Theories On What Happened to Caylee Part #8

txsvicki said:

Wouldn't that have been noted or recorded? If the apartment had a garbage disposal and they drank their soft drinks and ate the little tv dinners there wouldn't be any food or liquid. Fast food containers and soft drink cans made up most of the garbage. There weren't any raw chicken wrappers or hamburger meat plastic covering. Not even any evidence of real food or cooking.

Click to expand...

Doesn't matter if there were hamburger or raw chicken (from the grocery store) all those have been treated with preservatives and will not decompose naturally. Unless of course she went to a fresh market and bought some meat from a butcher in which case it starts decomposing in a day or so.

For instance meat is treated with some or all of these...

A great deal is irradiated (not all)
Antimicrobial agents
Ground Beef, treated with milk-derived Lactoferrin
Ozone

Which is why when my hamburger meat goes bad it smells kinda sour but, nothing like even a dead animal odor. My dad even makes fishing bait by using hamburger meat kneaded up into little balls and lets them bake on a piece of tin in 100F South Carolina summers for a few days and they give off no odor.

crucibelle said:

Sometimes I wonder about that, too. Like maybe she thought Ricardo was chloroforming her or afraid that he would, after seeing that picture on his myspace. Maybe that is why the "self defense", "household weapons", and "hand to hand combat" came in. In any case, I think that if ICA murdered Caylee, that chloroform had nothing to do with it.

Click to expand...

WHY would Ricardo have to chloroform her? She slept with him every night already?

And that chloroform cartoon was all over the internet. Thousands and thousands of college kids had it on their photobuckets.

She had no fear of Ricardo. She had Caylee sleeping in his bed with them.

I do believe KC was seriously fascinated by Chloroform when she repeatedly looked it up.
Following some of the links mentioned during the testimony I read some articles that painted Chloroform in a really positive light.People actually enjoying getting knocked out like that.Maybe she wanted to use it on herself.She's obviously interested in escaping reality.
From what I understand R posted the icon AFTER KC did the searches to his myspace.
I'm sure it was something she discussed with him due to her fascination.
I think that's why R was reluctant to give his PC to LE.
Just like Crucibelle I think the CHloroform had nothing to do with Caylee's death however.
I just can't see KC going through the process of making it.
She operates in her mind mostly IMO and does not really do much manually.
That's another reason why I believe Caylee died accidentally or at least the murder was not premeditated.

RANCH said:

Sounds like Geraldo Bloise destroyed his notes in some kind of cover up. I wonder who else was involved?

Click to expand...

I'm not accusing GB of destroying evidence intentionally. Under cross examination, JB did basically accuse him of inadvertantly altering evidence. I think that is what happened. I think GB made an error in judgement by clearing off foodstuffs from the items in the white trash bag. His job was to store the evidence. I'm not sure what protocol is for the storing of evidence items that are maggot infested, and could potentially cause bacteria, odors, etc. At the time he received the white trash bag evidence, no one knew how important this piece of evidence would eventually be. I don't believe he was in cover up mode. I do think this issue will be revisited during the defense portion of the trial. I think there were questions that JB couldn't ask him under cross because the state hadn't opened the doors to allow him to ask the questions he wanted to ask. One other thing about the white trash bag, I believe in the defense side of the case, the defense will claim the white trash bag is tainted evidence, because of its time in the dumpster. Any insects in that dumpster prior to the white trash bag being thrown in there, could have infested the white trash bag within the 18 hours it sat there. This fact could bring a lot of doubt to Dr. Haskell's testimony, because coffin flies are often found in dumpsters.

As always, my entire post is my opinion only.

Soulmagent said:

This is very good. So I want to poke a hole.

The amscot woman saw a pooh blanket in the car when she looked into the window and noticed a messy car with some trash.

The pooh bear blanket is not in the car according to the list of removed items from CA.

The pooh bear blanket is next at the crime scene.

Motions to strike information not heard in court will be filed.:crazy:

Click to expand...

CA has not had the best memory, nor has she been the most reliable witness, so she could have simply forgot to mention she removed a pooh blanket from the car. She did throw some things in the washing machine, but I don't recall if she mentioned a pooh blanket.

The bedroom has a pooh bear theme, so it is highly likely that the A's owned more than one pooh blanket.

As always my entire post is my opinion only.

Okay, I have really hesitated to write this up...for several reasons...kc reminds me of me...in a very scary way....and...I am nowhere near the sleuther some of you are.

ICA has major sociopathic issues...not caused by but exacerbated by her family situation. She is a liar extraordinaire. I was a liar. Some lies became such a part of my life I didn't know what was truth and what was make believe. (there are still some things from childhood that I honest don't know if they happened or not:waitasec It, somehow was easier for me to set up a scenario that I had brushed my teeth than to really have brushed them. :loser: Lame, I know, and embarrassing...but I did it.

As ICA got to HS things were harder and harder to "fake". She hid things from her parents (this is assumption...I doubt she started having issues with lying after Caylee was born).

When ICA was expecting it was hidden, and when Caylee was born...there ensued a huge power struggle between CA and ICA. I don't doubt that Caylee was the sunshine of the family. But I think what ever mental issues ICA had were magnified...and I believe she mentally tormented GA and CA. If you don't watch Caylee I will.... etc...

When the trip to PR came up ICA was beginning to realize what being a real life parent is and not just the owner of a cute baby doll. Caylee was really beginning to cramp her style. She was getting more verbal...I have a 2 year 4 month old dear daughter..."me go...Paul go with me" a 2 yo grandson...less words but he can communicate wants, desires with me. IIRC, around the supposed PR trip is when some of these searches took place. At that point...I believe it was just curiosity..."I wonder if I could get a way with getting rid of Caylee that would solve ALL my problems. Nevermind..wouldn't work...mom would be all over me..." But the seed was planted...fast forward to June and ICA new found friends...things began to heat up between CA and ICA. CA trying to get ICA to take responsibility...trouble is forcing usually doesn't work.

So as we come into June...we have:

ICA wanting to be free...and being less so because of Caylee's age.

TonE not wanting Caylee in the apartment

CA wanting to make ICA see how NOT free she was

The relationship between CA and Caylee growing closer and closer by the day.


Sunday night...we have the "fight". I do think there was a fight! What I am not sure on is if GA did see ICA and Caylee leave for "work" the next morning.

Sorry I can't even write the next part...

:censored:

ICA immediately puts the body in the trunk of the car in a plastic bag (out of sight out of mind...and goes on her way to Blockbuster...(this is possible...Diane Downs, Ted Bundy)

June 17th...she realizes she needs to do something so decides to bury her...doesn't work...puts bag back in car in a laundry bag...by this time to ICA Caylee is just a piece of troublesome trash.

I believe the body was put in the woods around 20 or the 21st (haven't rechecked ping maps)

IMO, ICA lost it at the finding of the body because she knew she had been had...and she lost it at trial because she was supposed to.


I am hoping for CA and GA sakes and anyone else this woman meets that the jury sees her for what she is.

Diane Down's children had no previous abuse either...they were just merely in the way of her life. I think for ICA people are to be used for her own satisfaction/needs etc

seagull65 said:

An increasingly verbal Caylee could have told on anyone. I've always had trouble believing in any motive for Casey to murder Caylee. Caylee was almost 3, one more year and she'd be able to go to public pre-Kindergarten. And Casey had never been hindered by Caylee anyway, she just took Caylee along or left Caylee with her Mom when possible. I can't totally rule out the possibility that Casey could have murdered Caylee, but I find it unlikely. imo

Click to expand...

Sure Caylee could have told on anyone but who else was lying about taking her to the nanny and going to work? Caylee being in school wouldn't have made a big difference especially since Casey's nightlife was a huge part of her social life. I'm not sure how you can say Casey was never hindered by Caylee...she didn't just take Caylee along, instead she often had to stay at home rather than be with Tony, at the nightclubs, taking trips, etc.

I don't remember Bloise testifying that he cleaned any of the items in the trash bag before laying them out in the drying room? Can anyone provide me a link/time to his testimony about this?

ynotdivein said:

I don't remember Bloise testifying that he cleaned any of the items in the trash bag before laying them out in the drying room? Can anyone provide me a link/time to his testimony about this?

Click to expand...

I don't think he testified that he cleaned the items either. On his second appearance on the stand, JB was grilling him about the obvious wet trash. At one point JB said, "you would never intentionally destroy evidence would you?" At this point JA objected and there was a sidebar. After the sidebar, JB implied GB had cleaned the trash by stating "you would never intentionally alter evidence would you?" Or something to that effect. I do think this issue will come up again in the defense portion of the case.

I know this exchange came late in GB's second appearance on the stand, but I don't recall exactly what day and time this took place.

As always, my entire post is my opinion only.

Mombomb typed a summary of Bloise's testimony. The containers were all empty.

[ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=6632097&postcount=34"]Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - Gerardo Bloise testimony (OCSO crime scene investigator)[/ame]

ynotdivein said:

I don't remember Bloise testifying that he cleaned any of the items in the trash bag before laying them out in the drying room? Can anyone provide me a link/time to his testimony about this?

Click to expand...

I agree I would love to see a link or MSM article which states that Bloise cleaned containers. This witness took the stand and swore to tell the truth. His testimony in no way reflected that he cleaned items. Baez can float any theory he wants within limits. That doesn't make it sworn testimony.

thedeviledadvocate said:

I'm not accusing GB of destroying evidence intentionally. Under cross examination, JB did basically accuse him of inadvertantly altering evidence. I think that is what happened. I think GB made an error in judgement by clearing off foodstuffs from the items in the white trash bag. His job was to store the evidence. I'm not sure what protocol is for the storing of evidence items that are maggot infested, and could potentially cause bacteria, odors, etc. At the time he received the white trash bag evidence, no one knew how important this piece of evidence would eventually be. I don't believe he was in cover up mode. I do think this issue will be revisited during the defense portion of the trial. I think there were questions that JB couldn't ask him under cross because the state hadn't opened the doors to allow him to ask the questions he wanted to ask. One other thing about the white trash bag, I believe in the defense side of the case, the defense will claim the white trash bag is tainted evidence, because of its time in the dumpster. Any insects in that dumpster prior to the white trash bag being thrown in there, could have infested the white trash bag within the 18 hours it sat there. This fact could bring a lot of doubt to Dr. Haskell's testimony, because coffin flies are often found in dumpsters.

As always, my entire post is my opinion only.

Click to expand...

bbm... I disagree with the bold.

All evidence is just that...EVIDENCE.

Its importance is why it was given to GB to be stored properly without tampering in the first place. I am sure that is why GB holds this crucial position to begin with.

I do not feel that any (and ALL according to baez) of these 20+ years employees would risk their careers to conspire against casey.... jmooc

The bug expert testified and bolstered the testimony of Bloise. In order for there to have been those bugs in the trunk of the car there would have to be a large amount of organic matter. Add that to the pounds of raw meat testimony of Dr. Vass, and someone eating it with a plastic bag over their head, the trash/garbage theory doesn't hold up. The Organic material would have had to be in very large quantity and raw not processed food. The decomp and pot were on the paper towel.

I believe a man who served in the Air Force for 12 years as a law enforcement officer, a self made man who has furthered his investigative knowledge and schooling who testified under oath as a member of forensic law enforcement being accused by Baez of tampering with evidence is a blatant lie. If Baez had any evidence to what he was saying he would have continued the questioning and impeached the witness. He did not because it is carp.

Unfortunately that is how defense attorneys work.

It is like the old joke "A defense attorney asks the witness on the stand, so when did you stop beating and cheating on your wife". The man never beat or cheated on his wife, says it a million times, but yet the jury still heard it. It doesn't make it any more true, it is a trick to make a witness with very crucial and compelling testimony be less compelling or believable.

Baez "So you wouldn't intentionally destroy evidence now would you". same as the old joke of beating your wife. Bloise's testimony is a big piece of the puzzle. Baez can't fight the evidence so then he has to take the witness down a few pegs and go after the source of the testimony. Sad but that is how it works.

Makes me want to uke: Oldest trick in the book.

I strongly considered that Caylee's death could have been an accident (drowning perhaps) and that maybe in ICA sick mind she thought the only solution was to make it look like a kidnapping.

However, after thinking about it I have come to the conclusion this was no accident and staged kidnapping. First off, I don't think ICA is an idiot and if her intention was to make this look like a kidnapping then the smart thing would be to report the 'kidnapping' as soon as possible. I think the whole kidnapping story was the only story she could come up with in July '08 to make herself look not guilty. If she had reported the kidnapping soon after Caylee's death that would have cut into her partying time.

The other reason I don't think it was a staged kidnapping after an accident, is if Caylee truly died by accident ICA wouldn't have thrown her daughter out like garbage for animals to eat. This shows a total disregard for her daughter and lacks empathy and love.

And I don't believe for one minute GA was involved. He would have called 911 immediately, he wouldn't cover up for ICA, ICA wouldn't have taken the fall alone and tell her father at jailhouse visits he's been a wonderful father/grandfather, and he wouldn't have put a heart-shaped sticker and duct tape over Caylee's mouth.

Anyone have an idea of when she put Caylee in the bags. There was only one leg from a blow fly - initial fly that can come within seconds of death - found in the trunk. There were hundreds of coffin flies found on the paper towels.

I think she killed her around 3 or 4 when she came back to the house on June 16th. She thinks about putting her in the back yard and nixes that. By that time the blow fly finds its way to Caylee.

From Ashton's questioning I am gleaning that he believes KC put Caylee in the bags immediately and that the black bag was closed tight by now and this kept the initial BLOW flies from getting to Caylee. The coffin flies, however, can get in immediately because they are so small and these flies are not interested after the purging starts which would have been almost immediately because of the heat.

seagull65 said:

An increasingly verbal Caylee could have told on anyone. I've always had trouble believing in any motive for Casey to murder Caylee. Caylee was almost 3, one more year and she'd be able to go to public pre-Kindergarten. And Casey had never been hindered by Caylee anyway, she just took Caylee along or left Caylee with her Mom when possible. I can't totally rule out the possibility that Casey could have murdered Caylee, but I find it unlikely. imo

Click to expand...

even if she would go to pre-k in a year that's only during the daytime hours. ICA parties on the weekends and at night. not from 8am-3pm when caylee would be at school. so caylee would still get in the way of her social life b/c she couldn't find a babysitter since CA said she couldn't watch her anymore.

thedeviledadvocate said:

CA has not had the best memory, nor has she been the most reliable witness, so she could have simply forgot to mention she removed a pooh blanket from the car. She did throw some things in the washing machine, but I don't recall if she mentioned a pooh blanket.

The bedroom has a pooh bear theme, so it is highly likely that the A's owned more than one pooh blanket.

As always my entire post is my opinion only.

Click to expand...

i expect to hear more about this blanket because the state did not present a blanket to the witness that could have been what she saw in the car. So from the defence standpoint we have evidence in the car after Casey ditches the car and a witness to seeing it and no mention of the issue from the state and then GA gets the car and the or (a) blanket shows up at the place where Caylee is found.

If there is a different blanket I do behave the SA would have asked the amscot woman to ID it as the one from thar car ,the defence has enough with that witness to cause a reasonable doubt Casey put the blanket there. I do not think the SA would have left that issue wide open could they aviod it.

All my opinion we really might never hear about the blanket again.

Two different blankets appear in pictures.
One blanket matches the bedding (same pattern, background and is a comforter style), often seen in pics hanging at the end of the bed/cribside and the other is a fuzzy/softie type that is more beige or yellow in the background. IMO HTH

The way the tape was applied fits the theory that it was applied while she was in her car seat, IMO. More tape to one side and leaning downwards somewhat would fit with a child in a car seat with their head turned and downward to try and prevent the tape from being applied. JMO

ETA: Or even head facing away and upward at an extreme angle, IMO.

I have a question that maybe I missed in Cindy's testimony today. Did anyone hear who Cindy was referring to when she said "we" had replaced the stuffed toy bag(white laundry bag) with the hanging bag and put it a black trash bag in the garage? I would think that only Cindy and who ever killed Caylee would know where and what black trash bag contained that white cloth bag.