WV WV - Sodder Family - 5 children, Christmas eve 1945 - #4

:yes:
Boy, I'll have to say I see a huge resemblance. Honestly, a lot of times when I look at comparisons on this website that people swear by I don't usually agree. But this one to me looks like an older, slimmer-faced Betty. I mean it really, really does. However, JMO.

What really gets me about this photo, is the girl looks very similar to both Betty AND Martha Lee. But she looks just different enough from Martha Lee to not be her, and the ages would not match. But Betty looks similar to Martha lee in her photo, and if Betty grew up to look similar to her sister, this fits both children so much. Jennie looked imo much different from her sisters Martha and Betty. But Betty looks like a younger smaller version of Martha.

Aw crap just made a huge mistake. Apologies all around. Suddenly I was thinking 1945 and writing 1955, no way this girl could be the child. In 1945 she was 5. Which means she was born 1940. No way. Because in 1962 the child would be 22 yrs old. So sorry for wasting your time. UGH. Time to take a week off and rethink this whole thing.

Ok have we considered this avenue? In Oklahoma, on Christmas eve of 1945, two girls were killed. Terry and Darlene Anderson, said to have been 11 and 13. The girls were described only as murdered. Their youngest sister did not die, Betty Dolly Anderson. Hmmm... Strange coincidence, don't you think?

Whew. I just finished reading through all of these threads, as well as anything else that I could find online regarding the case. I think that there is no way these children died in the fire that night. I think that lack of remains is the strongest indicator of this. Statistically, I also think it is strange that the 5 children that were allowed to stay awake and play would just happen to be the same 5 that "perish" in the fire. I think the children were already gone before the fire started. They may have already been gone before the fire started, and possibly even before the wrong number phone call was made. I am not sure what happened to them all after they were taken, but I feel like the were definitely out of the house before the fire even started.

And, I wanted to bump the thread to the top and see if there is any new information.

Also, I didn't see any mention anywhere of why the website dedicated to this mystery was taken down (http://www.sodderchildren.com)

Laura_Bean said:

Paul. That is a good theory. The fact that it happened on Christmas eve could have meant something to them. If the children saw them, the klansmen, say, when they went outside to begin their chores, they could have been grabbed before getting anything done. Does anyone know if there were any signs of a struggle that night, outside of the house? A bucket laying on it's side on the ground, a child's shoe, anything that would suggest they had gone outside to do the outdoor chores and were stopped before getting to them?

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Christmas Eve is very important to Italians too. Arguably more important than Christmas Day. Usually there is a big feast (fish typically.) I wonder if the family was celebrating that night.

It struck me that the ONLY people missing from the fire scene are the ones who were possibly still awake when the fire started. The parents, youngest daughter, and two oldest boys had gone to bed. The daughter who was still up to watch the other kids stated she fell asleep while they were still playing.

So why is it only the 5 children still awake who vanished? What I'm thinking is it's because they saw or heard something outside, maybe witnessed arsonists setting fire to the house, and they were grabbed and taken from the scene, killed and hidden. The arsonists probably assumed those still asleep would die in the house fire, therefore killing the entire family. Obviously you don't set a house on fire, after bedtime, without intending harm to people sleeping inside. This would not be a warning but murder or attempted murder if you did that.

I can't figure why family members of the Sodder's would have kidnapped the children, because that would put the family members at the scene of the fire to have taken them while the house was burning. So unless family members are the ones who set the fire (which I'm not at all suggesting), why would they even be there? And if they were, wouldn't they have tried to save all the children and the whole family?

The story that the locals believe, that the 5 missing children were murdered and their bodies dumped somewhere, makes the most sense to me. The question would be who had it in for the Sodders and why.

I have spent hours reading through the threads and find this story fascinating, along with being terribly sad too. I have one question which has been niggling in my brain all night-does anyone know if the chores the kids were supposed to do ever finished? And also, do those chores normally get done in the middle of the night?? I just think it is strange that they were supposed to go outside in the late of night to do chores, especially as it was December and I am assuming it would have been pretty cold, possibly snowing and dark. Thanks to anyone who may be able to answer this!!

Laura_Bean said:

Ok have we considered this avenue? In Oklahoma, on Christmas eve of 1945, two girls were killed. Terry and Darlene Anderson, said to have been 11 and 13. The girls were described only as murdered. Their youngest sister did not die, Betty Dolly Anderson. Hmmm... Strange coincidence, don't you think?

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Hi Laura_Bean, do you have a link for the sisters in oklahoma that you are talking about or can you tell me what search term to use to find this? thank you very much

I'm not sure I'm in the right place for this, but. . .wouldn't some of these children been old enough to know who they were?

Laura_Bean said:

Ok have we considered this avenue? In Oklahoma, on Christmas eve of 1945, two girls were killed. Terry and Darlene Anderson, said to have been 11 and 13. The girls were described only as murdered. Their youngest sister did not die, Betty Dolly Anderson. Hmmm... Strange coincidence, don't you think?

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Are you certain on those names? We have another cold case from Indiana which involved victims Terry and Darlene Anderson, but they were a man and wife and it occurred much more recently. Just wanted to clarify.

...or if the 5 "missing" Sodder kids did see something they weren't supposed to, why would the perps take the time to kill them & then drag the bodies off? One would think that if there was a fire, right there, they would have used it to dispose of the bodies. I would also think that if (especially the older Sodder children) would have seen a prowler or the like, they would have made some sort of alert. Even if they were just yelling something like "Who goes there?" I would think it would have been enough to wake someone in the house...

I know it's not a popular theory but I truly believe that the kids perished in the fire & that the men who were tasked with finding the remains just weren't that great at it. I totally understand the want of the Sodder parents to believe that their kids were still alive...

I would also think that if the missing Sodders were alive, at least 1 of them would have been heard from. The older kids would have remembered who they were & what happened.

Occam's Razor and all...

tonite....christmas eve......I won´t forget

Jennie, don´t let the story die please!

I do hope those children are still alive!

Thinking of the Sodder children this holiday season and wishing for answers soon!!

:seeya: I've spent hours reading about this story, and I've only made it about half way through. I had to search just to find this most recent thread. This story has really gripped my attention. Its fascinating and scary at the same time.

My father was the youngest of 9 children and while there isn't a strong resemblance, George and Jennie remind me of my grandparents. They also lived in a rural coal mining area.

That area is Central City, KY. I consider Central City my home, but really our family farm is in a small town about 8 miles from Central City. Most people consider the whole county their home town, which includes Greenville, Graham, Dunmor, Belton, Beechmont, Browder, Cleaton and several other small towns. Central City High School no longer exists, but the area has been converted into a community wellness center and I believe the old gym is now a museum. I haven't been there, but I may go have a look around soon. My parents go to the wellness center often. The high schools consolidated into Muhlenberg North and Muhlenberg South in 1992 when I was in the 7th grade.

While the photo allegedly of Louis in 1968 was postmarked from Central City, the person in the picture could have lived anywhere in the county. I don't personally recognize the person in the photo, but I plan to show the photo to some family members to see if they recognize him. My father was born about 6 years after the fire, but its possible one of my aunts or uncles may recognize the person. I can also ask them what the area was like back in the late 40s.

If anyone has questions you would like me to ask around, I'll be glad to help in any way I can. I also don't mind getting verified, if necessary at some point.

Clueless, nice to have someone from Central City on here. I have not been around WS's much in the past couple of years(I do check in on certain threads) but I never give up hope that some clue will surface. Maybe you will be the one to find it. Please show the picture to as many people as a you can. Maybe you could make some fliers and hang them in some businesses. Maybe just maybe someone will know something about Louis.

Well, I've shown the picture to everyone I've had time to and unfortunately I don't know anyone the right age. No one so far has recognized the man in the picture. I plan to make up flyers and post them around when I get time. I only get to go back home a few times a year, so I'm not sure when that will be.

This is not a difficult case and certainly not one full of intrigue.

I've read quite a bit about it in the past few days and can state that the house burned down. How? I don't know and apparently no one made any effort to find out back in 1945.

The five children who died were incinerated. If you have not seen human remains after a fire then you need to visualize a chicken or other animal that was left on the grill way too long. That sounds disrespectful but that is how it is.

An incompetent fire chief who could not even drive a fire engine made a cursory inspection on Christmas morning and then went back to his Christmas dinner. No wonder that he didn't find anything. The husband used a bulldozer and covered the site four days after the fire! Any competent fire investigator would have never allowed that especially after five people were presumed to have died.

How in the world can any sane person speculate that five children miraculously escaped the fire only to be kidnapped while five other people escaped the fire? That is just ridiculous.

I believe that the husband and wife spent their remaining years covering up for what they believed was their own failure to save their children by making up stories and other such nonsense.

Falcon500 said:

This is not a difficult case and certainly not one full of intrigue.

I've read quite a bit about it in the past few days and can state that the house burned down. How? I don't know and apparently no one made any effort to find out back in 1945.

The five children who died were incinerated. If you have not seen human remains after a fire then you need to visualize a chicken or other animal that was left on the grill way too long. That sounds disrespectful but that is how it is.

An incompetent fire chief who could not even drive a fire engine made a cursory inspection on Christmas morning and then went back to his Christmas dinner. No wonder that he didn't find anything. The husband used a bulldozer and covered the site four days after the fire! Any competent fire investigator would have never allowed that especially after five people were presumed to have died.

How in the world can any sane person speculate that five children miraculously escaped the fire only to be kidnapped while five other people escaped the fire? That is just ridiculous.

I believe that the husband and wife spent their remaining years covering up for what they believed was their own failure to save their children by making up stories and other such nonsense.

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I agree with you completely. I think that if this fire had been investigated completely, we wouldn't be talking about this case today. Either there were no remains due to the heat of the fire, or there were remains that went unnoticed or unrecognized.

I don't know why the parents continued looking for the children, unless they truly didn't believe they had perished in the fire.

Falcon500 said:

This is not a difficult case and certainly not one full of intrigue.

I've read quite a bit about it in the past few days and can state that the house burned down. How? I don't know and apparently no one made any effort to find out back in 1945.

The five children who died were incinerated. If you have not seen human remains after a fire then you need to visualize a chicken or other animal that was left on the grill way too long. That sounds disrespectful but that is how it is.

An incompetent fire chief who could not even drive a fire engine made a cursory inspection on Christmas morning and then went back to his Christmas dinner. No wonder that he didn't find anything. The husband used a bulldozer and covered the site four days after the fire! Any competent fire investigator would have never allowed that especially after five people were presumed to have died.

How in the world can any sane person speculate that five children miraculously escaped the fire only to be kidnapped while five other people escaped the fire? That is just ridiculous.

I believe that the husband and wife spent their remaining years covering up for what they believed was their own failure to save their children by making up stories and other such nonsense.

Click to expand...

I can agree with this post - to a point. What did/do the children who survived the fire say about their siblings? Did they try to resuce them? Were they too far away? What did the survivors say?