GUILTY MA - Colleen Ritzer, 24, brutally murdered, Danvers, 22 Oct 2013 #1

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possumheart said:
It is believed that he used a craft knife stolen from an art classroom to attack the math teacher after forcing her into a second-floor bathroom.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...-infatuated-Colleen-Ritzer.html#ixzz2ihNVynOV
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That's inconsistent with all of the other msm saying it was 5 minutes between when she entered the restroom and when she was "followed" in there by Chism. Also, from the article, the only thing I see in it that supports the "it is believed" statement is a student statement that "i heard":

The student said: 'She was such a great teacher and she worked really hard. She had set some math quizzes that day and I guess she had stayed late to mark them.

'Apparently the boy hid in school after class, he didn't go home at all. Then I heard he forced her into the bathroom and attacked her with a knife from the art room.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...-infatuated-Colleen-Ritzer.html#ixzz2ihSYBq55
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This case is so disturbing.

Has it been determined if she was sexually assaulted or not?
 
matou said:
Yes, I think she was trying to get on his good side and help him out. Also, by pointing out his strengths, she could use that to help teach him math using graphs and other visuals.

I'm very disturbed about this case. I agree his mental health needs to be evaluated. I wonder what was in his "file" r.e. previous behaviors, suspensions, etc. He smashed her phone so he went through her things and also grabbed her wallet for the credit card. So strange that he used her credit card when that would trace back to him yet he destroys her phone seemingly to not be traceable to him. ???? Bizarro IMO.
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It appears to me that maybe he destroyed her phone after reading text messages or something else. Its kinda telling that he also destroyed his phone. Erase/destroy some sort of connection. Just tragic all around.
Yes, he "allegedly" killed his teacher in cold blood. However he is still a 14 year old boy. He might be immatured is some areas.
All moo! :)
 
ms_x_to_the_m said:
It appears to me that maybe he destroyed her phone after reading text messages or something else. Its kinda telling that he also destroyed his phone. Erase/destroy some sort of connection. Just tragic all around.
Yes, he "allegedly" killed his teacher in cold blood. However he is still a 14 year old boy. He might be immatured is some areas.
All moo! :)
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Thank you for this. We shouldn't just throw away these kids, many are redeemable. They are still boys, growing and learning about themselves and the world around them. Some have just to much pain, others others are so confused they lash out. Few of them realize the consequences of what they did like adults so. Some are irredeemable but they are few and far between. I find that equating the magnitude of the crime to the character of the boy doesn't work very well. It does in some cases and in those the child will never be fit but they need intensive psychological care for the rest of their life. Others mature into good and productive human beings within a few years and tehy can be set on their way with confidence so long as they aren't being set back into an abusive or otherwise soul killing environment.
 
Sorry, just have to go on a little rant here.

I know that legally news sources have to use "allegedly" and "suspect" until the person is proved guilty. That's fine and I don't have a problem with it.

I also know that the boilerplate initial plea is almost always "not guilty" and I don't have a problem with that either.

However, it's obvious in this case who the perpetrator was.

So I seriously hope the parents encourage--no, insist--that the teen admit to what he did and take responsibility for his actions.

I know nothing about the parents, but it seems to me that taking responsibility for one's actions is a lesson often lost on today's kids thanks to their upbringing.

If they choose instead to fight this out in court hoping he'll get off on some sort of technicality, maybe due to his age, I will be livid.

IMO that would simply be cruelly and unnecessarily prolonging the agony of the victim's family and everyone else who is mourning her loss when there's no question of his guilt, at least as far as I can see.

/vent
 
SilkySifaka said:
Thank you for this. We shouldn't just throw away these kids, many are redeemable. They are still boys, growing and learning about themselves and the world around them. Some have just to much pain, others others are so confused they lash out. Few of them realize the consequences of what they did like adults so. Some are irredeemable but they are few and far between. I find that equating the magnitude of the crime to the character of the boy doesn't work very well. It does in some cases and in those the child will never be fit but they need intensive psychological care for the rest of their life. Others mature into good and productive human beings within a few years and tehy can be set on their way with confidence so long as they aren't being set back into an abusive or otherwise soul killing environment.
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Seriously?

Couldn't disagree more. This isn't a kid with an attitude problem. This is a stone-cold killer that was so remorseful he saw a flick and had Wendy's on his victim's dime immediately following his indiscretion.

Set him free at society's peril. IMO
 
CuriousGuy said:
Seriously?

Couldn't disagree more. This isn't a kid with an attitude problem. This is a stone-cold killer that was so remorseful he saw a flick and had Wendy's on his victim's dime immediately following his indiscretion.

Set him free at society's peril. IMO
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I totally agree. Although I do believe some youthful offenders can be rehabilitated, I'm not familiar with any cases where the perpetrator of a crime of such violence as this one went on to be a productive citizen.

I've been away from the internets for most of the evening so it was only when I got on WS that I saw the info about him smashing her phone and using her credit card for the meal. If the latter is true (not saying it isn't, just that I haven't read it for myself), then I agree with whatever poster said it upthread:

sociopath.

And thank goodness he was caught now and please God he is tried, convicted, and punished as an adult before he can hurt others.
 
This case has a lot of contradictions, as is normal in the beginning of most cases. He brought a box cutter to school, he acquired the box cutter at the school, he stole an art knife from art class. He was at soccer practice and left, he didn't arrive at soccer practice. He followed her to the washroom and waited, he forced her into the washroom. It seems there are many inconsistencies and much hearsay from the students and media. It will be interesting to say the least to find out the real story. Hopefully we will, and i am sure the 130 CCTV cameras will provide the facts as it appears most of the crime was caught on tape.

To read PC was now wearing gloves is disturbing, it either shows he was intending on committing the crime, or perhaps he may have been wearing them for soccer practice. Regardless, he may have never went to practice so why have the gloves on? Also the change of clothes, he either brought extra clothes with the intention of changing into them after the crime, or just happened to have them on hand because he usually changes after soccer practice?

There are also the reports that he had used CR credit card to pay for the movie ticket, and then go to Wendy's??? Wow, no words. I believe that he smashed the cellphones as a means to destroy evidence, but not sure how i feel about it being related to them exchanging text messages. Regardless, PC went through and took her belongings, not good.

Also with all the staff, and students, and soccer practice taking place in the field and NOBODY saw a thing?? He dragged her body in a recycling bin through the school halls, down the stairs, across a field and into the woods, and not one witness? Seems odd.

It disturbs me that a 14 year old child would resort to such a brutal crime for whatever the reason may be, whether he was frustrated with being mentored with his studies, or his teacher refused his advances, for PC to take the action he did is highly disturbing, and i firmly believe he has underlying mental issues. Which to me is sad, this is all very sad.

JMO IMO MOO
 
I don't know if he was smashing the cell phones to hide evidence. If he could think that far ahead about evidence, he would know that info can still be retrieved from a smashed phone.

I think he smashed them in a rage. I had a friend that has smashed at least 5 of his cell phones. He is in his 60's, lots of issues, and a really bad temper/rage. Sad, but true.

It could have just been one of her happy, feel good about yourself, quotes and he became enraged about it.

Just another point of view on phone smashing.
 
Yes, smashing the cellphones out of rage is another possibility, i wonder if he did it before the movie or after the movie? Who knows what his state of mind was at either point. Was he calm, cool and collected, feeling enraged, or perhaps out of sorts? PC was found walking down an open road approx 5 miles from Danvers, how did he get there? Did he walk, have a ride?

I think going to the movie theatre and his choice of movie was not so much based on what movie he wanted to see but more of a way to hide, calm down or create an alibi. He probably had such a sense of urgency that he chose just any movie.

JMO
 
IzzyBlanche said:
Sorry, just have to go on a little rant here.

I know that legally news sources have to use "allegedly" and "suspect" until the person is proved guilty. That's fine and I don't have a problem with it.

I also know that the boilerplate initial plea is almost always "not guilty" and I don't have a problem with that either.

However, it's obvious in this case who the perpetrator was.

So I seriously hope the parents encourage--no, insist--that the teen admit to what he did and take responsibility for his actions.

I know nothing about the parents, but it seems to me that taking responsibility for one's actions is a lesson often lost on today's kids thanks to their upbringing.

If they choose instead to fight this out in court hoping he'll get off on some sort of technicality, maybe due to his age, I will be livid.

IMO that would simply be cruelly and unnecessarily prolonging the agony of the victim's family and everyone else who is mourning her loss when there's no question of his guilt, at least as far as I can see.

/vent
Click to expand...

:goodpost:
 
Karmady said:
~bbm

I read that earlier and it caught my eye. Oddly phrased. Why would a math teacher have any reason to have known that a brand new math student could draw? Maybe she was just being a little funny/sarcastic because he was doodling instead of working on classwork?

jmo
Click to expand...

It sounds normal to me. He was doodling and apparently listening to music (with headphones in, I'm guessing) instead of listening to the lecture. She's a nice teacher, makes an effort with the students, and here's a kid who is making it obvious that he's not paying attention the day before an exam. So she chooses a kind route to draw him out. By this point in the year, you do know the students in your class (I'm a professor, but I already feel I know the students who were strangers to me in September). I could easily see myself saying "I didn't know you liked to run/sketch/do ballet" as a way of drawing someone out. It's a very kind way of making a student see that you've been getting to know them, but you're interested to know more. The "more" you find out about them is often a path you can take to refocus them on your subject.

In this case, it was even kinder of her as she was taking something he was clearly using to ignore the lecture and defusing it by showing kind interest in it. I'm not surprised to read she was going into counseling. She sounds like she really paid attention.

But that makes me think even more this student must have been a psychopath to have killed someone who was gentle and trying to connect to him. This wasn't one of those teachers who might challenge a hormonal teenager in a way that makes them feel like killing them is sticking it to authority figures. This teacher was gentle and almost motherly, it sounds like. To feel killing rage against a gentle, kind woman has something else going on.

SilkySifaka said:
Thank you for this. We shouldn't just throw away these kids, many are redeemable. They are still boys, growing and learning about themselves and the world around them. Some have just to much pain, others others are so confused they lash out. Few of them realize the consequences of what they did like adults so. Some are irredeemable but they are few and far between. I find that equating the magnitude of the crime to the character of the boy doesn't work very well. It does in some cases and in those the child will never be fit but they need intensive psychological care for the rest of their life. Others mature into good and productive human beings within a few years and tehy can be set on their way with confidence so long as they aren't being set back into an abusive or otherwise soul killing environment.
Click to expand...

Really? How would you tell the difference between violent sociopath and an immature but fixable kid who killed his teacher and dumped her in the woods, and then ate a burger and fries?

And can you give an example where equating the magnitude of the crime to the character of the person committing it was a mistake? I feel like that's actually a very good method to identify violent people, is that they committed very violent crimes without provocation. I'm not sure what other metric you'd use to determine someone's violent character?
 
http://www.cnn.com/2013/10/24/justice/massachusetts-chism-profile/

Before he moved to Massachusetts last spring, Philip Chism had impressed the people he knew in Clarksville, Tennessee, where he graduated last spring from Rossview Middle School. "Great soccer player -- probably the main reason we won the league championship last year," Jando Herrera told CNN affiliate WZTV about Chism, whom he coached in soccer for two seasons.
"I'm sure any of his teammates would say the same thing: that he was just the nicest kid on the team, probably. ... It's completely out of character; it's not something that I would ever imagine Philip ever, you know, doing or anything like that ... always the most respectful kid that I've, you know, had around -- 'yes sir, no sir.' "
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From the above comment it doesn't appear that he had prior behavioral issues at school. Sometimes kids will behave differently at home and it's unknown if he may have been acting out there. He had two stressors...a move and his parents separation. He could have been bottling everything up and snapped.

It's my opinion from personal experience with others throughout my life, that some are born with imbalances in the brain, that predispose them to violent behavior triggered by stress, trauma and/or substance abuse. It is extremely unlikely that anyone is going to make it through life without experiencing stress and trauma. For instance, I internalize things to the point where I become physically ill. Everyone is different. I believe some snap and lash out with violence.

As much as I would like to see that we can recognize and prevent these things before they happen, I'm not very optimistic that this can be done in many cases.

I think the best thing that society can do, is to teach our children to talk openly about their feelings. Society teaches males to hide their feelings and be tough, yet the vast majority of violent acts are committed by males.

Health is a big issue with our children today, stressing healthy eating choices and exercise. I think it's far past time that mental health is also incorporated into the equation. I would guess that mental health, is responsible for more youth deaths and crime, than any other cause.
 
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