Trial Thread 4/12/2012

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I believe it has been said by various witnesses this far there were blankets in the back seat, I wonder if these blankets were ever found, or have ever been tested for DNA. MTR could have had a blanket laid out over the back seat during the rape and therefore not leaving much DNA evidence on the actual seat. Just a thought, nothing to back that up.

That's a good point.

I am surprised that neither of the witnesses said anything about any blood on the seat. They also didn't say there were "chunks" cut out of it.......just that is was "ripped". There was foam also in the garbage, which could have been from the seats, or if he was installing speakers could have come from the packaging of the speakers......JMO

I
 
so the seat was removed the end of March and then thrown out with the general pickup in the area mid April...scratch another from TLM statement about cutting out parts of a back seat and thus the reason TS had to sit on the floor...wonder when we will find out the "car wash" was a figment of her imagination...I still believe he was there at the scene but his role is what I am having difficulty in trying to figure out... I also don't think he was "dating" TLM..more likely using her to obtain drugs... as they say..."hell has no fury"...:moo:

I'm not understanding what you mean in the bolded part. I didn't follow all of her testimony, but think she said she cut the seat after Tori was murdered due to a stain.
 
I think what she's asking, and I'm wondering as well, is where did the sperm come from originally, if not from semen?

Is it possible that that was an error on the part of the journalist/tweeter?

I guess none of us here are specialists at this stuff, but where else would sperm come from? I'm going to look on google some more..........
 
I'm not understanding what you mean in the bolded part. I didn't follow all of her testimony, but think she said she cut the seat after Tori was murdered due to a stain.


sorry didn't post that correctly..brain thinking but fingers not staying in sync..what I meant was TLM said she cut pieces out of a seat that from what we heard today did not exist at the time of the murder..so scratch that from her statement of truth.. she also mentioned that little TS had to sit on the floor in the back so that would seem to have some truth to it IF the seat had been removed March 29 as the witness said today...
 
so the seat was removed the end of March and then thrown out with the general pickup in the area mid April...scratch another from TLM statement about cutting out parts of a back seat and thus the reason TS had to sit on the floor...wonder when we will find out the "car wash" was a figment of her imagination...I still believe he was there at the scene but his role is what I am having difficulty in trying to figure out... I also don't think he was "dating" TLM..more likely using her to obtain drugs... as they say..."hell has no fury"...:moo:


London Free Press‏@RaffertyLFPReply
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Pushie described it as the seat portion of a back seat He said the clean up happened about a week after Easter in 2009
1:47 PM - 12 Apr 12via web · DetailsReply
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Pushie said he never spoke to Rafferty. He told police in Spring 2009 that he saw the car seat in front of Rafferty's home covered by couch

QUACK QUACK
 
Mike Knoll: Hank Daniszewski's noon trial update:

Two neighbors of Michael Rafferty said they saw a car seat in a garbage pile front of his home.

Michael Griswold and David Pushie said, both residents of Tennyson Street, said they saw the car seat, covered by a couch during a spring clean up week in Woodstock on April 2009 about a week after Victoria Stafford disappeared.

Police officials testified the bottom portion of Rafferty's rear car seat was missing when it was seized in May and was never located.

Griswold said the car seat appeared to be ripped with a sharp object.

Terri-Lynne McClintic testified Rafferty told her to cut out part of the seat because it could not be cleaned.

Defense lawyer suggested to Griswold that he saw Rafferty remove the seat earlier to install speakers but Griswold said he did not recall that.

Griswold said the rear seat was in the car when he helped Rafferty move his car from Guelph a year earlier to move in with his mother on Tennyson Street.

The court also heard from a woman who briefly dated Rafferty at about the same time. She said his car seemed very dirty and littered and the rear seat appeared to be covered with a blanket.

She said Rafferty appeared "nervous" and "needy" and she moved to break off the relationship quickly.
 
so the seat was removed the end of March and then thrown out with the general pickup in the area mid April...scratch another from TLM statement about cutting out parts of a back seat and thus the reason TS had to sit on the floor...wonder when we will find out the "car wash" was a figment of her imagination...I still believe he was there at the scene but his role is what I am having difficulty in trying to figure out... I also don't think he was "dating" TLM..more likely using her to obtain drugs... as they say..."hell has no fury"...:moo:

huh? I think that Tory was on the floor because they wanted her out of site.
 



London Free Press‏@RaffertyLFPReply
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Pushie described it as the seat portion of a back seat He said the clean up happened about a week after Easter in 2009
1:47 PM - 12 Apr 12via web · DetailsReply
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understand that BUT if you will read back further the witness ALSO said that MR removed the seat March 29th and it was put out for cleanup the week after Easter.....:what:
 
Is it possible that that was an error on the part of the journalist/tweeter?

I guess none of us here are specialists at this stuff, but where else would sperm come from? I'm going to look on google some more..........

I think you're probably right, an error. Couldn't find another source for sperm on my search.
 
@AM980_Court
  • Griswold says he noticed Rafferty remove the seat and put it in his shed March 29th, 09. He is read his synopsis, now remembers.
@AM980_Court

  • Derstine asks if chunks were cut out of the seat. Griswold says no. Just one cut. No more questions.


does not the above stated by the witness that MR removed the seat March 29th....please someone correct me if I am reading this incorrectly....thus the reason I said there was no back seat at the time of the murder....:banghead::banghead::banghead:
 
sorry didn't post that correctly..brain thinking but fingers not staying in sync..what I meant was TLM said she cut pieces out of a seat that from what we heard today did not exist at the time of the murder..so scratch that from her statement of truth.. she also mentioned that little TS had to sit on the floor in the back so that would seem to have some truth to it IF the seat had been removed March 29 as the witness said today...

Or it's quite possible the first witness has his dates mixed up. Or the seat was returned to the car for a time (and different reason) and removed again.
 
Mike Knoll: Hank Daniszewski's noon trial update:

Two neighbors of Michael Rafferty said they saw a car seat in a garbage pile front of his home.

Michael Griswold and David Pushie said, both residents of Tennyson Street, said they saw the car seat, covered by a couch during a spring clean up week in Woodstock on April 2009 about a week after Victoria Stafford disappeared.

Police officials testified the bottom portion of Rafferty's rear car seat was missing when it was seized in May and was never located.

Griswold said the car seat appeared to be ripped with a sharp object.

Terri-Lynne McClintic testified Rafferty told her to cut out part of the seat because it could not be cleaned.

Defense lawyer suggested to Griswold that he saw Rafferty remove the seat earlier to install speakers but Griswold said he did not recall that.

Griswold said the rear seat was in the car when he helped Rafferty move his car from Guelph a year earlier to move in with his mother on Tennyson Street.

The court also heard from a woman who briefly dated Rafferty at about the same time. She said his car seemed very dirty and littered and the rear seat appeared to be covered with a blanket.

She said Rafferty appeared "nervous" and "needy" and she moved to break off the relationship quickly.


Perhaps the ripped seat that Griswold saw is the one that was in the car at the time Tori was taken and because of the rip in the seat "fluids" leaked inside and that is perhaps what TLM was told to cut out. The seat seen by DP was likely the same seat but with more "damage". And perhaps the reason it was seen covered by a blanket previously by girlfriends, etc. is because he was attempting to hide the original rip. MOO
 
so the seat was removed the end of March and then thrown out with the general pickup in the area mid April...scratch another from TLM statement about cutting out parts of a back seat and thus the reason TS had to sit on the floor...wonder when we will find out the "car wash" was a figment of her imagination...I still believe he was there at the scene but his role is what I am having difficulty in trying to figure out... I also don't think he was "dating" TLM..more likely using her to obtain drugs... as they say..."hell has no fury"...:moo:

Where is the proof that the seat was removed in March? :waitasec:

Because Derstine said so?

If he wasn't "dating" TLM, why is her DNA mixed with his sperm on his front passenger car seat? Why did he have pictures of her in a motel room wearing his t-shirt on his SD card? Why is there video of them attending a movie?

MOO
 
Or it's quite possible the first witness has his dates mixed up. Or the seat was returned to the car for a time (and different reason) and removed again.


yes that is possible but you know we could go back and forth on this till the cows come home...I am only going by what the witness said under oath and I am sure the jury will also.... I think we will have to agree to disagree on this and other points...respectfully.....JMO
 
Question: I general, which human tissues and fluids contain sperm fractions?

I found this: If you're asking if we can get a DNA profile from semen that contains no sperm, then the answer is no. Sperm is the only component of semen that contains DNA. I guess it is possible that someone might shed a few skin cells into the semen, but it would be pretty unlikely.
Here: [ame="http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=441749"]Sperm fraction? - Straight Dope Message Board[/ame]


I'm not finding much else, but I'm still looking.

Salem
 
Or it's quite possible the first witness has his dates mixed up. Or the seat was returned to the car for a time (and different reason) and removed again.

I hope this is something that the Crown points out.
 
understand that BUT if you will read back further the witness ALSO said that MR removed the seat March 29th and it was put out for cleanup the week after Easter.....:what:

Derstine asks Griswold if he saw Rafferty put the car seat in the shed - [/COLOR]Griswold says no,
Derstine asks Griswold if he saw Rafferty remove the car seat late in March to install speakers

Griswold said he saw a ripped car seat in the garbage pile in front of Rafferty's house There was a love seat on top


Griswold said the spring cleanup was around April 15 ,2009 He said he looked at the garbage pile in front of Rafferty's house
:moo:


It sounds like Derstine has suggested it was end March.

This is the direct quote from LFPress tweet, can't speak of any other tweets.

Tweet prior to that
London Free Press‏@RaffertyLFPReply
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Griswold is reviewing a prior statement he made to police in May 2009 to refresh his memory
London Free Press‏@RaffertyLFP



Griswold recalls a spring cleanup week He said there was garbage in front of Rafferty's house

1:28 PM - 12 Apr 12via web ·
 
RBBM: What the heck doess it mean then? If it doesn't come from sperm, why do they call it "sperm fraction" and where else could it come from? That makes no sense????

Salem

No it doesn't make sense at all. I sure hope the jurors are given science lessons about sperm and semen. My head is hurting trying to figure that one out. :banghead: Crazy!
 
yes that is possible but you know we could go back and forth on this till the cows come home...I am only going by what the witness said under oath and I am sure the jury will also.... I think we will have to agree to disagree on this and other points...respectfully.....JMO

I think it was a tweeting error, desrstine suggested that he took the back seat out in march to add speakers, the witness did not say he did, i'll try or someone try to find the info of his testimony exactly
 
Mike Knoll: Hank Daniszewski's noon trial update:

Two neighbors of Michael Rafferty said they saw a car seat in a garbage pile front of his home.

Michael Griswold and David Pushie said, both residents of Tennyson Street, said they saw the car seat, covered by a couch during a spring clean up week in Woodstock on April 2009 about a week after Victoria Stafford disappeared.

Police officials testified the bottom portion of Rafferty's rear car seat was missing when it was seized in May and was never located.

Griswold said the car seat appeared to be ripped with a sharp object.

Terri-Lynne McClintic testified Rafferty told her to cut out part of the seat because it could not be cleaned.

Defense lawyer suggested to Griswold that he saw Rafferty remove the seat earlier to install speakers but Griswold said he did not recall that.
Griswold said the rear seat was in the car when he helped Rafferty move his car from Guelph a year earlier to move in with his mother on Tennyson Street.

The court also heard from a woman who briefly dated Rafferty at about the same time. She said his car seemed very dirty and littered and the rear seat appeared to be covered with a blanket.

She said Rafferty appeared "nervous" and "needy" and she moved to break off the relationship quickly.

Here Macright
 
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