2010.06.13 Kyron's case turns to Criminal investigation-Why?

BeanE said:

The poly on the 19th may have been the third poly.

Finster didn't report any poly failures, only that Terri was taking another one.

You could add M Cook on the 30th starting the sexting.

But I thought we were looking at the timeframe prior to June 13?

Click to expand...

I think Terri's failed (IMO) polygraph was probably taken before June 13th. What day was it that Gates cried at the PC? IIRC, you have posted that that was the same day that Terri allegedly failed her first polygraph.

Apparently, Finster was under the impression that the polygraph that Terri didn't want to take was her second one. "After taking one polygraph test, Finster said, Horman is taking another one Saturday and 'she's not very happy about it.'" http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2010/06/friend_says_terry_moulton_horm.html

Isn't the July 19th poly the one she walked out of?

STEADFAST said:

I think Terri's failed (IMO) polygraph was probably taken before June 13th. What day was it that Gates cried at the PC? IIRC, you have posted that that was the same day that Terri allegedly failed her first polygraph.

Apparently, Finster was under the impression that the polygraph that Terri didn't want to take was her second one. "After taking one polygraph test, Finster said, Horman is taking another one Saturday and 'she's not very happy about it.'" http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2010/06/friend_says_terry_moulton_horm.html

Isn't the July 19th poly the one she walked out of?

Click to expand...

June 7 was her first, the day Gates cried.

See, I thought the 3rd one was June 26th, but then I found some indications that it was actually the 19th, and that the second was earlier. I think some people in the case are calling the 3rd one the 2nd one because she didn't actually take the 2nd one - she walked out.

I just haven't been able to find anything yet to resolve it and confirm the dates. It's making me crazy. I still have a few Kaine/Desiree interviews to listen to again that might help firm it up, but meantime, the best date for the 2nd one I can come up with is around June 9th. I really think it was the latter half of that week, but I have nothing except somewhat vague references from Kaine right now, like I said, nothing solid yet.

I'll post about the whole thing after I listen to the other interviews and see what's there, so I can get feedback on what people think the dates most likely are based on what I've found.

I really shouldn't have mentioned it at all until I was finished, because all I've done is confuse things more lol. But since we're talking about the timeframe of just before the 13th, I thought I bring up that the 2nd poly may have been in there.

Sorry. I really didn't mean to confuse things.

BeanE said:

June 7 was her first, the day Gates cried.

See, I thought the 3rd one was June 26th, but then I found some indications that it was actually the 19th, and that the second was earlier. I think some people in the case are calling the 3rd one the 2nd one because she didn't actually take the 2nd one - she walked out.

I just haven't been able to find anything yet to resolve it and confirm the dates. It's making me crazy. I still have a few Kaine/Desiree interviews to listen to again that might help firm it up, but meantime, the best date for the 2nd one I can come up with is around June 9th. I really think it was the latter half of that week, but I have nothing except somewhat vague references from Kaine right now, like I said, nothing solid yet.

I'll post about the whole thing after I listen to the other interviews and see what's there, so I can get feedback on what people think the dates most likely are based on what I've found.

I really shouldn't have mentioned it at all until I was finished, because all I've done is confuse things more lol. But since we're talking about the timeframe of just before the 13th, I thought I bring up that the 2nd poly may have been in there.

Sorry. I really didn't mean to confuse things.

Click to expand...

It's very possible that Terri didn't mention the 2nd poly to Finster, so that may be why Finster's input doesn't correlate -- she thought Terri was about to take a second polygraph on the 19th, when Terri was really taking a third polygraph then. It would definitely make sense that Terri would have been re-polygraphed (for whatever reason ) at rather short intervals, instead of waiting a couple of weeks between polys.

The 1st poly was June 7. (25 minute interview with the Oregonian on audio)

The 2nd poly was 2 or 3 days after the first. (Link below). June 9 or June 10.

The 3rd poly was about 10 days later. (Link below). That would be June 19 or June 20. So what Jaymie Finster is calling the second poly on June 19, is, as I've been suspecting, actually the third poly.

This is one of the audio clips from the interviews of Kaine and Desiree with Willamette Week:

http://media.wweek.com/attach/2010/07/09/polygraph.mp3

Phew! That one took me weeks to pin down. Sorry about the previous confusion.

But... now the second poly definitely falls in the timeframe we're looking at, just prior to June 13th when Kyron's case was declared a criminal investigation. There may have been some influence from her walking out on this 2nd poly to the decision to go with a criminal investigation.

Good job BeanE, you are never confusing, you always keep us straight and thank you for that!

BeanE said:

The 1st poly was June 7. (25 minute interview with the Oregonian on audio)

The 2nd poly was 2 or 3 days after the first. (Link below). June 9 or June 10.

The 3rd poly was about 10 days later. (Link below). That would be June 19 or June 20. So what Jaymie Finster is calling the second poly on June 19, is, as I've been suspecting, actually the third poly.

This is one of the audio clips from the interviews of Kaine and Desiree with Willamette Week:

http://media.wweek.com/attach/2010/07/09/polygraph.mp3

Phew! That one took me weeks to pin down. Sorry about the previous confusion.

But... now the second poly definitely falls in the timeframe we're looking at, just prior to June 13th when Kyron's case was declared a criminal investigation. There may have been some influence from her walking out on this 2nd poly to the decision to go with a criminal investigation.

Click to expand...

Thank you so much for getting that straight for us -

I think it was based on logic. They had already been in touch with experts to determine how long Kyron could survive if he had walked off in the woods somewhere and had become lost.

After over a week of searching and not finding Kyron in the surrounding area, they had no other alternative, except to believe that someone had taken Kyron away from the school, and was keeping him from his family.

IMO

BeanE said:

The 1st poly was June 7. (25 minute interview with the Oregonian on audio)

The 2nd poly was 2 or 3 days after the first. (Link below). June 9 or June 10.

The 3rd poly was about 10 days later. (Link below). That would be June 19 or June 20. So what Jaymie Finster is calling the second poly on June 19, is, as I've been suspecting, actually the third poly.

This is one of the audio clips from the interviews of Kaine and Desiree with Willamette Week:

http://media.wweek.com/attach/2010/07/09/polygraph.mp3

Phew! That one took me weeks to pin down. Sorry about the previous confusion.

But... now the second poly definitely falls in the timeframe we're looking at, just prior to June 13th when Kyron's case was declared a criminal investigation. There may have been some influence from her walking out on this 2nd poly to the decision to go with a criminal investigation.

Click to expand...

thanks beane. I'd been under the impression that the 3rd poly was on the weekend KH moved out. I'm sure I got that idea from MSM or WS or both. In your *travels* have you found where that (my misconception) came from?

wondering1 said:

thanks beane. I'd been under the impression that the 3rd poly was on the weekend KH moved out. I'm sure I got that idea from MSM or WS or both. In your *travels* have you found where that (my misconception) came from?

Click to expand...

Not to speak for BeanE, but I do recall that TH was at a meeting with LE on the Saturday afternoon that Kaine and the baby moved out. She came home from that meeting and the MFH sting happened right after that.

Maybe you are thinking of that meeting?

gwenabob said:

Not to speak for BeanE, but I do recall that TH was at a meeting with LE on the Saturday afternoon that Kaine and the baby moved out. She came home from that meeting and the MFH sting happened right after that.

Maybe you are thinking of that meeting?

Click to expand...

I seem to remember that, as well, Gwen.

gwenabob said:

Not to speak for BeanE, but I do recall that TH was at a meeting with LE on the Saturday afternoon that Kaine and the baby moved out. She came home from that meeting and the MFH sting happened right after that.

Maybe you are thinking of that meeting?

Click to expand...

Thank you! Yes, it must have been the *meeting*. Wonder what that was about...

wondering1 said:

thanks beane. I'd been under the impression that the 3rd poly was on the weekend KH moved out. I'm sure I got that idea from MSM or WS or both. In your *travels* have you found where that (my misconception) came from?

Click to expand...

Yes, reporters stating as fact that the 3rd poly was on the day Kaine moved out. And they may have actually picked that up from Kaine. He has an interview in which he talks about both the 3rd poly and moving out in the same interview, and close together, and you do get the impression that he means they were on the same day.

But back when I was in the process of trying to determine where the myth about Kaine saying Terri failed 2 polys came from, I saw the articles in which Finster said Terri was taking taking a 2nd poly on the 19th, then that she didn't know if Terri had. Which made it look like Terri had put it off until the 26th when Kaine left. Except I noticed there was nothing specifying when the 2nd (the real 2nd) one had happened.

Somewhere in there I got the idea that the 3rd poly was being referred to as the 2nd, which really is correct - the 2nd poly wasn't a poly - Terri walked out and didn't take it.

So I just started tracking and trying to find out a definitive date or timeframe for both the 2nd and the 3rd poly. Came across one interview in which Kaine says Terri put off a poly, and figured that one had to be the 3rd.

It was driving me crazy so I put it on hold until this thread came up, and I realized the date of that 2nd poly really was important for reference, so as I've been collecting the interviews for the thread in the reference forum, I've been watching/listening to try to pick up what I could, and happened on to the Willamette Week clip today.

Needles in haystacks. I love 'em. Well... I love the needles. The haystacks - not so much.

Apologies if this is too o/t but .....

The public is not privy to questions asked during a polygraph session. We can wager an educated, well informed guess but we must acknowledge that we can only assume so far. Nor can we assume that Desiree, Tony, Kaine, and Terri were asked the same questions.

Now, just for arguments sake, lets pretend that LE asked Terri something like .....

Mrs. Horman, do you have reason to believe that your husband has knowledge of Kyrons whereabouts ?

What if she answered No. BUT (big but here, I know, but humor me) what if behind that No there was uncertainty, a nagging doubt in the back of her mind. That could have shown on the poly as an indication of deception. We do not know what question gave indicators of deception.

I guess what I am trying to say is bringing her in for a repeat poly does not automatically mean that she incriminated herself during a previous exam. It is always possible that she was trying to protect someone else and failed miserably.

Just came across this. Posting for reference:

"At this point, it hasn't reached the level that we are looking at this as a crime."

LE (Staton), June 11

http://www.cnn.com/2010/CRIME/06/11/oregon.missing.boy/index.html?eref=rss_crime