trial thread: 3/28/2012

Wondergirl · Mar 28, 2012

Woman who found McClintic's tossed shoes after Tori Stafford's death testifies

After she threw them into the bush, as she and Mr. Rafferty drove south, Tori’s clothes and the hammer - never located by police – were placed in a garbage bag and dropped in a dumpster at a carwash in Cambridge, Ms. McClintic said earlier during her testimony.

There, the couple washed down Mr. Rafferty’s Honda Civic and shampooed the inside, including the floor mats, Ms. McClintic said.

In a public washroom they then changed into different clothes that Mr. Rafferty had brought along, tossing their old garments out of the window as they drove along Highway 401, together with chunks of upholstery from the back seat, Ms. McClintic said. The chunks of upholstery have never been found.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news...ori-staffords-death-testifies/article2384078/

Wondergirl · Mar 28, 2012

Oldsoul2 said:
What I want to know is who was he texting at that bank machine, I can clearly see he was typing, what was so important in the middle of an abduction?

The video showing him on his Blackberry, was filmed at 11:30 a.m, April 8th, Oldsoul, prior to the abduction.

Wondergirl · Mar 28, 2012

Searchers find Tori Stafford's body in 2009.

http://news.nationalpost.com/2012/0...hear-evidence-about-where-her-body-was-found/

crazyladi · Mar 28, 2012

The video of him at the ATM the day after the murder he looks out to the left twice and leans back as if he was trying to watch out for something?. The first video he seemed very involved in whoever he was texting and took forever to get money out. I wonder who he was texting the morning of the abduction.

Sillybilly · Mar 28, 2012

I can't find the old aerial shots of the recovery scene, but based on the above pic, it seems the immediate area was heavily wooded. I am wondering how far from the rock pile (or wherever the car was parked) that one would be able to see the silo that TLM remembered. In the map she drew (at the blog link that Dilbert provided above), it has TLM's hand drawn map and the silo is apparently a couple of fields away.

Depending on where the silo is visible from, this could certainly be an indication/verification that it was in fact TLM who walked away from the car, and whatever that distance could have been.

Salem · Mar 28, 2012

~Respectfully snipped~

antiquegirl said:
Regardless, I think he was safer leaving them there than being spotted dumpster diving, opening garbage bags at a car wash. That would be pretty conspicuous (and disgusting) and he'd have a lot to answer for if questioned.

JMO

But I wonder if LE went back to the garbage bins or the landfill and looked for that trash bag? I don't remember any reports of landfill searches. Does anyone else?

antiquegirl · Mar 28, 2012

matou said:
Why did no one ask the witness (Crown OR defense) if the shoes looked like there was blood on them or if they had mud on them? The witness held on to TLM's shoes and meant to donate them to Salvation Army, it's a good thing she didn't. This makes me think she may have found them closer to the end of May, when police were asking residents for information. JMO

(BBM)

From your own Post #27

@AM980_Court

Venne asks Metcalfe about going for a walk in the spring of 2009. She can't remember exactly when. Late March or early April.

And another ...

London Free Press‏@RaffertyLFP

Sometime in March April 2009 she went for a walk near her home can't recall exact day

HTH

paris_paris · Mar 28, 2012

They didn't search the garbage bins because they never found the correct car wash.

There were dump searches in Salford, but that was before TLM confessed.

Salem · Mar 28, 2012

JayFriend said:
I notice in the ATM videos MTR appears to have an earring in his right ear. It used to be that homosexuals advertised their orientation by wearing an earring in the right ear. Is that still true today? I just bring that up because earlier someone suggested he could be gay and that could be a defence against raping a girl.

Let's leave the homosexual discussion for another day, please. There is NO evidence to support this theory and while it may be interesting, it is also an emotionally charged one and we don't need it to throw the discussiion off track.

If you can link it up with MSM articles or statements from LE, then the topic can be explored. Otherwise, let's stay on the topic of the trial and the evidence we do have.

Thanks,

Salem

antiquegirl · Mar 28, 2012

Salem said:
~Respectfully snipped~

But I wonder if LE went back to the garbage bins or the landfill and looked for that trash bag? I don't remember any reports of landfill searches. Does anyone else?

Yes, they did.

After months of combing through the rubbish in the Oxford County landfill, investigators assigned to the Victoria Stafford murder case have completed their search.

Police started looking in the garbage dump for clues and evidence soon after the eight-year-old Woodstock girl went missing in early April. They haven't revealed whether or not they've found anything of significance.

http://www.citytv.com/toronto/cityn...g-landfill-for-evidence-in-tori-stafford-case

ETA: Above article dated June 12, 2009 - after the arrests.

Kamille · Mar 28, 2012

Okay so the news articles are saying that TLM said that she only threw her shoes out. How did we come to the conclusion that she said they both threw their shoes out?

antiquegirl · Mar 28, 2012

More misinformation from the media (March 16, 2012)

The two then drove to a car wash in Cambridge, Ont., where they threw this evidence in the dumpster. They also cleaned the outside and inside of the car, and later tossed both of their shoes onto Highway 401.

http://news.nationalpost.com/2012/0...ic-resumes-evidence-against-michael-rafferty/

We now know, as testified today, that the shoes were discarded not "later" (after Cambridge), but before, and not on Highway 401, but on Sideroad 6. :banghead:

Kamille · Mar 28, 2012

antiquegirl said:
Yes, they did.

http://www.citytv.com/toronto/cityn...g-landfill-for-evidence-in-tori-stafford-case

ETA: Above article dated June 12, 2009 - after the arrests.

Well Cambridge has their own landfill site it appears so perhaps that was an attempt at finding the car seat?

Since they couldn't locate the car wash and the dumpster, there is no way they would have even known where to start looking for the bags. But they may have narrowed down the garbage collection for the area where MR lived during the time frame they believed he disposed of the seat and tried to find it in the Oxford landfill.

MOO

antiquegirl · Mar 28, 2012

Kamille said:
Okay so the news articles are saying that TLM said that she only threw her shoes out. How did we come to the conclusion that she said they both threw their shoes out?

The media is now saying it was only hers now? Do you have a link, please?

The explanation is simple. Either the media got it wrong the first time, or they're taking liberties with today's testimony and assuming/misinterpreting that there was only one pair of shoes being tossed.

We got the original info from Tweets such as this:

AM980.ca‏@AM980_Court

A slide of side road six is shown. McClintic told police where she and Rafferty dumped their shoes.

JMO

swedie · Mar 28, 2012

Kamille said:
Well if it's relevant and it was still out there and LE couldn't find it then I would be very disappointed in our OPP.

Could have been a flip flop or a high heeled pump so then it wouldn't be relevant but I would think they would establish that. If I was on the jury I'd be scratching my head right now about that shoe. Why mention it and not talk about it?

Heck I'm not even on the jury and I'm scratching my head about that :waitasec:

MOO

Maybe LE searched the dump after this witness said she threw it away and they found it there. Could be why they never went into great detail about it. This witness may be be on the stand later. Maybe there is more to come, we'll just have to wait and see. LE could have found the other one also and wouldn't really need to search the dump then. Here's hoping. :moo:

lease:

Kamille · Mar 28, 2012

Wondergirl said:
Here are the 2 pieces of evidence found at TLM's home with Tara's name.

http://www.newstalk1010.com/blog/raffertyevidence/home.aspx

Well if you compare the writing to TLM's journal, you can see that it was not her that wrote the address and phone number on the cigarette package. TM testified that it wasn't her but no one asked her if it was JG did they? Perhaps he is going to testify later regarding evidence? So it was likely either him or Carol that wrote that. Probably Carol.

MOO

Kamille · Mar 28, 2012

antiquegirl said:
The media is now saying it was only hers now? Do you have a link, please?

The explanation is simple. Either the media got it wrong the first time, or they're taking liberties with today's testimony and assuming/misinterpreting that there was only one pair of shoes being tossed.

We got the original info from Tweets such as this:

JMO

McClintic testified that, as they drove away from the scene of Stafford's death, she took off her shoes and threw them out of the car window into a field along Sideroad 6. Police eventually found those shoes (picture 1).

She also claims that she and Rafferty stopped at a convenience store in Cambridge that night, separately using the washroom to change their clothes. McClintic testifed that Rafferty gave her his white Puma shoes, basketball shorts and t-shirt to change into, packed into a blue gym bag. Police found items matching those descriptions in McClintic's home when they executed a search warrant after her arrest (pictures 2 and 3).

http://www.newstalk1010.com/blog/raffertyevidence/blogentry.aspx?BlogEntryID=10360097

So this is saying that she said it was only her shoes and that he gave her the Pumas that were found in her closet. :waitasec:

Kamille · Mar 28, 2012

swedie said:
Maybe LE searched the dump after this witness said she threw it away and they found it there. Could be why they never went into great detail about it. This witness may be be on the stand later. Maybe there is more to come, we'll just have to wait and see. LE could have found the other one also and wouldn't really need to search the dump then. Here's hoping. :moo: lease:

I'm now thinking that TLM never said MR threw his shoes out too and the original tweet was wrong about that. So that's why the other shoe was not important. They were only looking for her shoes.

MOO

swedie · Mar 28, 2012

Oldsoul2 said:
He doesn't care about her shoes, he cared about his shoes. He doesn't care that she was there, he cares to prove that he wasn't. That didn't work out too well for him in the end but what this is screaming is TLM did tell the truth so far about what happened that day and that is what the prosecution is trying to rely to the jury. The whole defense is based on only her and not him, if they can show, with solid evidence that alot of what she said panned out and is true, than the jury will realize the defense theory is hogwash.

:goodpost: :moo:

Sailor Bug · Mar 28, 2012

antiquegirl said:
We know she couldn't have found them in March, so have to assume it was early April.

She intended to give them to charity, but still had them in that shopping bag almost two months after finding them. What a lucky break for LE.

JMO

Metcalfe left the shoes in her garage for a week
The officer was there May 30, 2009
The shoes were found in May

On one spring evening in 2009, cold enough for frost but with light still in the sky, she found two things that stood out among the usual fast food wrappers and beer bottles along Sideroad 6 off Hwy. 6 north of Guelph.

By a lilac bush she saw one single shoe and a pair of running shoes

The married mother of two teenagers threw out and recycled the litter, then left the shoes in her garage for a week."
I wasn't sure what to do with them."

On May 30, 2009, Metcalfe noticed police on her road and spoke to an officer. She'd heard police investigating Tori's death were looking for the backseat of a car, but the officer told her they weren't looking for that.

As she started to walk away, the officer asked her about seeing any garbage along the road and Metcalfe mentioned the running shoes.

When the officer asked her for a description, Metcalfe testified she replied, "I can do better than that."

The shoes were sent to the Centre of Forensic Sciences for examination and photos of the shoes were sent to the OPP

http://www.lfpress.com/news/london/raffertytrial/2012/03/28/19561176.html

trial thread: 3/28/2012

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