TX - Hailey Dunn, 13, Colorado City, 27 Dec 2010 - #5

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It would be FANTASTIC if we could get a clear answer on the poly issue. That would just be lovely....
 
sarx - if you are still here. I have another question. I was told (by someone who is SAR) that German Shepherds notoriously cannot smell human remains under water, as in a lake or river. From what I understand - they can - that the gasses produced will rise to the surface of the water and disperse above it - and a dog - German Shepherd or not - can smell it and will react.
 
dodie20 said:
My sister had to put their precious black German Sheperd, down today. She was just over a year old, had been a little under the weather, but today, the vet found massive cancer in her bones, & there was nothing he could do. He even cried. They also have a traditional G shepherd, & watching those 2 dogs, is amazing. so smart & so protective. We babysat the black one, when she was little, & anytime this big, normally 'serious' dog would see my husband, she'd jump in his lap & lick his face. She remembered him playing with her.
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I am so sorry for your sister's loss. Losing a loved one is hard enough, losing them that young is really rough. Been there, hope I never am there again. My heart goes out to them.
 
sarx said:
It was reported that the video at the Western Suites Motel was checked (because dogs showed "interest" here, but nothing was found on the tapes). Anyone have quick access to that link?
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I found a link - an article about Hailey's mom being on NG's show, but after reading it, it doesn't even match the transcript

Billie Dunn told Grace that bloodhounds were used over the weekend and that the dogs may have tracked Hailey’s scent to a local motel.

Authorities then searched the rooms at the motel and the motel security camera footage, but no other evidence was obtained.


http://www.ktxs.com/news/26377186/detail.html

transcript:

I want to go back to Billie Dunn, this is Hailey`s mother.

How far did they tell you the dogs tracked your little girl to that Western Motel? Did they track her into the lobby? Did they track to a certain room, to the parking lot? How far did the trail go?

B. DUNN: They didn`t tell me that. They just let me know that to the friends, to the motel, and they`re reviewing the video at the motel, and calling everybody who had been checked in to the motel that day.

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1101/04/ng.01.html
 
Quick question: who is BO? I thought mom's initials were BD. TIA
 
sarx said:
Oh how I wish it were that simple, my life would be so much easier, lol. No, sadly, some dogs always have their noses stuck to the ground, some go down and up, some stay up most of the time, some are down when it's fresh and up when it's old, and some are the exact opposite. No two are alike. A good handler can "work" any dog, but they're not going to be able to read someone else's dog. So, if the dog takes them straight to the person, it's all good. If he doesn't and the handler has to decipher what the dog did, there's where knowing the dog becomes key. By the same token, if a person hasn't trained on say an old trail (or a super fresh trail, or a car trail, or a trail in the rain, the list goes on and on), then they aren't going to know what to look for because they've never seen it.
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Thank you, you have provided a wealth of knowledge this evening.

Recently, there was a case where they were bringing dogs in to search under water... does the body fluid disperse in the water like in the air?

And thank you again!
 
crocus said:
sarx - if you are still here. I have another question. I was told (by someone who is SAR) that German Shepherds notoriously cannot smell human remains under water, as in a lake or river. From what I understand - they can - that the gasses produced will rise to the surface of the water and disperse above it - and a dog - German Shepherd or not - can smell it and will react.
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Well, my shepherd thoroughly enjoys bringing up dead fish from the bottom of the river....

LOL, ok, sorry for that, but say what? It is a different discipline of training all together and you may not have any success taking a trailing dog out on a boat and hovering over a dead body, but being a GSD has nothing to do with it. (Course any dog out on the water may act "funny" in the presence of those gases rising up, and just not know how to "alert" on it.) After all dogs generally love dead things, it's a natural behavior, just like all search disciplines.

There is no cookie cutter answer to what breed makes the best SAR dog, there are certainly breeds that are more apt to it, but even there, it is only a tiny handful who have what it takes. You can't take every bloodhound, lab, shepherd, etc and turn them into a SAR dog. There are a few breeds who because of their pinched/pugged noses they actually don't have great sniffers, but that's such a tiny group it's hardly worth mentioning. I've seen so many breeds and mutts that have been awesome that I would never judge a dog by it's coat.
 
StrayKat said:
Thank you, you have provided a wealth of knowledge this evening.

Recently, there was a case where they were bringing dogs in to search under water... does the body fluid disperse in the water like in the air?

And thank you again!
Click to expand...

Water dogs work off of the gases that are released when scent molecules diffuse into the water and then are evaporated when they reach the surface (turning into the gas the dog smells). This reaction can go on for months depending on conditions, possibly even longer.
 
sarx said:
Well, my shepherd thoroughly enjoys bringing up dead fish from the bottom of the river....

LOL, ok, sorry for that, but say what? It is a different discipline of training all together and you may not have any success taking a trailing dog out on a boat and hovering over a dead body, but being a GSD has nothing to do with it. (Course any dog out on the water may act "funny" in the presence of those gases rising up, and just not know how to "alert" on it.) After all dogs generally love dead things, it's a natural behavior, just like all search disciplines.

There is no cookie cutter answer to what breed makes the best SAR dog, there are certainly breeds that are more apt to it, but even there, it is only a tiny handful who have what it takes. You can't take every bloodhound, lab, shepherd, etc and turn them into a SAR dog. There are a few breeds who because of their pinched/pugged noses they actually don't have great sniffers, but that's such a tiny group it's hardly worth mentioning. I've seen so many breeds and mutts that have been awesome that I would never judge a dog by it's coat.
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Totally understand. - I would never judge a dog by it's coat.
 
To any locals.
Has the area behind Walnut Ave and the area around E 21st been searched?
 
I think it would be a good time to bring in some HRD dogs for elimination purposes. Check the house, check the shed and check any vehicles that might be involved.
 
sarx said:
I'm sure I've missed it. Has Hailey always lived here?
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Not in that house we don't believe. I can't remember if either parent kept the house that they lived in during the marriage, once they separated. I know that fact is in one of the first threads.

In the area... I don't think we've heard if she has lived there her whole life? But I would think it's likely they have at least lived close.

I don't think we've seen really specific areas that have been searched. There have been citizens out doing searches. I do believe I have heard reference to Walnut and/or 21st being searched, but I could be wrong because I cannot find it right now.

We totally agree they need to bring in HRD dogs. I just don't know if they will... but they are finally searching now so maybe they will?


crocus said:
BO is Mom. Billie Ostrander. IIRC
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And since she and Clint Dunn are not technically divorced or remarried.... I do believe her name is technically Billie Dunn. That is how it has been in all of the recent articles. It was on Hailey's my space that it was BO and maybe an initial news article or 2.

But I think we can safely stick with Billie Dunn, Clint Dunn, Hailey Dunn and her brother DD. Less confusing I would think? (Plus I have this thing with initials like UTI, BM and BO I think, my brother says it's my inner teenager showing through...)
 
sarx said:
I think it would be a good time to bring in some HRD dogs for elimination purposes. Check the house, check the shed and check any vehicles that might be involved.
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Yes, I agree. I do think things may be coming together for the investigators. They seemed to be on top of things today... or pacifying the public since it has gotten media attention.
 
sarx said:
To any locals.
Has the area behind Walnut Ave and the area around E 21st been searched?
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Sorry, I was thinking of a different area. I don't know if that area has been searched. I do agree with you that is a good area to search. It is a thick area of foliage that does not get any traffic that I know of. Except for where the roads are.
 
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