UT -Susan Powell, 28, West Valley City, 6 Dec 2009 - #6

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DomCasual said:
Just playing devil's advocate here. If a person really went sledding, they would probably return soaking wet - especially if they went sledding for three hours. They get home, take off all their wet snow pants, coats, etc, and they dump them on the floor by the door. Then, they go change. Josh comes back, sees the now-melted snow from the clothes all over the floor, and gets a couple fans to dry it.

I'm guessing it's something like that he probably told police.

The question would be - why not come in through the garage. But the wet spot seems a little like a red herring to me. It would seem that if there was anything damning in the carpet, he'd be arrested and in jail right now.[/QUOTE]

It's interesting that the word used to describe the spot is "wet" not something like "dark spot" or even "stained." It does lend itself to the possibility that the spot may not be blood.
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DomCasual said:
Just playing devil's advocate here. If a person really went sledding, they would probably return soaking wet - especially if they went sledding for three hours. They get home, take off all their wet snow pants, coats, etc, and they dump them on the floor by the door. Then, they go change. Josh comes back, sees the now-melted snow from the clothes all over the floor, and gets a couple fans to dry it.

I'm guessing it's something like that he probably told police.

The question would be - why not come in through the garage. But the wet spot seems a little like a red herring to me. It would seem that if there was anything damning in the carpet, he'd be arrested and in jail right now.
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My reasoning is that whoever saw the spot reported the findings back to Mr. Cox, who immediately associated the description with a hospital emergency...
 
diphi said:
OK5, what color is the carpet?
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From what I can remember, the carpet was like a beige color.

Dr.Fessel said:
OK, did Josh attend church yesterday?
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Josh did not attend church.

Dr.Fessel said:
Anyone know if there was a coffee table in the area where the carpet was removed by the police? It was reported the police took furniture out of the house.
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They did not have a coffee table in the front/living room.

Dr.Fessel said:
Right, he might have been blocking her from getting to the van so she was just trying to get out the front door and run. Does anyone know if Josh had a gun?
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Josh did not own a gun as far as any of us know.
 
PercyVeer said:
ITA, want to know about furniture, i.e. sharp, heavy, in the area of the spot.
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We are working on an amended layout of the floor plan to include where the furniture was placed in the living room and dining/kitchen area.

Until then...here is a basic description of the front/living room as far as furniture goes:

Along the front wall (in front of the window) to the right of the front door, there was a long couch. Separating the living room from the front entryway was a love seat. So the couch and love seat formed an L shape with the bottom of the L being the long couch and the side of the L being the love seat.

On the wall that is shared with the garage was a huge entertainment center that Josh made. It was very heavy and needs several people to help lift it.

I do not believe there was any other furniture in there. No coffee table in the middle, no furniture separating the living room from the dining area, so just open on that side of the room.

Also, this is interesting, according to Josh - LE took his couch also...the one in front of the window. That makes me think that the wet spot could be closer to that couch, because they wanted to test it for something...
 
Susan was afraid Josh would take the boys. They fought and he had maybe promised this, in fact, so when things went sour he still had in mind he would be the one taking the boys. Because this was his backup plan, he thought it made sense to explain he had taken them as he did, not realizing it makes no sense.

If Josh isn't a violent man-- and if he were friends would know his tendencies, to throw things or yell or whatever-- but Susan wasn't most afraid of physical danger or she would have left. Somehow family held out sincere hope she was alive for a long time, that to me it shows they maybe didn't think she died in the house.

They could have been out in the woods still discussing their problems, and he tied her to a tree or something like that, and he'd say, "she's out there somewhere" like that makes sense, too. Yes. Frozen.

The rental car could have been his way to go finish his deed, but if this is even remotely close, I still think he drove a long distance with her.
 
nomad said:
My reasoning is that whoever saw the spot reported the findings back to Mr. Cox, who immediately associated the description with a hospital emergency...
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I can understand that. But think about it this way. You get a call saying your daughter and her whole family is missing. It probably shocks the crap out of you, and you're on pins an needles, waiting for news. Finally, you get a call from the police, who say no one is in the house, but that there are two fans in the living room, blowing the carpet dry. I'm thinking your brain just automatically connects the two bits of information - whether or not they're actually connected.

The spot may well turn out to help incriminate him. But it doesn't appear to be the smoking gun a lot of us had hoped it would be. I look at it this way. If the spot has Susan's DNA in it - well, it's her house. Her DNA would be all over the house. But if (when?) they eventually find her, then the wet spot is something that he's have to explain, in context.
 
same post. Server problem. Sorry, I deleted this- just a redundant post. :p
 
Okay, here is the more detailed floor plan:

detailedfloorplan.jpg
 
Wow, OK5...that floor plan is such a great contribution to the discussion. Thank you (and Kiirsi, too, for assisting you)!

To others:
Remember Josh's previous tantrum about having to spend hours cleaning the floor because his neighbors walked on it with bare feet? I suspect he'd have paused (before moving on to another...um...activity) to clean up ANY wet spot or mess, without regard to whether it could later be construed as evidence. Given his apparent OCD tendencies, I doubt he could tolerate a wet spot or stain in the carpet for any length of time.
 
Mesmerized said:
Wow, OK5...that floor plan is such a great contribution to the discussion. Thank you (and Kiirsi, too, for assisting you)!

To others:
Remember Josh's previous tantrum about having to spend hours cleaning the floor because his neighbors walked on it with bare feet? I suspect he'd have paused (before moving on to another...um...activity) to clean up ANY wet spot or mess, without regard to whether it could later be construed as evidence. Given his apparent OCD tendencies, I doubt he could tolerate a wet spot or stain in the carpet for any length of time.
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I thought about that, too. Or maybe he hurried to clean up so the kids wouldn't see. Question is...how good of a cleaning job did he do?
 
OK5 said:
Also, this is interesting, according to Josh - LE took his couch also...the one in front of the window. That makes me think that the wet spot could be closer to that couch, because they wanted to test it for something...
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This reminds me a little of an experience I had a few years ago. A close family member died of an accidental Methadone overdose. He had taken it, then gone to lay down in his living room to watch TV. When his wife found him, he was covered in his own vomit. Afterward, she had to have the couch and carpet cleaned. I think that's pretty common, in such cases.

I wonder if they were thinking she might have been laying on the couch, and they wanted to test the couch to see if it had residue similar to that found on the carpet.

I've always kind of thought he poisoned her somehow. That would fit.
 
OK5 -
When Josh talks/talked about things like that LE took his couch, what is his manner like? Factual (no emotion)? Irritated/agitated? Confused?
 
Well, clearly there is some correlation between the couch and the carpet underneath it. I wonder if the couch was wet, too.
 
Poisoning is high on my list of scenarios, too, Dom. Clearly, their public demeanor wasn't consistent with what was going on between them that day. Two strong wills, too. Not just Josh's, at play, it seems to me.
 
I don't think they took that much carpet just because of a water spot. I think the spot looked like blood and they took the rest of the carpet to run test on how much blood loss would it take to make that spot with the same carpet and pad and shampooer. If it took enough blood that someone would most likely be dead from.
 
I don't think it was just water, either. Bodily fluids, cleaning agents, etc. to be sure.

They may also have removed such a large portion of carpet to test the floor underneath for remaining evidence that soaked through.
 
Next question:
If it happened near the couch...Would the perp move the body through house/dining area to the inside garage door and down those steps? Or would he risk going out the front door (perhaps thinking nobody was watching, if it was the middle of the night) because it was closer and easier?

They took swabs of evidence from the front steps, I thought...
 
Mesmerized said:
Next question:
If it happened near the couch...Would the perp move the body through house/dining area to the inside garage door and down those steps? Or would he risk going out the front door (perhaps thinking nobody was watching, if it was the middle of the night) because it was closer and easier?

They took swabs of evidence from the front steps, I thought...
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You wouldn't think he would go out the front door with her since the car alarm already drew attention. Did she get partway out of the house bleeding? Did he track blood out the front door for some reason? Did he maybe go outside to dump the carpet cleaner dirty water container?
 
Mesmerized said:
OK5 -
When Josh talks/talked about things like that LE took his couch, what is his manner like? Factual (no emotion)? Irritated/agitated? Confused?
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From what I remember his attitude is like...it is like he is resigned and irritated. Like he has no control over it so he has a defeatist attitude but also I can sense the irritation and frustration over the fact that they took so many of his personal things. He didn't really show much emotion other than those I just mentioned.
 
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