17 yo Trayvon Martin Shot to Death by Neighborhood Watch Captain #28

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LolaMoon08 said:
I would think they would remove everyone far away from the crimescene if they were not directly involved? Isn't that really important? Preserve the crime scene?
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If there were only two or three officers on scene, and they were busy trying to administer CPR or first aid, I don't see that being a huge priority.
 
csziggy said:
Here was something new:


It's not in this version of the hearing but I thought I heard the detective say that the running from from the direction of where TM was staying towards where the body was found. I'm still trying to find a verbatim transcript of the hearing to verify my memory.

If that is true, though, then your scenario that Trayvon made it back or nearly back to the townhouse and that GZ chased him away from TM's place of safety was right!

IMO, JMO, etc. until I find that transcript!
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If George Zimmerman didn't chase, pursue, or follow Trayvon LONG after 18 seconds when the dispatcher told him to stop, how did George, his gun, and a DEAD Trayvon Martin wind up 233 feet from his vehicle?

TMChasePursue.png


If he did chase, pursue, or follow him how can it POSSIBLY be SYG?
 
OK we have discussed gun laws and ownership to the point of it becoming a topic unto itself. This gun debate belongs in another fourm....... except as it related to this case.
 
Desdemona said:
<BBM>

That is an interesting point. Anyone who knows/recalls: Did the witness state that GZ placed his hands on the back of his head? TIA
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I believe the witness said GZ put his hands on his head in "the universal gesture of 'I messed up.'" I remember thinking about that and to me, that would be hands on the forehead (little finger touching) and on the side of the head, with the head down. But that's just my opinion.
 
Donjeta said:
http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/ng.html
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Thank you!

And darn it! The part I remember about the detective saying there was a witness who saw figures running from the direction of the townhouse where TM was staying towards where the body was found is not in there. I must have been during a commercial break. I was switching among HLN, CNN, TruTV and MSNBC to catch all the parts of the hearing and I'm not sure which I was on when I heard that - unless I imagined it.

HLN does not seem to have a transcript, at least not one I can find. Guess I need to check TruTV and MSNBC.
 
LynnM said:
I believe the witness said GZ put his hands on his head in "the universal gesture of 'I messed up.'" I remember thinking about that and to me, that would be hands on the forehead (little finger touching) and on the side of the head, with the head down. But that's just my opinion.
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I would say it might mean that he was "raking his fingers through his hair" but he doesn't have hair do it would basically be him raking his fingers through his bald head? Still, he would get blood on his hands. The whole thing that bothers me with the blood is that it appears to not in any way be deluded with water (as it was raining) and the grass had to be wet? It's just red blood. Like it had just happened?

I'm wondering -- if when he jumped up and lunged at Trayvon because he didn't think Trayvon was that injured if that is when he hit his head against the sidewalk? It looks like it had just started bleeding and not something that was repeatedly happening and making contact with a wet surface or rain drops?

MOO
 
daisy7 said:
from the link:

The person who took the photograph of a bloodied Zimmerman, asking not to be identified, told ABC News exclusively that they did not see the scuffle that night, but did hear it. The person recalled seeing Martin's prostrate body on the wet grass and said the gunpowder burns on Martin's gray hoodie were clearly visible.

The photographer said that after the shooting, Zimmerman asked the photographer to call his wife. When the photographer asked him what to say, Zimmerman blurted out, "Man, just tell her I shot someone."
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Was wondering if maybe GZ hit his head on a sprinkler head during the scuffle INSTEAD of Travyon banging his head on the pavement. :yow:
 
m00c0w said:
If there were only two or three officers on scene, and they were busy trying to administer CPR or first aid, I don't see that being a huge priority.
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How did the officers know who to point their guns at? Two men? George had already put the gun in his waistband? I would expect that the officers might have had both the men at gunpoint since there would be no way for them to immediately know which one did the shooting?
 
HiHater said:
Exactly. There's a time and place for everything. GZ had his gun and flashlight because he had to "work" that evening.

IMO
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He probably carries them with him whenever he leaves his house at night. I know people who do the same thing. It does not matter if they are going to the mall or the Target or a dangerous part of town, they carry their weapon concealed in their waistband.

My father in law, rest in peace, lived in West Palm Beach and always carried his concealed weapon. He felt that things were scary sometimes because there had been a rash of car jackings and armed robberies in his area. He used to wear his when he took his wife to the Publix.
 
grandmaj said:
OK we have discussed gun laws and ownership to the point of it becoming a topic unto itself. This gun debate belongs in another fourm....... except as it related to this case.
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I think it's hard to delineate this. Posters are saying that him carrying a weapon and flashlights go to showing his state of mind that night. It's hard to show it doesn't necessarily when it ultimately leads to examples outside of the case.
 
LyndyLoo said:
As a Seasoned vetern of dealing with head bashing patients..I can attest to your statement...No one is lying when that detective agreed it could be consistent..He is NOT medically trained to know the difference..Wellllll I am!

Having said that..i would love to hear this confirmed by a physician and EMT's who saw it initially to believe such an assertion :banghead: BTW I would love to assess this smilie's head banging damages :floorlaugh: and compare the tissue damages done there :laugh:
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And if it is confirmed by the EMT's what will your position be then?

I am just curious about what it will take to convince people that this was self defense.

I know what it will take to convince me this was murder. It will take the State proving that GZ continued to follow TM and was the aggressor. Then I will firmly believe he should be held responsible. Right now I am going by what I know and when the 911 dispatcher said "we don't need to do that" I heard GZ say "okay". When I see evidence that he wasn't heading back to his truck as he claims, I will change my opinion.
 
katydid23 said:
He probably carries them with him whenever he leaves his house at night. I know people who do the same thing. It does not matter if they are going to the mall or the Target or a dangerous part of town, they carry their weapon concealed in their waistband.

My father in law, rest in peace, lived in West Palm Beach and always carried his concealed weapon. He felt that things were scary sometimes because there had been a rash of car jackings and armed robberies in his area. He used to wear his when he took his wife to the Publix.
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This gun fetish we have in this country -- incomprehensible.
 
Desdemona said:
To which link on that page were you calling our attention? TIA
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Just replying to the post that was two posts above mine that said s/he doesn't know where NG transcripts are.
 
Florida Native said:
And if it is confirmed by the EMT's what will your position be then?

I am just curious about what it will take to convince people that this was self defense.

I know what it will take to convince me this was murder. It will take the State proving that GZ continued to follow TM and was the aggressor. Then I will firmly believe he should be held responsible. Right now I am going by what I know and when the 911 dispatcher said "we don't need to do that" I heard GZ say "okay". When I see evidence that he wasn't heading back to his truck as he claims, I will change my opinion.
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So whenever someone shoots someone to death you automatically believe their side of the story?
 
Horace Finklestein said:
Yes I can. I believe if TM was shot in the back that would have come out by now. At a certain point, I think we have to stop reaching to interpret everything in a way that condemns GZ. Of course his injury came from coming in contact with sidewalk/cement, where else would it have come from? There was a witness that corroborates that version of events. For the longest time we heard there were no injuries to GZ and the police were lying. Now that there is a close up of GZ bleeding, people are reaching to say he still wasn't attacked. Seems unrealistic imo.
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BBM, "attacked" is only one way to get an injury. If GZ grabbed or tried to detaine TM, GZ may have been knocked backward, by TM, in an effort to get away or in an effort to defend himself. Just because GZ has some abrasion to his head does not mean that he got it from being attacked.
 
Working on a new thread will be closing this one in a few...
 
Adrienne37 said:
I thought Zimmerman was supposed to be barely conscious after the beating that he took from Trayvon. If that's the case, how is it he is standing up, talking on his cell phone a mere 3 minutes after that? I guess he has super-human healing strength.



~jmo~
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JMO..but in that picture it looks like he is sitting with his legs crossed on the grass. I think that dark grey area on the right is the knee of pants.
 
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