The Springfield Three--missing since June 1992 - #4

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Indianagirl said:
Welcome to the forum :) It appears you have followed this case for a long time. Do you have a theory or opinion on what you think may have happened?
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:) Hi

I have followed the case for the past couple of months actually. I am extremely interested in such cases, and in another life I would have been an investigator.

As far as my theory or opinion goes, it is really hard for me to type that out. I am a very factual person. And being that there are few facts in this case, it is tough for me to come to a concise opinion.

I can pick out bits and pieces that I do not agree with from others' theories, but that is as far as I go.

I do appriciate all of the work that has been done by a number of people on this forum and many others. It definitly helps someone like me who, when this crime actually took place, was only 10 years old.


The only bit of someones theory that has stuck a major chord with me was the person who was thinking that the perp lured the woman outside. It hits me the wrong way because of Stacy. She was in her underwear. Whether it was a smoke, or to answer the door, I cannot see Stacy doing anything outside while still just in her underwear. Maybe I have gotten the wrong impression of the 'type' of person that she was, but that's how I see it.

Therefore, in my head, she was forced out the door. And, most likely, so were the other women. Consciously, or unconsciously. But, again, in my head, they were taken from that house.
 
Indianagirl said:
Which officer are you referring to?
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Two things. Doug Thomas worked the case longer than anyone else so far as I know. Secondly, and I am going on memory, I read within the past month that it was he (and I can't cite the source) that he knew what went down. I'd give the source if I could lay my hands on it but I don't have that at hand. If that is incorrect, then I stand to be corrected. But I am reasonably certain that Thomas was in fact the longest serving detective assigned to the case.

But that aside, it isn't critical to analysis of the case. We know essentially what happened based on known and extrapolated facts. We know all about Cox and we know all about "Steve." We also know the polygraphs are for all intents and purposes worthless. The motives are clear enough to me. Cox did what he did for much the same reason that Ted Bundy did what he did. "Steve" couldn't keep out of the newspapers with his rampage during the early 1990s. Cox worked the area; has no alibi and even refuses to deny he did the crime yet categorically states he knows they are dead and are buried in the Springfield area. He refers to "Steve" in one of his own letters. The exact connection is not known but I would be astounded if they didn't know each other on more than a mere casual relationship. I suspect "Steve" came into the crime after the fact but I believe the "plot" was concocted by Cox and "X." Cox did what he liked to do and "X" had a motive. "Steve" most probably was invited in to enjoy the spoils. Can I prove any of this? No. But it is what I believe.
 
Missouri Mule said:
Two things. Doug Thomas worked the case longer than anyone else so far as I know. Secondly, and I am going on memory, I read within the past month that it was he (and I can't cite the source) that he knew what went down. I'd give the source if I could lay my hands on it but I don't have that at hand. If that is incorrect, then I stand to be corrected. But I am reasonably certain that Thomas was in fact the longest serving detective assigned to the case.

But that aside, it isn't critical to analysis of the case. We know essentially what happened based on known and extrapolated facts. We know all about Cox and we know all about "Steve." We also know the polygraphs are for all intents and purposes worthless. The motives are clear enough to me. Cox did what he did for much the same reason that Ted Bundy did what he did. "Steve" couldn't keep out of the newspapers with his rampage during the early 1990s. Cox worked the area; has no alibi and even refuses to deny he did the crime yet categorically states he knows they are dead and are buried in the Springfield area. He refers to "Steve" in one of his own letters. The exact connection is not known but I would be astounded if they didn't know each other on more than a mere casual relationship. I suspect "Steve" came into the crime after the fact but I believe the "plot" was concocted by Cox and "X." Cox did what he liked to do and "X" had a motive. "Steve" most probably was invited in to enjoy the spoils. Can I prove any of this? No. But it is what I believe.
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Thanks. I figured you were referring to Thomas but just wanted to double check. I think I've read the same about Thomas. He thought he had a good idea of what happened, but no evidence. As time went by, he was the only officer working the case, with assistance from the FBI.

IMO, if Steve and Cox knew each other, LE would have somehow been able to make a connection, but as far as we know they haven't. That makes me think it's too much of a long shot to believe they did know one another.
 
Missouri Mule said:
Two things. Doug Thomas worked the case longer than anyone else so far as I know. Secondly, and I am going on memory, I read within the past month that it was he (and I can't cite the source) that he knew what went down. I'd give the source if I could lay my hands on it but I don't have that at hand. If that is incorrect, then I stand to be corrected. But I am reasonably certain that Thomas was in fact the longest serving detective assigned to the case.

But that aside, it isn't critical to analysis of the case. We know essentially what happened based on known and extrapolated facts. We know all about Cox and we know all about "Steve." We also know the polygraphs are for all intents and purposes worthless. The motives are clear enough to me. Cox did what he did for much the same reason that Ted Bundy did what he did. "Steve" couldn't keep out of the newspapers with his rampage during the early 1990s. Cox worked the area; has no alibi and even refuses to deny he did the crime yet categorically states he knows they are dead and are buried in the Springfield area. He refers to "Steve" in one of his own letters. The exact connection is not known but I would be astounded if they didn't know each other on more than a mere casual relationship. I suspect "Steve" came into the crime after the fact but I believe the "plot" was concocted by Cox and "X." Cox did what he liked to do and "X" had a motive. "Steve" most probably was invited in to enjoy the spoils. Can I prove any of this? No. But it is what I believe.
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I assume you are referring to the 'Steve' Cox talks about in his letters to KY-3? Do we have any further information on this man?

My other question is; Do you have an individual in mind for 'X'? Or is this just your belief? That there was a 3rd, but you don't have a name for this person? Do you think that this is the individual who was somehow connected to one or more of the women? Hense why he is the one with the motive?

I am also assuming that this is all based on Cox being part of this. Do you put any stock in those that say he is just saying all of this for attention purposes?
 
MHamby said:
I assume you are referring to the 'Steve' Cox talks about in his letters to KY-3? Do we have any further information on this man?

My other question is; Do you have an individual in mind for 'X'? Or is this just your belief? That there was a 3rd, but you don't have a name for this person? Do you think that this is the individual who was somehow connected to one or more of the women? Hense why he is the one with the motive?

I am also assuming that this is all based on Cox being part of this. Do you put any stock in those that say he is just saying all of this for attention purposes?
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I am reluctant to put names to people on mere supposition or inference. But I think most people here would be able to figure out who these "persons of interest" would actually be. I'll just have to leave it there.

It is entirely possible that most people believe Cox is just attention seeking. That is reasonable. It is also reasonable and proven that he is a psychopath who had the means, the motive and the opportunity. We can't tie him to the van but obviously it is not unreasonable to conclude that he could have obtained one in any number of ways. It will never be found. That was probably true on the very day the women were found.

I will add this. The Zellers in Florida whose daughter was murdered were certain beyond that any doubt tht when Cox was cut loose off death row by the Florida Supremes that he would again murder, given the chance. When they came to learn of the abductions in Springfield and where Cox was (and he was also a native of Springfield) they correctly believed, in my view, that he was the most logical of logical suspects. I believe it is correct to state that the SPD was unaware of Cox until they were contacted by the Zellers family within a few days of the abductions. I find their arguments quite persuasive. I also believe that Cox is a probably a serial murderer.
 
Indianagirl said:
I agree with everyone. Polygraphs should not be used to eliminate suspects. In this case,
I have never seen it printed anywhere that a POI was eliminated solely based on a polygraph
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they took.
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I agree and think that you are correct with the facts concerning those eliminated from the suspect pool. A passed poly should not eliminate a suspect in and of itself. But it cannot be said that someone is included in the suspect pool because they passed, but without further evidence. In the early weeks of the investigation it is reported that 21 polys were given; 20 people passed and 1 failed. We have no idea how many polys have been given since. Let’s suppose that the 20 people who did pass were somehow able to control their blood pressure, galvanic skin response, heart rate, etc. that a poly is said to measure and that they all should have failed and remain suspects. Other evidence needs to be developed in order for a suspect to remain in the suspect pool. That was obviously not done by SPD on those who were eliminated.
 
Gotcha.

I hope you don't think that I am 'pushing' in any way, I just like to play devils advocate, because I like to see a situation from every angle.

I actually tend to agree with you and the Zellers that he is a serial murder, I am just torn between him actually knowing anything about this case, or trying to milk the attention.

Is there actual documentation about Cox being diagnosed as a Psychopath or is that is that your, and others', opinion based on numerous amounts of evidence?

Last thing, has there been a discussion on this forum about 'Steve'?

That has always been the one thing that piqued my curiosity more than anything: the grand jury testimonies.
 
Indianagirl said:
Thanks. I figured you were referring to Thomas but just wanted to double check. I think I've read the same about Thomas. He thought he had a good idea of what happened, but no evidence. As time went by, he was the only officer working the case, with assistance from the FBI.

IMO, if Steve and Cox knew each other, LE would have somehow been able to make a connection, but as far as we know they haven't. That makes me think it's too much of a long shot to believe they did know one another.
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Det. Doug Thomas worked with and on the information provided by Garrison (which led to the dig on the Robb farm) starting shortly after Garrison’s arrest in July 1993 on the weapons violation until at least Dec 1993. When some of the other members of the SPD gave up on the Garrison story Thomas did not. In Dec when Thomas last commented publicly about Garrison’s information before the gag order came down from the DA’s office he said, ““It has credibility.” “…as lead investigator, I’m not ready to abandon this.”

I don’t know of any comments that Thomas made about Cox.

Garrison was not released from prison until May 15th, 1992 and returned to Springfield after that. He and Cox had never done time in the same prison and since Garrison had been locked up since 5/1980 it is hard to believe that they could have become acquainted and fast friends in just 3 weeks prior to the abduction of the women.
 
Hurricane said:
Det. Doug Thomas worked with and on the information provided by Garrison (which led to the dig on the Robb farm) starting shortly after Garrison’s arrest in July 1993 on the weapons violation until at least Dec 1993. When some of the other members of the SPD gave up on the Garrison story Thomas did not. In Dec when Thomas last commented publicly about Garrison’s information before the gag order came down from the DA’s office he said, ““It has credibility.” “…as lead investigator, I’m not ready to abandon this.”

I don’t know of any comments that Thomas made about Cox.

Garrison was not released from prison until May 15th, 1992 and returned to Springfield after that. He and Cox had never done time in the same prison and since Garrison had been locked up since 5/1980 it is hard to believe that they could have become acquainted and fast friends in just 3 weeks prior to the abduction of the women.
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That's always been my problem with the Garrison/Cox theory. The timeline is too tight. Another thing, when Garrison was introduced into the picture, Cox was never mentioned. Once Cox was mentioned, all of a sudden he knew a "Steve." I think that's pretty convenient!
 
I'm sorry that I have to ask this, but as I am kind of new to this site, I'm not sure how to proceed. Is there a way to send a 'Personal Message' to an individual person on here that only they can see? If so, how do I go about doing that?
 
Indianagirl said:
That's always been my problem with the Garrison/Cox theory. The timeline is too tight. Another thing, when Garrison was introduced into the picture, Cox was never mentioned. Once Cox was mentioned, all of a sudden he knew a "Steve." I think that's pretty convenient!
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Excellent point! Garrison has never mentioned Cox.

Garrison’s two prison buddies who he had served time with were both born, raised, arrested and served their prison years all in the state of Kansas. In spite of having family ties to Kansas one of these buddies managed to be paroled to Missouri. The other one was paroled in Kansas but absconded and came to Missouri and joined up with the other two. These guys were together from then on until just after the abduction. There is no connection with Cox.
 
MHamby said:
I'm sorry that I have to ask this, but as I am kind of new to this site, I'm not sure how to proceed. Is there a way to send a 'Personal Message' to an individual person on here that only they can see? If so, how do I go about doing that?
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I believe you have to make 50 posts before you can private message another member.
 
I believe when Cox referred to Garrison, he was mentioning current events and intentionally leading people down the very path that people have gone down on these boards. Does Cox know Garrison? That sort of headgame that has been played. That is a large part of the reason I believe the man doesnt know jack. IF Cox knew Garrison, I mean one person who could link them beyond a rumor would likely have something. These are the only 2 people who have claimed knowledge of what happened.
 
Hurricane: Sorry about cropping your post. The only reason I did that was because it was a big post and I only wanted part of it. I wasn't trying to take your post out of context.

So where does this leave us on our list of potential suspects. I really think that the list is pretty small. That is if we're all barking up the right tree...so to speak.
I truely believe that someone that KNEW them was involved. Its just my opinion, but thats what my gut is telling me. I also don't think that Cox being involved some how can't be ruled out. I just don't think that this was a random, unthought out crime. I've also wondered if it was a crime of REVENGE, or a crime of a SEXUAL nature. Was the brother so mad at the mother that he decided to pay her back on her daughters graduation night...and somehow the daughter inadvertantly came back home and ended up in the middle of it. Or was it a crime of a sexual nature. Committed on Graduation Night...a night that would have surely had a lot of potental VICTIM's out and about.
 
Indianagirl said:
That's always been my problem with the Garrison/Cox theory. The timeline is too tight. Another thing, when Garrison was introduced into the picture, Cox was never mentioned. Once Cox was mentioned, all of a sudden he knew a "Steve." I think that's pretty convenient!
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Actually, I am more persuaded about the relationship of Cox and "X" than I am with Cox and "Steve." I believe it is more likely than not that "Steve" came into the picture after the abductions in a serious way. However, it was the possible relationship between Cox and "X" that I believe precipitated this crime. It also runs parallel to the profiler's take on an individual or individuals who "didn't feel good" (paraphrasing) about the crime.

Personally, I think Cox is capable of anything he wants to do. The only rational reason I can think of that he hasn't broken silence is because he believes he will one day be paroled out of the Texas maximum facility in Lovelady, Texas. I don't think that is likely, but it could and it is that slender reed that drives him in my view. So while he gets the attention he doesn't admit or deny the crime thus depriving the prosecution of moving forward on indicting him. They have no proof he did it; only circumstantial evidence/surmise based on his lack of alibi, ready access and past history. But nothing to tie him to the crime. Even if the police are convinced to a certainty he did it, without the physical proof the prosecution will not proceed with the case because they know they cannot win a conviction.
 
Missouri Mule and others, I have found the news article in my files regarding Det. Thomas' statement. It is to be found in the June 7, 1994 News-Leader, p.1B and 3B. Thomas is quoted as saying,"we have a motive"..."we believe we are on a track that will be very profitable", and further down the page, "I've know what precipated this thing from almost day one." On the other side of the coin, Officer Todd Whitson (same rank, if I remember) states, "We need evidence, we need confessions"...."Until we have solid information all we're doing is speculating."
 
dale417 said:
Missouri Mule and others, I have found the news article in my files regarding Det. Thomas' statement. It is to be found in the June 7, 1994 News-Leader, p.1B and 3B. Thomas is quoted as saying,"we have a motive"..."we believe we are on a track that will be very profitable", and further down the page, "I've know what precipated this thing from almost day one." On the other side of the coin, Officer Todd Whitson (same rank, if I remember) states, "We need evidence, we need confessions"...."Until we have solid information all we're doing is speculating."
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Those are remarkable observations if based on facts. So, it appears that the police more likely than not know what went down but more importantly have filled in the missing motive we have yet to pin down. Reading between the lines it suggests, if not confirms, this was not a crime of opportunity. It was a planned operation, by an experienced predator in my view. The connection of him to other(s) would be the key to understanding this case.
 
dale417 said:
Missouri Mule and others, I have found the news article in my files regarding Det. Thomas' statement. It is to be found in the June 7, 1994 News-Leader, p.1B and 3B. Thomas is quoted as saying,"we have a motive"..."we believe we are on a track that will be very profitable", and further down the page, "I've know what precipated this thing from almost day one." On the other side of the coin, Officer Todd Whitson (same rank, if I remember) states, "We need evidence, we need confessions"...."Until we have solid information all we're doing is speculating."
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So with that said...I wonder what their "Motive" is, and I wonder what they knew to make them make a statement like... "I've known what precipated this thing from almost day one".

Anyone want to offer an idea?
 
monkeymann said:
So with that said...I wonder what their "Motive" is, and I wonder what they knew to make them make a statement like... "I've known what precipated this thing from almost day one".

Anyone want to offer an idea?
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I would suggest money as the precipitating factor and Cox was the instrument to carry out the crime. It is said that money is the root of all evil and I suspect in the end this will be the genesis of this crime. In the end we will probably find that this is not as complicated as we would sometimes think.
 
Missouri Mule said:
Those are remarkable observations if based on facts. So, it appears that the police more likely than not know what went down but more importantly have filled in the missing motive we have yet to pin down. Reading between the lines it suggests, if not confirms, this was not a crime of opportunity. It was a planned operation, by an experienced predator in my view. The connection of him to other(s) would be the key to understanding this case.
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Sexual assault was the motive based on the information they had at the time. 4 seperate agencies agreed on this. So with that being said you have come to RAPE as the motive. This does not confirm this being planned or not planned, we dont have enough information to make that determination. Looking at the criminal history of Cox or Garrison an argument could be made either direction.
 
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