George Zimmerman's Injuries #1

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suzihawk said:
I wonder if these medical records are the alleged medical records that O'Mara waved around in court during the bond hearing. And if they've been turned over to the SA as he said was proper in order to cross the detective?

Just curious since he seemed rather desperate to get them on record via the detective without having to wait for a discovery exchange. Since that failed, I guess the leak is the next best thing.

JMO
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These medical records are listed on the witness and evidence list that was released this week. See bottom of page seven.

http://www.scribd.com/doc/93646122/...t-filed-by-the-state-in-George-Zimmerman-case
 
suzihawk said:
I wonder if these medical records are the alleged medical records that O'Mara waved around in court during the bond hearing. And if they've been turned over to the SA as he said was proper in order to cross the detective?

Just curious since he seemed rather desperate to get them on record via the detective without having to wait for a discovery exchange. Since that failed, I guess the leak is the next best thing.

JMO
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If there's one word that I would not use to describe O'Mara's demeanor at the bond hearing, it would be desperate. He took apart the PCA with the State's own witnesses. Hoisted with their own pitard, imo.
 
One nose-related issue that has not been discussed is this:

No films were taken, and it sounds like that would've been diagnosis overkill, so I don't find fault with them for not taking that additional step.

However, films might reveal the direction of the contact that caused the break.

Some have suggested that it's possible that the injuries the dr. saw were not necessarily injuries sustained after an altercation with TM, indicating that GZ might've messed himself up a bit before going in as an attempt to create a trail of supportive evidence for himself.

Films showing the break would likely identify whether he received a punch from a left or right fist, and maybe even whether the person who hit his nose did so from a 'taller' or 'shorter' position, or if the punches to his nose were 'downward', as if he was on the ground when they occurred.
 
jjenny said:
And if it comes to trial, I am sure the doctors could get on the stand and say how he made this diagnosis.
X-rays aren't needed for every diagnosis.
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Wonder why he didn't follow up with an ear, nose and throat doctor as he was advised to do? Seems to me if it were broken this is the doctor who could tell him rather than a doctor who said it was "likely" broken. That report does not mean it was actually broken but he should treat it as if it is and follow up with a specialist, which he did not do. Obviously GZ did not feel it was broken or damaged enough to follow up on his injury. It sounds, too, as if the doctor was going by whatever input GZ provided him. If GZ told the doctor he was punched in the face 3 or 4 times I would think the doctor would conclude his nose was probably broken.

I'd like to see the report from the medics myself. jmo
 
Lovelymountains said:
Oh I think they do when a patient comes in with an injured arm or leg. In fact, an Orthopod would likely xray everyone who came to him. It would certainly alter the course of treatment. My doctor routinely orders a CBC every three months. My point is that George Zimmerman was complaining that he "Thought" his nose was broken. Probably he was saying that it hurt. If I tell my doctor that I have a persistant abdominal pain, most likely he would order tests which would include xrays. The point is, I was not suggesting that a doctor routinely xray everyone's nose. That would be silly on my part. I was suggesting that it might have been appropriate in this case to xray the nose of a person complaining of pain in that area after some kind of physical altercation, although it might not show a break or cartilage injury but on the other hand, it might. And too, there might be the danger of a facial fracture of some sort if TM had beaten him so badly that he was in fear of death.
The fact remains that no diagnosis of a broken nose was made.
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I think it is also important to note that the traveling circus of FT, GO, and RZ Sr. and Jr. all said that GZ had serious head injuries beyond the minor ones that we seem to see. Spoon fed, all that, (not to mention that shaken baby syndrome, whatever that was about). The report does not to mention getting a CAT Scan, etc. or anything about a concussion. I would say that Medical Report is positive evidence for the Prosecution because of what is missing.

MOO.
 
Karmady said:
If there's one word that I would not use to describe O'Mara's demeanor at the bond hearing, it would be desparate. He took apart the PCA with the State's own witnesses. Hoisted with their own pitard, imo.
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How so? Gilbreath answered the questions honestly and obviously everything is still going forward at this point. Gilbreath stated there were inconsistencies within the several statements GZ gave to police. I'm sure MOM did not want to hear that. jmo
 
jjenny said:
After all the complains about wanting to see medical records, I can't believe some posters here complain that medical records were leaked. All of this information is supposed to be released per Florida sunshine laws.
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I see it as being "released" after being cleared (witness names and such) and not "leaked" but that's just me.:fence:
 
beach said:
He obviously did both, Daisy.

Narratives are not uncommon, however they are usually done for a reason. I imagine both the prosecution and the defense wanted one and it was requested.
In other instances, narratives are dictated for the benefit of another physician to whom they may be referring the patient.
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I would imagine that this doctor also wanted to protect himself with the documentation. GZ told him he was not going to go to an ENT, the doctor would want to have that noted in his file. He probably also realized this was not a normal situation and his file could come under examination at some point.
 
Ninety5rpm said:
http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/Justic...-beat-bloodied-George-Zimmerman.-Game-changer

I can't believe people are still questioning this shooting. How much would you take before you felt using a gun to stop a beating was justified?
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The big problem is no one should have been pursuing TM in the first place. He had done nothing wrong. So who is the victim if the suspect was not a suspect at all but just a kid trying to get to the condo in time for the game? GZ had some serious issues he allowed to cloud his judgment and an innocent person ended up dead because of it. GZ was not just walking down the street minding his own business and was jumped by a criminal. GZ created the situation that caused the death of a minor. jmo
 
LambChop said:
The big problem is no one should have been pursuing TM in the first place. He had done nothing wrong. So who is the victim if the suspect was not a suspect at all but just a kid trying to get to the condo in time for the game? GZ had some serious issues he allowed to cloud his judgment and an innocent person ended up dead because of it. GZ was not just walking down the street minding his own business and was jumped by a criminal. GZ created the situation that caused the death of a minor. jmo
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If TM did indeed attack GZ first, what did GZ do to create the situation? By asking him what he was doing there?

Obviously if GZ attacked first the point is moot.
 
LambChop said:
How so? Gilbreath answered the questions honestly and obviously everything is still going forward at this point. Gilbreath stated there were inconsistencies within the several statements GZ gave to police. I'm sure MOM did not want to hear that. jmo
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Well, for one thing, he established that there is not, and likely never will be, any evidence of who started the physical altercation. He went pretty much line-by-line over the affidavit and pointed out each and every slanted and/or biased and/or unsupported statement in it. And, when he was done, his client, accused of murder2 in a high profile racially charged case with lots of political undertones, was released on minimal bail and permitted to leave the state.

I watched the whole thing a couple of times and agree with the commentators that he did a great job in casting doubt on all of the relevant parts of the affidavit. I don't think he's terribly concerned about the supposed inconsistent statements. The State's concept of inconsistent is likely very different than the defense's. I think O'Mara would be surprised if there were NOT some perceived inconsistencies, if not actual inconsistencies. The real question is whether they are material and/or explainable, keeping mind the State's burden of proving the crime beyond a reasonable doubt. jmo
 
LambChop said:
Wonder why he didn't follow up with an ear, nose and throat doctor as he was advised to do? Seems to me if it were broken this is the doctor who could tell him rather than a doctor who said it was "likely" broken. That report does not mean it was actually broken but he should treat it as if it is and follow up with a specialist, which he did not do. Obviously GZ did not feel it was broken or damaged enough to follow up on his injury. It sounds, too, as if the doctor was going by whatever input GZ provided him. If GZ told the doctor he was punched in the face 3 or 4 times I would think the doctor would conclude his nose was probably broken.

I'd like to see the report from the medics myself. jmo
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BBM

Any half way decent doctor is not going to go on what the patient says alone to get a diagnosis. I have been in the medical field for 15 years and never once have I seen a diagnosis made without some kind of exam of the situation. Not to mention as others have stated an xray is not needed to diagnosis a broken nose. Swelling, discoloration, touching it, moving it, and information from the patient help make a diagnosis.

:moo:
 
prayers4missing said:
BBM

Any half way decent doctor is not going to go on what the patient says alone to get a diagnosis. I have been in the medical field for 15 years and never once have I seen a diagnosis made without some kind of exam of the situation. Not to mention as others have stated an xray is not needed to diagnosis a broken nose. Swelling, discoloration, touching it, moving it, and information from the patient help make a diagnosis.

:moo:
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I'm not sure why the idea that he got a broken nose and other injuries are being downplayed when they are coming off a doctors report, the same piece of evidence that many wanted to see as proof of injuries in the first place.

Maybe it's because he really wasn't lying when he said he was injured.
 
Karmady said:
Well, for one thing, he established that there is not, and likely never will be, any evidence of who started the physical altercation. He went pretty much line-by-line over the affidavit and pointed out each and every slanted and/or biased and/or unsupported statement in it. And, when he was done, his client, accused of murder2 in a high profile racially charged case with lots of political undertones, was released on minimal bail and permitted to leave the state.

I watched the whole thing a couple of times and agree with the commentators that he did a great job in casting doubt on all of the relevant parts of the affidavit. I don't think he's terribly concerned about the supposed inconsistent statements. The State's concept of inconsistent is likely very different than the defense's. I think O'Mara would be surprised if there were NOT some perceived inconsistencies, if not actual inconsistencies. The real question is whether they are material and/or explainable, keeping mind the State's burden of proving the crime beyond a reasonable doubt. jmo
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I wonder why he's fighting the release of the discovery as allowed by the Florida Sunshine laws, if he's not 'terribly concerned', ? Or why he waived his client's right to a speedy trial? Why would he want to drag his client through a long and painful ordeal if it's a slam dunk? Aside from the money rolling in, that is?
 
wowitsdark said:
Respectfully snipped:

Films showing the break would likely identify whether he received a punch from a left or right fist, and maybe even whether the person who hit his nose did so from a 'taller' or 'shorter' position, or if the punches to his nose were 'downward', as if he was on the ground when they occurred.
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No way any imaging can tell that. He had a non displaced septum. The medscape article I posted upthread goes into great detail on comparative studies of imaging of nasal fractures, both bony and cartilage. The error rate precludes imaging as definitive proof of even the presence or absence of fracture, let alone the forces which may have caused a fracture.

http://emedicine.medscape.com/article/391863-overview
 
suzihawk said:
I wonder why he's fighting the release of the discovery as allowed by the Florida Sunshine laws, if he's not 'terribly concerned', ? Or why he waived his client's right to a speedy trial? Why would he want to drag his client through a long and painful ordeal if it's a slam dunk? Aside from the money rolling in, that is?
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Is he fighting the discovery as a whole or fighting the redaction of information pertaining to witness names, etc?
 
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