NO BAIL! Australia - Allison Baden-Clay, Brisbane QLD, 19 April 2012 -#29

Off topic with this case. But a remarkable story that may have some coincidence to "our" story.

http://news.ninemsn.com.au/national/8490445/sydney-man-guilty-of-honour-killing

CaseClosed said:

That last CM article again implies no visits by mother .... WHY?!! I've said this before, but I find this very strange. Is she repulsed? Is she about to break? She was obviously fine the day of the bomb affected Bail Hearing as both parents were seen leaving the Kenmore home that afternoon and again the next morning. Why hasn't she been to the remand centre? I can't understand this.

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Because she probably was not involved in the curcumstances thr night or morning Alison went missing...and her husband seems to be under a great deal of suspicion

Woof said:

Quick update re Find My iPhone for anyone interested. If Location Services are off, the Find My iPhone app supposedly doesn't work. If the SIM is removed, same. If battery removed, same. Yet police say ABC's phone was still transmitting the GPS signal. So, GBC's text message to ABC regarding 'app not working' or whatever.....was it bullsquat? Had he only turned the phone OFF, thinking that was all it would take to disable the GPS? That fascinates me. He says the app is not working, but obviously SOMETHING is working, enabling the phone to still ping until the battery dies.

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Morning y'all

Played around with my iPhone this morning and noticed this: the phone being traced by find my phone will show a status that it's being tracked. ie: if GBC DID try to use the app, Allisons phone would have recorded it ( if her phone was actually enabled TO be traced)



MOO

Originally posted by BJSleuth

I have rehashed some things, simply to get questions answered and clear in my mind, sorry if that's offended anyone, i'm not trying to steal ideas or anything. I find it really hard to keep track of who's who and who said what too.

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Great point!

Wonder Woman said:

:websleuther:
It seems unlikely from what we know that Allison had dressed to go running or walking before she died. Yet, GBC apparently reported what clothes she would be found in. He hadn't seen her going walking according to his account.

One might then wonder what clothes, if any, Allison died in. We have heard that there was blood in the car, however, we haven't heard that there was blood on her running clothes. Perhaps there was. If there was no blood on her running clothes, she might not have died in them or alternatively, the blood may have washed away or been destroyed when the body was exposed to the elements for 11 days.

If she was not wearing the running clothes when she died, there might have been blood on the actual clothes (if any) that she had been wearing when she died. These might have been the clothes that she had worn to the hairdresser. If this is the case, one wonders what might have happened to these clothes.

Does anyone have any information regarding the clothing she was wearing when she left the hair salon at 6:30pm on 19 April 2012?

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These are very good questions. He did state that he did not see her go for the walk, so how could he describe with accuracy what clothes and shoes she wore? Further, the Crown stated at the Bail Hearing in the Supreme Court that the children were in the house; so they most likely saw what their mother was wearing before they went to sleep. Their witness testimony is important here IMO.

I have to wonder if EBC was not disgusted with murder, but is now disgusted with how stupidly he went about it.

I hope one day we get to learn about the bc clan family dynamics.

Woof said:

Dr. Watson, you wrote 'And you can't remove the battery from an iPhone - it's built into the phone.'

That is not true. iPhone batteries can be removed.

And yes Global Artichoke, I am the poster who said that iPhones will still ping GPS even when turned properly off. They continue to ping until battery is either flat or removed.

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Thanks Woof - I stand corrected on that point. However, it is not a simple task, and not a matter of simply removing the back off the case and flipping out the battery as in most other phones. It seems to be quite an involved process including removing the display, the camera mechanism, etc etc..:

http://www.wikihow.com/Replace-an-iPhone-Battery

Just for those who may want to try it

But yes - the battery CAN be removed. As somebody posted a few days ago - my bad....

Fuskier said:

These are very good questions. He did state that he did not see her go for the walk, so how could he describe with accuracy what clothes and shoes she wore? Further, the Crown stated at the Bail Hearing in the Supreme Court that the children were in the house; so they most likely saw what their mother was wearing before they went to sleep. Their witness testimony is important here IMO.

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They probably said something to the police on the Friday morning too.
Allison's phone - I really hope the QPS have it her 'notes' and calendar may hold some vital information- lets hope she backed it up recently

GlobeArtichoke said:

I posted the above back in Thread #9, and since GBC allegedly declared the existence of this App in his April 20th SMS to Allison it could become an interesting piece of evidence.

As CaseClosed pointed out, location (GPS) services can be switched off manually which would disable the App on the iPhone. Or the phone itself could be switched off to disable the App.

Another poster also pointed out that a phone, even when switched off, can still be pinged and triangulated from mobile phone towers. It seems this was the case for Allison's phone (though we don't know if it was switched off) which indicates it wasn't destroyed.

My guess is that GBC probably divulged the April 20 SMSes to Allison to police on the morning of the search for her, knowing that the search for it using the App would be fruitless because he had either disabled location services or switched her phone off. It would then be imperative for QPS to find Allison's phone to check WHAT TIME it had been switched off. Usage statistics should record this.

Further, if GBC was in the habit of using the Find My iPhone App to locate Allison, it could weaken a defense argument that her phone might have been wrenched from her hands during an altercation with an attacker/abductor during her walk and tossed into the scrub nearby. In this scenario, one would have to presume the attacker had some clue as to how to turn the phone off, and to stop and take the time to do this.

MOO

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Your post is interesting because an earlier Poster, identified as 543 insisted that: if it was the husband, he would have switched the phone off. At that time, posters could not understand the significance of turning the phone off, but in light of your comments, that post did have signficance. IMO 543 seemed to know about the phone and possibly the app. Hope QPS read your post and follow up.

Maybe EBC can't be trusted to keep her cool? Maybe she'd have a tantrum and cause distress to darling G? Maybe she would be too distressed to see her baby in that situation and needs more time to come to terms with it?

Whatever the case, it certainly is very interesting!

kalamityk said:

They probably said something to the police on the Friday morning too.
Allison's phone - I really hope the QPS have it her 'notes' and calendar may hold some vital information- lets hope she backed it up recently

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With iCloud ( if its switched on) EVERYTHING is automatically sent there except SMS content. Everything else is sent - emails, calender entries, notes, find my iPhone activity...

UnfoldingTruth said:

Do we know that the scratches on his chest were deep? Just asking cause I don't think I've seen that mentioned. I know the ones on his face were supposedly deepish..

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April 21, 2012
Mr Baden-Clay voluntarily attended the Indooroopilly Police Station with his lawyers and voluntarily provided a DNA sample and allowed police to take photos of his body.
Scratches and abrasions on his chest, torso and neck were photographed.


Read more: http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/que...d-badenclay-20120626-210bz.html#ixzz1z285ldY1

Shelbinator said:

Maybe EBC can't be trusted to keep her cool? Maybe she'd have a tantrum and cause distress to darling G? Maybe she would be too distressed to see her baby in that situation and needs more time to come to terms with it?

Whatever the case, it certainly is very interesting!

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GBC won't talk, NBC won't talk and EBC won't talk OR visit her son - maybe they all googled self incrimination ....

MOO

The police affidavit said blood found in the rear of the car was tested and confirmed to be Allison's.

But Mr Davis disputed this, saying police had only filed evidence of a luminol test to the court and not the result showing the blood belonged to Allison.

He said it was "widely speculative and inaccurate".

But Justice Boddice said police had filed a "statement that it is" her blood and that they were not required to present further evidence at this stage of the court process.
http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/que...fekiller-gerard-badenclay-20120626-210bz.html

Curiousasacat said:

Dr Watson, I hope you don't mind but we all know most will check your verification.
I thought I'd post it here to save everyone going looking for it and googling.

What is a Thoracic Surgeon?
A thoracic surgeon is a medical doctor who performs operations on the heart, lungs, esophagus, and other organs in the chest. This also includes surgeons who can be called cardiothoracic surgeons, cardiovascular surgeons, general thoracic surgeons, and congenital heart surgeons.

What kind of training is required to become a Thoracic Surgeon?
Thoracic surgeons have to graduate from medical school and most commonly will go on to complete a five-year general surgery residency. After this they must successfully matriculate through an approved cardiothoracic surgery residency program for either two or three years. Some thoracic surgeons choose to do additional training in a sub-specialized area but this training is largely optional, except for congenital heart surgery.


Very specialized it seems. Welcome. Can I have a loan? LOL

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Good morning Curious and others Thanks for summarizing. That pretty well would identify me to some posters who live locally, but that's no problem. I also have those sub-specialized bits that are mentioned above, and in one of those areas, have been the only one in Australia for many years, until some of my trainees have taken the ball and are running with it, so to speak.

But enough of my qualifications. They only apply to stuff that I post that is relevant to my areas of expertise. For the general comments I may post, my knowledge or skills are not relevant and no different from anyone else's views. Maybe my training makes me think somewhat objectively rather than emotively, though, so apologies if that approach rubs the occasional poster up the wrong way.

:truce:

appleblossom said:

The police affidavit said blood found in the rear of the car was tested and confirmed to be Allison's.

But Mr Davis disputed this, saying police had only filed evidence of a luminol test to the court and not the result showing the blood belonged to Allison.

He said it was "widely speculative and inaccurate".

But Justice Boddice said police had filed a "statement that it is" her blood and that they were not required to present further evidence at this stage of the court process.
http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/que...fekiller-gerard-badenclay-20120626-210bz.html

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Perhaps this is why they wanted the DNA sample from him, to rule out the blood as being his or more likely - the children's.

Regarding the "Find My Friends" app that it appears GBC was referencing in his message:

It is something that has to be activated at both ends, ie the finder and the findee both have to authorise that particular app to work. The fact that GBC was referencing the app, and that ABC knew about at least one affair, perhaps part of the 'resolution' of the known affair was for ABC to be able to know GBC's location via the app - perhaps offered as a kind of 'trust offering'. So it seems likely that they both knew of and used the app.

Knowing that GBC's affair(s) continued, it may also be likely that he thought he was familiar with 'tricking' the app or using techniques to conceal his true location (leaving the phone in an innocent location while having a rendezvous etc). He may have believed he could use what he thought he knew about the app to generate a false location trail for ABC ending in "Find My Friends" being switched off (and a false trail for himself). Indeed, if this happened, he may have needed an accomplice just to move ABC's phone on a false trail (and then turn it off) while he was busy with other activities.

I have spent days reading through these forums.

First and foremost I am devastated for the three girls who lost their mother at the hands of presumably their own father.

My thoughts are with Allison's family. I hope they find the strength they need to try and work through this unforgivable crime!

---
Do you all think Allison knew what he was capable of? Of course not! So tell me... How could Toni?

Most people in life like to see the best in people, especially people we love. I am bemused at the fingers that have been pointed at Toni who is a victim here!

She foolishly fell in love with a married man, sadly it happens every day. The heart wants what it wants and sometimes it rules the head.

It frustrates me to read comments like "she shouldn't have 'gone after' a married man" how do know that she was not the one pursued - he was her boss, he had the position of power. Him sleazing on to her seems more plausible given cassinova was juggling a wife and 3 lovers!

It frustrates me that people say she "demanded" that he leave his wife. When? Just because he e-mailed her saying he made her a commitment to leave his wife by a certain date doesn't mean she demanded it - it seems more likely that she was sick of sneaking around and was going to put an end to it and he encouraged her to keep up the affair promising that he will leave his wife. It's a story been told thousands of times before!

It frustrates me that people comment on her appearance as if the affair would be more acceptable if the photos of her released by the media were more flattering it would some how be ok? She is absolutely beautiful in person.

No one but she knows why she fell in love with a married man - most of make mistakes of the heart but that doesn't mean she had any idea it would end this way.

She is a victim. Her life will never be the same again. She could have been the one who was killed if he could work out away to cash in on her demise!

He is a gutless man fuelled by greed! He preys on people to take advantage of. Toni is just one more on a long list of people who is hurting due to the actions of this spineless snake!



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

AusChuck said:

Regarding the "Find My Friends" app that it appears GBC was referencing in his message:

It is something that has to be activated at both ends, ie the finder and the findee both have to authorise that particular app to work. The fact that GBC was referencing the app, and that ABC knew about at least one affair, perhaps part of the 'resolution' of the known affair was for ABC to be able to know GBC's location via the app - perhaps offered as a kind of 'trust offering'. So it seems likely that they both knew of and used the app.

Knowing that GBC's affair(s) continued, it may also be likely that he thought he was familiar with 'tricking' the app or using techniques to conceal his true location (leaving the phone in an innocent location while having a rendezvous etc). He may have believed he could use what he thought he knew about the app to generate a false location trail for ABC ending in "Find My Friends" being switched off (and a false trail for himself). Indeed, if this happened, he may have needed an accomplice just to move ABC's phone on a false trail (and then turn it off) while he was busy with other activities.

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Hmmmm, interesting thought (I had).
In yesterday's newspaper, it stated that GBC had a conversation with TM.
Did they meet up and did Allison locate him via find my friend, and when she got back from the hairdressers did she tell him 'gotcha' !!



IMO
JMO
MOO

appleblossom said:

April 21, 2012
Mr Baden-Clay voluntarily attended the Indooroopilly Police Station with his lawyers and voluntarily provided a DNA sample and allowed police to take photos of his body.
Scratches and abrasions on his chest, torso and neck were photographed.


Read more: http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/que...d-badenclay-20120626-210bz.html#ixzz1z285ldY1

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Sounds like he may have been topless when this occurred and that a violent struggle took place.