear the LE officer questioning them outside the courtyard door. She says "Do you live here or what are you doing here?"

http://abcnews.go.com/US/missing-tu...ce-videos-hold/story?id=16210060#.T5z0UKttqSo

The father and son entering the home is very odd. Were they there to offer help? The videos says the son was tensely interviewed by LE. Then he and his dad show up at the Celis home and go right in the courtyard. It's almost like they wanted a reason for their fingerprints and scent to be there. Was this before or after the search dogs worked the home? I wonder if the Celis' have had trouble with this kid before? Why would LE intensely interview him similar to the way they interviewed the RSO neighbor.

Or maybe the kid saw something that night, or knows a pervy kid, and wanted to make sure the Celis family knew about it. That almost makes more sense.
 
I also think, when it comes to accidental death, there are two "types"....one is a legitimate accident- she fell and hit her head, got hit with a baseball, drowned, etc. In that case it is, I agree, hard to discern why a parent would cover that up (looking at you, Casey).

The other type of accident is an accident that occurred in the course of abuse - sexual or physical. Quite different, imo. While I don't mean to imply we have any reason to suspect Isa was being abused, I don't think it is that far fetched to speculate that someone (not necessarily a parent) accidentally killed her during the course of abuse and rather than admit to accidental death AND abuse, staged a cover up. I'm not saying that's my theory, but that's more what I think of when it comes to an accidental death theory.
 
Thank you, eileen.

I have seen that unfounded theory for many years and it is just speculation. There really was no evidence to base that speculation on either.

And the unknown male DNA found in her panties doesnt comport with that theory,imo.

It's an unsolved case, so any theory is going to be speculation. But it doesn't make sense to me that you don't believe that parents could accidentally kill their child and then cover it up, but you'll believe that an intruder would murder a child in their home, while the rest of the family slept. You posted that you can't find any cases where parents covered up the accidental death of the child, but how many cases do you know where a child was murdered in their home by an intruder?
 
Well, the CELIS family's dogs are tenacious and predictable enough to be a menace to the neighborhood, as evidenced by the multiple court filings against the family for barking.

Three big, loud, noisy dogs. Outside most of the time, says the neighbor. Sounds like a pretty big deterrent to me.

I never read that they were tenacious. Where did you read that? In fact even when they were out of the yard, I havent read they ever tried to attack or ever bit anyone.

They sound to be very typical dogs who bark when someone passes by close to the property.

Were they even outside that night or inside? Did the mom put them out for the day when she got up to go to work?

They sure werent like the aggressive Pit Bull that Steve Greone's son had who thought no stranger could ever get by his dog without being eaten alive. Of course he was flat wrong and didnt know his dog as well as he thought because that is exactly what happened. They also had another very large dog running loose inside the Greone home too besides the Pit Bull. It did not deter Duncan from murdering the three there or from taking Shasta and Dylan with him. In fact he said both dogs ran from the room and stayed under the kitchen table the entire time he was inside the home.

IMO
 
Is there a presser scheduled for today? If so, what time? Thanks.
 
The father and son entering the home is very odd. Were they there to offer help? The videos says the son was tensely interviewed by LE. Then he and his dad show up at the Celis home and go right in the courtyard. It's almost like they wanted a reason for their fingerprints and scent to be there. Was this before or after the search dogs worked the home? I wonder if the Celis' have had trouble with this kid before? Why would LE intensely interview him similar to the way they interviewed the RSO neighbor.

Or maybe the kid saw something that night, or knows a pervy kid, and wanted to make sure the Celis family knew about it. That almost makes more sense.

I would believe that ALL neighbors have been intensively questioned by LE. MOO They are all potential witnesses. MOO

Being that they are neighbors,it seems quite likely that they would have been in the yard,and house before.No need to place their prints and scent there. MOO
Possibly they were going to offer support to the family. MOO
Although, it has been reported that the family is not there. When did these two enter the courtyard of the house ? TIA...
 
Marazul, I think we have your dogs brother!

The dogs at this point just don't say much to me in terms of the perp or perps because of how our dog barks, and every other dog on our small street bark at night, (and there are many)!

Sometimes there is a chorus of dogs barking at night, and inevitably when I check on the situation, they are barking at a cat, possum, or something as mundane as the street light (I kid you not)!

Our dogs have varying barks. There is one bark for other dogs or a dog walking past the house, then there is the very excited high-pitched bark if someone walks past the house or up to the porch or back door, then there is the vicious bark, accompanied by growling.
 
Someone asked for transcript of yesterday's presser. I have not seen news outlets provide transcripsts. Some of the videos get uploaded, but not all.
KVOA did post the video of yesterday's presser
http://www.kvoa.com/videos/saturday-2pm-news-conference-on-isabel-celis-search-efforts/

I'm still a bit confused about what he says about the people in the video.

He first assures everyone that the ghostly figure was known about and thanks everyone for letting TPD know.

Then he seems to say the Individual self-identified.

I would then think that the group of 4 people would know each other right? So if one of them was the self-identified, then surely TPD would by now have spoken to the other members of the group?

Am I making sense here?
 
It's an unsolved case, so any theory is going to be speculation. But it doesn't make sense to me that you don't believe that parents could accidentally kill their child and then cover it up, but you'll believe that an intruder would murder a child in their home, while the rest of the family slept. You posted that you can't find any cases where parents covered up the accidental death of the child, but how many cases do you know where a child was murdered in their home by an intruder?

I am sorry it doesnt make sense to you but I can only go by what makes sense to me.

If I had read of an actual solved case where a child had really died by accident then removed from their home, I certainly would consider it a possibility. But I searched high and low during the Anthony case to find one verifiable case where it had ever happened before and found none.

Now of course, because I have been keeping up with criminal cases for three decades, I do know a predator can come into the home with adults and other children being there. Several of the other homowners also had dogs...even vicious ones.......yet none of the people in the home heard a thing... when the child was being kidnapped from their bedroom by a pedophile or when the predator was invading their home.

So of course it makes more sense to me that a predator did this because I have read about cases and watched trials where it has happened before.

imo
 
My Australian shepherd 'Adji" will let strangers/adults shake hands when they come up on the porch but he went after a man last week for trying to shake the 4 YO GS hand. Scared the bejeebus outa' me! I know I need to remedy that but now I am not sure I want to. He sure was not going to let that stranger touch the baby at all! Definitely going to have socialize the dog more with strangers and the baby to prevent a dog bite suit but wow, I am torn about how to handle it. I suppose even if I teach him to tolerate strangers touching the baby he would learn when the baby is in danger or not. In Adji's defense, the man did move quickly toward the baby. Not slow and calculated as if to ask permission. Sooo torn about this one.

Sorry for rambling. Maybe I should C/P this post to the pets forum.

I wouldn't train that out.
I would put him away when it is an acceptable stranger.
That being said I have German Shepherd that would rip someone a new one if they broke in, and a Malamute that would flip out if a dog was in her yard but might not get up from a nap for a two legged visitor.
 
I'm still a bit confused about what he says about the people in the video.

He first assures everyone that the ghostly figure was known about and thanks everyone for letting TPD know.

Then he seems to say the Individual self-identified.

I would then think that the group of 4 people would know each other right? So if one of them was the self-identified, then surely TPD would by now have spoken to the other members of the group?

Am I making sense here?


Yes, you are making sense.
The person he mentioned who self-identified was one of the five walkers, and TPD hoped to get in touch with the other 4 through the self-identifier.

The figure behind the wall was known to them before they released the video.

It is rumored on local news pages that TPD had this video for quite a few days before they released it.

In the presser on Friday, when they released it, a poster on the previous thread seemed to hear LE say that they had contact with anyone else in video, and were only looking for these five as possible witnesses simply because they were in the area during the hours between 11 pm and 8 am.

I hope that helps.
 
Did you guys see this video of the neighbor who I think it says was questioned extensively and then are seen going in and out of the celis courtyard. It is about 1:40 in the video.

http://abcnews.go.com/US/missing-tu...ce-videos-hold/story?id=16210060#.T52K_9nh58E

Thank you, dimples.

Yes, I saw that video early this morning on another site and it made me livid.

I cant stand looky loos who think they have a right to come on someone's private property when the homeowners arent even there.

They are dispicable, imo, and I hope LE grilled them good and told them to keep their sorry butts off of other people's property.

IMO
 
I'm still a bit confused about what he says about the people in the video.

He first assures everyone that the ghostly figure was known about and thanks everyone for letting TPD know.

Then he seems to say the Individual self-identified.

I would then think that the group of 4 people would know each other right? So if one of them was the self-identified, then surely TPD would by now have spoken to the other members of the group?

Am I making sense here?

I was confused about that too. I think and I'm only guessing, what he meant was that the individual who ended up coming forward, self-identified by coming forward vs. the police finding him on their own. He had the opportunity to say the lurking person was now clear and he didn't say that, from what I gather. I got the impression it was one of the five. Does that make sense?
 
I was confused about that too. I think and I'm only guessing, what he meant was that the individual who ended up coming forward, self-identified by coming forward vs. the police finding him on their own. He had the opportunity to say the lurking person was now clear and he didn't say that, from what I gather. I got the impression it was one of the five. Does that make sense?

I think you are right. It was one of the five that was asked to come forward. I wonder if he knew all the other people or they all just left the club at the same time and were walking in the same direction.

I still say the most interesting thing LE did was they did NOT ask the mysterous man in white to come forward. Only the 5 seen in a group.

IMO
 
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