British student murdered in Perugia, 3 suspects

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Emily Booth said:
I've been following this crime since day one when it was posted at Steve Huff's blog. We had an international group of commenters following this crime back then. I'm very happy w/ the verdict. The Italians arrived at the correct conclusion. Justice was served.
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I did too Emily and remember posting with you there.

Guilty. Guilty. Guilty. I agree. I am glad for this verdict.
 
kitbits said:
And the irony is that Europeans can be just as racist! I'm thinking of, oh, I don't know...Spanish football fans who black up & heckle Afro-Caribbean players on several occasions. I'm thinking of, oh, say Jean-Marie le Pen & his National Front or the British National Party (BNP). And let me not forget co-workers who use terms like 'Paki' or 'Chinky'...UGH!!!!! :furious:

I could go on, but you get the picture.

Just because there are no Jim Crow laws, etc, doesn't mean that racist and stereotypical behaviours aren't rampant, and that's true for any country. Europe isn't always the enlightened utopia it likes to make itself out to be. And I'm saying this as an American ex-pat living in the UK, btw.

However, having said that, I am not disagreeing with you. Just pointing out my personal observations over the past several years.
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I'm with you. My parents are from Europe so I am well aware of the history of racism there as well. Le Pen in particular galls me.
However, in the last fifty years or so, Europe did not have the same kind of state-sanctioned laws based on race that we did.
That is now starting to change due to an anti-immigrant backlash over there. For example, a new-nazi party is getting a toe-hold in Hungarian politics at present.
Nevertheless, we are known as a racist nation in a blatant way by other countries. In Western Europe, blacks were not discriminated against legally as they were here (except in Germany), during the height of U.S. segregation.
As a side note, Spaniards are about as un-PC as anyone can get. Nicknames are given often based on physical or other characteristics such as "Gordo" or fatty and "Juan el enano" or John the dwarf. They often use race in jest in a way that would appall modern Americans but they would not dream of actual discrimination or hate crimes, etc, for the most part and are sickened by what they perceive to be on-going racism a la the lack of response to poor and/or black victims of hurricane Katrina.
So, I understand the reputation we have over there and why they may feel we would rather have some black guy found accused than a cute, white American girl.
Tha being said, I do not believe that is the primary motivation for many who support AK's innocence.
 
Mia said:
Yes, the mafia is from Italy and has been prevalent there over the years, as it has been here. But to say the Italian justice system has not attempted to control the problem the best they can (with the evidence available) and prosecute those responsible for mafia crimes is just not true. After the Ciaculli massacre, in 1963, right around the time of what is considered to be the 'first big mafia war' when a bunch of policemen were killed trying to defuse a car bomb actually meant for another mobster, almost 2000 mafioso were arrested, charged and convicted of thousands of crimes. Then in 1967 there was the huge trial of mafioso which centered on their involvement in the heroin trade (though admittedly evidence was very thin and all were acquitted). More recently there was the Maxi trial, in the mid 80s, which resulted in over 300 convictions of mafioso. Heck, in the 1920s Mussolini sent one of his top commanders to Sicily to combat the problems with the mafia, and the guy he sent was known for his tough-as-nails, iron-fisted tactics against mafioso. And these are only a couple of examples.

Just because the mafia came from Italy does NOT mean the Italian officials have just allowed the violence and racketeering to go on - the Italian government, over the years, has spent a mint trying to combat these criminals. No, they haven't 'solved' the problem yet, but has America 'solved' the drug problem here? No. That doesn't mean America isn't trying to fight it as best they can though. (Not that I believe the drug war does any good at all, and I'm for legalization/non-criminalization, but that's another story and entirely off-topic).

Finally, to compare the problem of the mafioso to Amanda Knox being convicted is ludicrous. One is a very sophisticated, clandestine group of very organized criminals with a wealth of money at their hands, the other a young female who murdered her roommate. Though they are/were, I guess, both dealt with by Italy's justice system, it makes no sense to say BECAUSE Italy's justice system has not been successful in eradicating the mafia THEN that same justice system must be entirely incompetent when trying Amanda Knox in the murder of Meredith Kercher.

ETA: Where are all the people sticking up for the boyfriend Sollecito? He's a young person just starting out in life, just like Amanda. Where's the sympathy for him? Oh wait, there is none, because he's not American. If Amanda was "railroaded" because she is American, that means Italy "railroaded" Sollecito...why? Because he's Italian? Really?
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Pretty good points made, especially the last paragraph. Sollecito is one of their own and yet he too was convicted. Makes one wonder.
 
Originally Posted by Isabella
I agree there is a difference in where you come from on whether you believe the verdict or not. It seems to me..that Americans..or some would rather put all the blame on a black guy from the Ivory Coast rather than accept a American girl could have been involved in this. And then because she is..then its like well Amandas not guilty its just the Italians are corrupt blah blah blah.

[B said:
justbeachy[/B];4527717]I completely disagree with this. I think we all know that cute, sweet AMERICAN girls can be evil. This isn't about blaming it on a "black guy from the Ivory Coast" at all. It is about the case and the evidence and the way the evidence was handled. Your comments really rubbed me the wrong way, but, just like me, you are entitled to your opinion.
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IMHO you are both correct because all types of people exist and their views will differ, Yes many will say the black guy, and other will say the evidence is not there....but knowing the code of law in that region is key. I do not know it but, seems that accessory to murder is punishable same as murder in the first degree. So they all got a very similar verdict.

I have not followed the case throughout the 2 years, but only in the very beginning and end. so I am not knowing how they came about a verdict. but it seems to me that many feel it was not a well done job and as a result justice was not served.
But if all 3 were participating on some level regardless as to who did the deed? they are all punished. I am just saying, and I am sure many are outraged especially her family.

RIP Meridith
 
gigi103 said:
I realize we only saw a tiny portion of AK's statement before the jury went to deliberate, but I found the piece we did see incredibly odd. The whole bit about "people wonder how I cope," and her concern about being forced to wear the mask of a murderer. I understand that's she's fighting for her life so her thoughts are on her own survival, but... The intense "me" focus was really off-putting in that context.

I can't understand why she hasn't been advised better. The way she dressed throughout the trial, the constant smiling for the cameras... This stuff doesn't make her guilty, but I think it really hurt her. It is reminiscent of Casey Anthony in that I watch her behavior and think, how can you ACT better? Sarah Johnson (I may have the name wrong) who killed her parents in Idaho a couple years back is another example. The funeral plans were cramping her style, etc. It's striking how different the behavior of these women is from, say, Susan Smith who didn't give an Oscar caliber performance but at least went through the motions of emulating appropriate behavior.
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I wonder about that too. It raises huge red flags for me. As an attorney, one of my main goals at trial is controlling the appearance and attitudes of my clients, and I'm in family law! I even have a section in my retainer agreement which mandates that they have to follow my lead regarding personal appearance/clothes at court. Surely AK and her team, including that famous American defense attorney (former prosecutor on NG all the time), could have advised her and/or ponied up some cash for some simple, conservative clothing. Also, I have to imagine she was counseled as to her demeanor in court. After all, her antics were splashed all over the news, constantly. So, she must have been aware of how she was being perceived. That she could not change her demeanor accordingly and present a more sober, saddened aspect makes me think she is nutty and/or narcisstic ala casey Anthony.
 
iluvmua said:
so does Amanda only get to stay in jail for 2 years? or am I missing something?
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They anticipate that She will be there another 2 years before another trial.
she has already been there, 2 years.
 
gitana1 said:
I wonder about that too. It raises huge red flags for me. As an attorney, one of my main goals at trial is controlling the appearance and attitudes of my clients, and I'm in family law! I even have a section in my retainer agreement which mandates that they have to follow my lead regarding personal appearance/clothes at court. Surely AK and her team, including that famous American defense attorney (former prosecutor on NG all the time), could have advised her and/or ponied up some cash for some simple, conservative clothing. Also, I have to imagine she was counseled as to her demeanor in court. After all, her antics were splashed all over the news, constantly. So, she must have been aware of how she was being perceived. That she could not change her demeanor accordingly and present a more sober, saddened aspect makes me think she is nutty and/or narcisstic ala casey Anthony.
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amen! too bad you couldn't have coached her (if that was remotely possible given her personality).

She was one hot mess during the entire trial in my honest opinon. (and I sooo felt this way that I typed it out long hand instead of IMHO. She was a hot mess the entire way thru.. and I bet her personality issues have the MOST to do with it. A lawyer cannot control facial expressions to date. The clothing and hair.. also pure Amanda Knox.)
 
Just one question if anyone knows, or can point me in the right direction ~ how long will she be in prison? The full 26 years or do they have parole like here in the US? :behindbar
 
songline said:
Originally Posted by Isabella
I agree there is a difference in where you come from on whether you believe the verdict or not. It seems to me..that Americans..or some would rather put all the blame on a black guy from the Ivory Coast rather than accept a American girl could have been involved in this. And then because she is..then its like well Amandas not guilty its just the Italians are corrupt blah blah blah.



IMHO you are both correct because all types of people exist and their views will differ, Yes many will say the black guy, and other will say the evidence is not there....but knowing the code of law in that region is key. I do not know it but, seems that accessory to murder is punishable same as murder in the first degree. So they all got a very similar verdict.

I have not followed the case throughout the 2 years, but only in the very beginning and end. so I am not knowing how they came about a verdict. but it seems to me that many feel it was not a well done job and as a result justice was not served.
But if all 3 were participating on some level regardless as to who did the deed? they are all punished. I am just saying, and I am sure many are outraged especially her family.

RIP Meridith
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In all honesty having followed the case closely ive no doubt the correct verdict was reached. I dont know why her family would be outraged. I mean who raised her to be a liar and not to face up to her own actions? Who shouts the mouth off at the Italians? Yes her family and they are getting sued also apparently.

Yes if all three are involved..they would get the same punishment probably and lets not forget...the theory is that Amanda let them in the house so without her help it could not have happened. Its also believed she helped to clean up and her prints were found on a weapon.

Personally the only people i think have the right to be enraged are the Kerchers and Patrick Lumbaba.
 
songline said:
They anticipate that She will be there another 2 years before another trial.
she has already been there, 2 years.
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There saying here the appeal will probably be the end of next year.
 
Isabella said:
Its also been reported that she threatened a guy with a knife in Italy.

I agree there is a difference in where you come from on whether you believe the verdict or not. It seems to me..that Americans..or some would rather put all the blame on a black guy from the Ivory Coast rather than accept a American girl could have been involved in this. And then because she is..then its like well Amandas not guilty its just the Italians are corrupt blah blah blah.
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bbm
Excuse me? I can't let this one go - not this American.
Didn't they confirm that this guy's semen was found inside the victim? If so, that fact would cast suspicion,
not the color of his skin.

If I have the facts wrong or I'm talking about the wrong guy, I apologize.
 
Woe.be.gone said:
bbm
Excuse me? I can't let this one go - not this American.
Didn't they confirm that this guy's semen was found inside the victim? If so, that fact would cast suspicion,
not the color of his skin.

If I have the facts wrong or I'm talking about the wrong guy, I apologize.
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You are talking about the correct guy yes. And i have no doubt he was there although he claims she consented to have sex. The point i was trying to make is...that some seem all to eager to solely blame Guede for doing this and not to accept that AK and WS was involved even though a neigbour said he heard several feet running away from the apartment. What no one could ever explain to me was tho that if Guede did the crime solo...who did the other feet belong to that was heard running away?
 
Isabella said:
The Italians expect justice to served. I thought living in America you would expect the same.

And no it was Meredith who was screwed for having the misfortune to share a home with her :(
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One thing I don't understand is why some Americans think AK was falsely convicted when the court also convicted the Italian boyfriend - correct?

The conclusion was that they both were involved and both were convicted. Would the Italians put one of their own away in order to falsely punish a young American? That doesn't make sense to me. Now if they had put her away but not him, that would be more cause for alarm, no?
 
Isabella said:
You are talking about the correct guy yes. And i have no doubt he was there although he claims she consented to have sex. The point i was trying to make is...that some seem all to eager to solely blame Guede for doing this and not to accept that AK and WS was involved even though a neigbour said he heard several feet running away from the apartment. What no one could ever explain to me was tho that if Guede did the crime solo...who did the other feet belong to that was heard running away?
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You have watched the case :) can you tell me how is it she was having sex with one guy and two others are also in the room OR did they have sex earlier in the day and and they were just hanging out when AK & WS came to visit :waitasec:
can you please help me out here , thanks.....
 
Most likely after exhausting her appeals--there are 2 levels of appeals, provided a new trial isn't ordered, correct?

she'll be done with appeals in what, 4 years?

By then she'll have served 6 years. I wouldn't be surprised if the prosecution/court agree to reduce her sentence in exchange for a full mea culpa. That is, Foxy Knoxy fully and truthfully (ha, see if she can do that) confess and acknowledge her role in Meredith's murder and her sentence gets reduced. Of course, they'd likely consult Meredith's family on the matter first and provided they had no objections, they'd cut a deal with Amanda to spill all and then maybe cut her sentence in half and kick her free after a decade or so.

The other side of that is they'll likely work on the boyfriend with the same sort of deal--they might even make his sweeter and sooner, if he's willing to confess and explain what happened that night.

Which if the bf beats Amanda to the punch, she won't get any mercy at all. Although that would depend what story the bf told and how verifiable it was--maybe he has a smoking gun piece of physical evidence stashed away somewhere. Or maybe when he tells his story it rings so true and matches the known evidence and facts so well...who knows.
 
Woe.be.gone said:
One thing I don't understand is why some Americans think AK was falsely convicted when the court also convicted the Italian boyfriend - correct?

The conclusion was that they both were involved and both were convicted. Would the Italians put one of their own away in order to falsely punish a young American? That doesn't make sense to me. Now if they had put her away but not him, that would be more cause for alarm, no?
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I totally agree with that and thats what makes me mad about the Senator saying she wants to talk to Hilary Clinton because she thinks the verdict was based on Anti Americans when in fact Amands co accused was a wealthy young Italian and one of there own. I mean the locals cheering the verdict outside the court were Italians and possibly knew the ex boyfriend so i just dont understand how anyone can logically think this verdict was just to get at the Americans :(
 
48 hours is covering this right now, as well as the verdict.
 
songline said:
You have watched the case :) can you tell me how is it she was having sex with one guy and two others are also in the room OR did they have sex earlier in the day and and they were just hanging out when AK & WS came to visit :waitasec:
can you please help me out here , thanks.....
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Well Guede claims that he had consensual sex with Meredith and then went to the bathroom..and whilst in there the other pair killed Meredith and that he was afraid to go and help her. (Yea i know lol) but the one thing i would say maybe..yes his sperm was inside her..but..that could have happened earlier in the day in theory and yet he never did deny he was in the apartment at the time of the murder. He asked for a fast track trial as he thought he was going to get framed by Amanda which after Lumbaba i can understand.

The prosecution claim that it was Amanda who let Guede in the apartment. She denies that she knew Guede before it happened but..the day before Meredith was killed a main claims that he was threatened with a knife by Amanda and that Guede and the bf were with her. He testified to that in court also.
 
thesaint said:
Most likely after exhausting her appeals--there are 2 levels of appeals, provided a new trial isn't ordered, correct?

she'll be done with appeals in what, 4 years?

By then she'll have served 6 years. I wouldn't be surprised if the prosecution/court agree to reduce her sentence in exchange for a full mea culpa. That is, Foxy Knoxy fully and truthfully (ha, see if she can do that) confess and acknowledge her role in Meredith's murder and her sentence gets reduced. Of course, they'd likely consult Meredith's family on the matter first and provided they had no objections, they'd cut a deal with Amanda to spill all and then maybe cut her sentence in half and kick her free after a decade or so.

The other side of that is they'll likely work on the boyfriend with the same sort of deal--they might even make his sweeter and sooner, if he's willing to confess and explain what happened that night.

Which if the bf beats Amanda to the punch, she won't get any mercy at all. Although that would depend what story the bf told and how verifiable it was--maybe he has a smoking gun piece of physical evidence stashed away somewhere. Or maybe when he tells his story it rings so true and matches the known evidence and facts so well...who knows.
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The boyfriend didnt seem so nutty to me as she did tho ive seen photos of him before the murder with huge knives. In pictures of him immediately after being convicted..he didnt even seem bothered it was weird.

The other alternative maybe..is...if Guede loses his appeals which i think he will..maybe HE will try and strike a deal if he thinks the other pair will try and make him take all the blame for it.

IF Amanda does confess i THINK though not absolutely certain that she could probably serve her sentence in a American prison.
 
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