Lisa has been missing over four months now (poll)

4Jacy · Feb 8, 2012

vlpate said:
Firm - but not about HOW it happened. My belief is firm that no one outside of the house initiated Lisa being taken out of the home.

DB jumping out of bed when Jeremy asked what was going on with the lights on, the door unlocked, and the window open.

Jeremy talking about what happened after he confronted DB about the lights, etc.: "She kinda jumped up out of bed, like something was wrong, and that was the first time I thought something might actually be wrong."

Why was she so alarmed by those three things?? She left the window open, she goes back and forth now with whether or not she turned out ALL the lights, and leaving a door unlocked is usually just a mistake.... all relatively innocent unless you are waking out of a drunk sleep and you're memory is triggered to the night before.

I've been that drunk before, in my early twenties - I remember waking up and the memory of what I had done the night before came slowly creeping in, then I saw the deer's head on the couch and was startled wide awake - pacing in front of the poor deer, everything coming back to me like a slow video rewind. I was all like, OMG, what did I do - and as more embarrassing bits and pieces started to come back, regret or not, I knew I had to own the night. Did I feel bad? Yeah, I shouldn't have stolen the deer head from the bar....but it was a good dancer Now this would happen if she were totally sloshed and uninhibited in whatever she did the night before - so drunk that whatever she had to do, had to be done quick because she was about to pass out.

Now if she blacked out, she wouldn't remember a thing. She'd have probably said to Jeremy, "yeah, so, turn the lights off and lock the door!". She certainly wouldn't go from zero to 60 thinking something horrible had happened to her kids on a normal day of Jeremy biatching.

Did DB experience a sudden blast of recall, triggered by Jeremys questioning about the condition of the house, or is she just that protective as a mother?

Even though I was sure how it was going to end (the deer head), you did have me going ZIKES for a minute.

You're right about DB going from zero to 60 if that was all that was wrong. In fact, I would have been a little annoyed if my DH woke me up just about that, especially if I had to get up in a few hours to get the kids off to school. Good catch, vlpate! :seeya:

iamnotagolem · Feb 8, 2012

I get the DB is overweight, a smoker, and out of shape; but I have friends who are far more overweight and out of shape and I'm 100% sure if they had a dead body they needed to dispose of they could carry it to the river.

We're not talking about her hiding phones, it's a dead body. This ranks in the high importance category.

Lisa weighed 30 lbs according to DB, I seriously doubt she weighed that much based on the photos, certainly she could carry her to the river and drop her in. Even in "rough terrain", we're not talking a 1000 ft change in elevation, it was a trip to the river.

Not that I personally support that theory, it is very plausible and certainly not impossible.

IHAVENOCLUE · Feb 8, 2012

I am on the fence about the WHO and HOW...but I strongly feel DB and JI know pretty much what happened. Inconsistencies in their stories and letting their lawyer spin for them when answering important questions both lead me to believe that there is guilt there.

Sparklin · Feb 8, 2012

iamnotagolem said:
I get the DB is overweight, a smoker, and out of shape; but I have friends who are far more overweight and out of shape and I'm 100% sure if they had a dead body they needed to dispose of they could carry it to the river.

We're not talking about her hiding phones, it's a dead body. This ranks in the high importance category.

Lisa weighed 30 lbs according to DB, I seriously doubt she weighed that much based on the photos, certainly she could carry her to the river and drop her in. Even in "rough terrain", we're not talking a 1000 ft change in elevation, it was a trip to the river.

Not that I personally support that theory, it is very plausible and certainly not impossible.

If Deb had to carry Lisa to the river, I'm sure she could too, taking her time and possibly resting every now and then... But factoring in that she had just killed her daughter, that Jeremy could be pulling into the drive, that she was drinking, that the boys could wake up, she was in a MAJOR rush and probably freaking out...it was dark, people in the area have said to walk it, you would have to traverse DOWN an incline that is not smooth sailing...not to mention accessing voicemail/internet on her way there...carrying Lisa of course ~ and LE has found not a trace of anything suspicious with her clothing and/or shoes?? Can't possibly add that she would have time to clean her shoes off without a trace.

Donjeta · Feb 8, 2012

There might have been several pairs of dirty shoes in the home and we wouldn't know. IMO it would prove nothing at this point because LE has no way to prove any dirty shoes are connected to Lisa's disappearance without evidence where she was taken.

iamnotagolem · Feb 8, 2012

Sparklin said:
If Deb had to carry Lisa to the river, I'm sure she could too, taking her time and possibly resting every now and then... But factoring in that she had just killed her daughter, that Jeremy could be pulling into the drive, that she was drinking, that the boys could wake up, she was in a MAJOR rush and probably freaking out...it was dark, people in the area have said to walk it, you would have to traverse DOWN an incline that is not smooth sailing...not to mention accessing voicemail/internet on her way there...carrying Lisa of course ~ and LE has found not a trace of anything suspicious with her clothing and/or shoes?? Can't possibly add that she would have time to clean her shoes off without a trace.

Why would she need to clean her shoes off? There has been very little precipitation in the area, they likely wouldn't be muddy. It's a 15 min walk down to the river. There is also no reason to believe JI wasn't also involved in it. Maybe he came home to a dead Lisa and he walked her down or drove her down and dropped her in the river. There are endless possibilities as to how/when/where they disposed of Lisa.

Again, not my top theory but it's pretty doable.

In da Middle · Feb 8, 2012

iamnotagolem said:
Why would she need to clean her shoes off? There has been very little precipitation in the area, they likely wouldn't be muddy. It's a 15 min walk down to the river. There is also no reason to believe JI wasn't also involved in it. Maybe he came home to a dead Lisa and he walked her down or drove her down and dropped her in the river. There are endless possibilities as to how/when/where they disposed of Lisa.

Again, not my top theory but it's pretty doable.

No. As a person who has ACTUALLY walked to the river, it is not a 15 minute walk and she would even take longer as I live closer to it. It might take 15 minutes to the AREA of the river, but more to actually get TO the river. Then you have to factor that she would also have to walk BACK to the house also. It is not as easy as it looks just by looking at a map. Been there, done that many times.
The closest, easiest place to get to the river would also more than likely have drivers sitting in the parking area waiting for the grain elevator to open as is more common than not at that time of year. It would also depend on if any rail cars were waiting on the track blocking the path to the river also waiting in line for the elevator to open. Otherwise anybody would have to walk even further to get TO the river. The area just south of N Brighton is fenced off and wooded.

And, yes, to actually get TO the river, it was muddy because the river was still receding from major flooding that happened over the summer, even though this area was in drought. The river had gone down about a foot or so in recent weeks, leaving mud and undercut banks making actually getting TO the river harder than usual.

RANCH · Feb 8, 2012

In da Middle said:
No. As a person who has ACTUALLY walked to the river, it is not a 15 minute walk and she would even take longer as I live closer to it. It might take 15 minutes to the AREA of the river, but more to actually get TO the river. Then you have to factor that she would also have to walk BACK to the house also. It is not as easy as it looks just by looking at a map. Been there, done that many times.
The closest, easiest place to get to the river would also more than likely have drivers sitting in the parking area waiting for the grain elevator to open as is more common than not at that time of year. It would also depend on if any rail cars were waiting on the track blocking the path to the river also waiting in line for the elevator to open. Otherwise anybody would have to walk even further to get TO the river. The area just south of N Brighton is fenced off and wooded.

Thanks again for bringing a local perspective to the forum.

GoodGurl · Feb 8, 2012

RANCH said:
Thanks again for bringing a local perspective to the forum.

If you don't mind me asking also, the boys go to the elementary school behind the Lister house, correct? Do the kids from the neighborhood walk there, and what route do they take?

I apologize in advance if asked and answered, I couldn't find it anywhere.

and TIA.

RANCH · Feb 8, 2012

GoodGurl said:
If you don't mind me asking also, the boys go to the elementary school behind the Lister house, correct? Do the kids from the neighborhood walk there, and what route do they take?

I apologize in advance if asked and answered, I couldn't find it anywhere.

and TIA.

I believe that In da Middle can help you. I'm not a local.

In da Middle · Feb 8, 2012

GoodGurl said:
If you don't mind me asking also, the boys go to the elementary school behind the Lister house, correct? Do the kids from the neighborhood walk there, and what route do they take?

I apologize in advance if asked and answered, I couldn't find it anywhere.

and TIA.

They are technically considered walkers as we are too close to get bus service. Most do not walk though and are driven to and from school. The only 2 ways to walk to the school are going through the park and having to cross the creek or walking down Parvin Rd which is a very busy road and not safe for the kids to walk along then walk down Jackson which is even worse because it is narrow with no sidewalks and add school buses and vehicle traffic. Almost all of the kids from this neighborhood are riders but not bus riders.

In da Middle · Feb 8, 2012

Donjeta said:
There might have been several pairs of dirty shoes in the home and we wouldn't know. IMO it would prove nothing at this point because LE has no way to prove any dirty shoes are connected to Lisa's disappearance without evidence where she was taken.

River mud is very different than average mud from a yard. LE had the house for several days. This should have been taken in consideration. River mud stinks.

DeAnn · Feb 8, 2012

Donjeta said:
There might have been several pairs of dirty shoes in the home and we wouldn't know. IMO it would prove nothing at this point because LE has no way to prove any dirty shoes are connected to Lisa's disappearance without evidence where she was taken.

How did Debbie or anyone manage to avoid leaving any footprints??? There would be footprints on the river bank. And police and firefighters immediately searched along the river in that area.

In da Middle · Feb 8, 2012

DeAnn said:
How did Debbie or anyone manage to avoid leaving any footprints??? There would be footprints on the river bank. And police and firefighters immediately searched along the river in that area.

Adding to this, it is also where they put their command center.

StrayKat · Feb 8, 2012

Casts of footprints were taken. The sightings by neighbors of the handyman carrying a baby and his route of travel is where the prints were casted. Too many sightings of the same individual within a few hours... as well as, the phone call received on his ex-girlfriends phone, from the one of the stolen phones. The local LE going door-to-door showing his picture and asking if he had been seen in the area that day. Him squating at the house down the street for months, then LE tearing it down and searching the well. Him being arrested for outstanding warrants. Those clues have not changed IMO. This is all MOO!

StrayKat · Feb 8, 2012

They did not immediately search the river from what I remember.

In da Middle · Feb 8, 2012

StrayKat said:
They did not immediately search the river from what I remember.

Yes it was searched that very morning. Fire and Rescue coincidentally had a river search training session scheduled that very day and was put into use.

melissasmom · Feb 8, 2012

In da Middle said:
They are technically considered walkers as we are too close to get bus service. Most do not walk though and are driven to and from school. The only 2 ways to walk to the school are going through the park and having to cross the creek or walking down Parvin Rd which is a very busy road and not safe for the kids to walk along then walk down Jackson which is even worse because it is narrow with no sidewalks and add school buses and vehicle traffic. Almost all of the kids from this neighborhood are riders but not bus riders.

In da Middle, I was wondering, do you know how DB gets the boys to school? If none of the kids take the bus, and DB doesn't drive, how do the boys get to and from? Just curious.

vlpate · Feb 8, 2012

DeAnn said:
How did Debbie or anyone manage to avoid leaving any footprints??? There would be footprints on the river bank. And police and firefighters immediately searched along the river in that area.

I don't recall hearing anything from LE one way or the other.

highflyer · Feb 8, 2012

melissasmom said:
In da Middle, I was wondering, do you know how DB gets the boys to school? If none of the kids take the bus, and DB doesn't drive, how do the boys get to and from? Just curious.

Please don't take this the wrong way, because it is not intended toward you in any way shape or form, but with one missing child it scares me discussing how those boys get to and from school.

Lisa has been missing over four months now (poll)

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