17 yo Trayvon Martin Shot to Death by Neighborhood Watch Captain #10

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iluvmua said:
I find it funny how out of all the lawyers in central florida this family could have, they just so happen to take one who is involved with civil rights.

I'm thinking this is all one big hoax, like the duke lacrosse scandal.
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Is Trayvon's death a hoax too? Just trying to understand your point...???
:waitasec:
 
Etilema said:
Although I disagree with those who don't see a concern about racism in this case, I think I do understand what is meant by this being a hoax (although "hoax" probably isn't the best word). They don't mean it was a trap or that the death of the boy is fake or deliberate on the part of the family or civil rights people.

I think they mean that perhaps the family knows that Trayvon was involved in criminal activity, could even have been looking for something to steal on his way home, and most definitely would have started up with GZ because he didn't like GZ watching him. That the family suspects Trayvon totally would start pounding some guy if he thought the guy was out to get him, so they know that GZ's story is probably quite true, that he was just trying to keep an eye on a suspicious person and that guy turned around and started whoopin him and he was in fear for his life, because Trayvon was a young, strong, fit guy, whereas GZ is older and out of shape. But knowing all this, they are instead portraying Trayvon as some kind of sweet little angel who would never hurt a fly and portraying GZ as a racist maniac. The typical civil rights media *advertiser censored* are out there blowing the story into a distortion in order to whip the public into a frenzy, when they know good and well that it's probably just what the police saw when they arrived--a clear-cut case of self-defense.

Again, what I wrote above is my understanding of what someone could mean by calling this situation a hoax. I am not in any way saying I agree with it or any part of it.
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I know a lot of people understand your explanation, and I thank you for putting it out there.

I personally still do not understand, though. To think this way you would have to be operating under the assumption that the Martin family is dishonest and grasping. Why would this be the knee-jerk assessment of a family who has just suffered a grievous loss? Why believe that their uppermost priority would be to perpetrate a hoax at this terrible time?

I'd sure they'd rather not have to have an attorney at all. I'm sure they'd rather not have to defend their dead son's integrity and honor at all. Even if you disagree with how this has been handled (and I do not, I'd have done exactly the same every which way around, likely with far less class and dignity) - can they not be granted some measure of compassion, given they're mourning a son?
 
Wise Old Owl said:
Morning :seeya:

Here's a thought:


GZ and TM got into a scuffle. In the commotion of the scuffle, the gun was unholstered and fought over. The gun, then went off with the bullet hitting and killing TM.

When LE got there - GZ told them "I shot him".

OK

IF you were in a fight with an unknown assailant and both of you had a hand on that gun and that gun ending up being fired - then WHY wouldn't you tell LE -

"I don't know, we were fighting over the gun and it went off" OR

"The gun just went off - we both had on hands on it" OR

"I don't know - it all happened so fast - the trigger got pulled" OR

Something to that effect? Why would you simply say "I shot him"?

If you were fighting and knew this was a self defense shooting - why wouldn't your first words include something about TM's hands being on the gun as well? Or at least something about struggling over the gun? Why would you simply conceed to "I shot him and the gun is in holstered in my waistband"?

Plus, GZ re-holstering the gun. He had the presence of mind to re-holster it. IF it was such a chaotic, unnerving event - wouldn't the gun just have been dropped? Since TM was face down and not moving - the chances of that gun being grabbed up and used again was slim to none. There was nobody else around, so the chances of someone else grabbing it was slim to none.

I imagine that if you are in a struggle over a gun and that gun fires - it would be a very confusing, upsetting, and very distressing moment - yet, GZ had the presence of mind to re-holster the gun? Plus, if both GZ's hand and TM's hand had been on that gun - there is evidence of that on the gun - DROP IT and preserve that evidence.

I'm not sure about the "shock" that GZ supposedly felt if he had the presence of mind to re-holster that gun instead of just dropping it. And then he confession of "I shot him" instead of saying at least something about "we fought over it" or "he tried to grab it from me" - SOMETHING that would let LE know (who have YOU at gunpoint at the moment BTW) that you didn't mean it - that it was an accident - that it could have been TM's finger on that trigger?

Do ya get what I'm trying to say here?

Why would GZ just openly offer up "I shot him" as his first words to LE? Why admit to a crime when you really believe that you aren't guilty of? Sure, GZ is the one the gun belonged to - but if it was self-defense and TM was trying to get the gun - then why not make some type of statement about that - first words outta your mouth.

I know if I had been GZ and there was a fight/struggle over the gun and it was fired and TM took the bullet - first thing I would have said was 'I don't know - it just went off. He tried to grab it from me" - something like that. But Icertainly wouldn't take complete and total blame right from the get-go. And then, weeks later - turn around and say it was self-defense.

JMHO
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BECAUSE GZ knew he had shot TM - the facts of the scuffle are separate,
and noted. He still shot him, so he said the truth, I shot him.
Maybe TM never touched his gun in the first place, was GZ afraid that TM was a strong athletic taller than him guy? Who may be able to get his gun away from him? Maybe.. lot of maybe’s here. :moo:
 
I think Tray made more of an effort to get away from GZ than just moving to the sidewalk in between houses.

The route marked in red shows the path Tray might have taken to get straight home. I marked a path in blue that I think he used. I think he cut between houses went back out onto the street and then made his way back to the sidewalk where he was shot.

This route might also help to explain the 2 or 3 minutes some posters have been saying Tray might have used to hide from GZ.

Link to the original map:

http://transferstation.files.wordpress.com/2012/03/street-view-overhead1.jpg



My opinion only.
 

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marlame said:
Is Trayvon's death a hoax too? Just trying to understand your point...???
:waitasec:
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My point is, I don't think the entire "Innocent kid wearing a hoodie who is black, walking home from store with skittles and iced tea shot by racist vigilante is the entire story like the family/media would want us to believe.
 
Beyond Belief said:
I find it puzzling that GZ was even able to catch up with TM on foot.
We talking about healthy 17 year old football player.
If your being followed and scared, do you run like the wind to safety or do you confront the person following you?
Thats whats puzzling me. I hope the conversation with Trayvon's girlfriend can shed some light on it.
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TM may not have wanted to incite suspicion by running. He probably knew that would give his pursuer even more reason to come after him.
 
ggg said:
Why not show the 6’+ tall 160# muscled football player, with the tattoos and gold grills on his teeth, who’d been suspended from school three times this school year—a new school that he was attending this year, his having been kicked out of Miramar HS the previous year for drugs? How does a 17 year old high school boy afford colorful tattoos and gold teeth anyway? Selling jewelry like that that was seized from him when he got suspended from school for vandalism caught on surveillance camera?
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<snipped> and BBM

Re the BBM. Need a links for both allegations or retractions please.
 
suzihawk said:
A more interesting question, IMO, is why did the family feel they needed a civil rights attorney? Hmmm...
Click to expand...

Because being a black family in America, even a completley blemish free one, knows what its like to feel the indifference a lot of people give them based on nothing but bias. This why did he get a lawyer is a moot point right now to me. I mean its obvious they need one. There was a huge miscarriage of justice there. and that's coming from a near 30 year old white woman who's husband is black. I completely understand the need.

Sent from my ADR6300 using Tapatalk
 
NWP is often sponsored by, affiliated with etc a HOA such as it was here. For many millions of dollars of good reasons there is no way a sane HOA wants armed people acting as NWP for just the reasons that will soon be apparent here in terms of civil liability. If "Second Amendment Rights" are the most important thing to someone then you need to stay away from organizations whose rules you will not follow because of your need to carry a weapon that could jeopardize the lives and livelihoods of everyone in your neighborhood. All NWP programs have similar rules that local LE will insist upon too for safety and liability reasons.

In this case you killed a lawful visitor and set your community up for civil liability. And, Zimmerman wasn't even an owner and seemingly has few assets so his neighborhood will likely bear the brunt of his poor judgment and need to carry a weapon. There will likely be an argument made by the HOA that Zimmerman was not acting as NWP as he acted outside the scope of his "authority" and failed to follow the rules but the other side will argue that his behavior and weapon carrying were likely well known and no one made any attempt to stop him so they are also responsible. The HOA may actually escape liability if they can successfully argue they were essentially coerced and too darn scared of Zimmerman and his gun to try and stop him from doing anything. Should be interesting anyway, in a legal sense.

m00c0w said:
But that's exactly what people are implying here. Because Zimmerman was part of NWP, he should not have had his gun on him. That's what all of the "rules" say, too. If NWP is just watching and observing as an ordinary citizen, does that mean you're relinquishing your 2A rights if you join/affiliate yourself with such a program?
Click to expand...
 
He described how, on March 16, he invited Martin's family and lawyers to his office at City Hall to listen to the 911 calls prior to the public release. Natalie Jackson, an Orlando civil rights lawyer, was also present.
Martin's mother weeps
Triplett played the calls on his office computer. Someone was heard crying for help. Martin's mother wept and ran from the room, convinced it was her son, Jackson said. Everyone was moved to tears.
"It was very emotional," Triplett recalled. "Obviously when you hear something like that, there couldn't be anything worse for a family member or a parent ... and to hear your own son, what transpired at the last second."

http://usnews.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2...yor-says-police-resisted-release-of-911-tapes
 
tehcloser said:
Trayvon Martin case: Mayor says police resisted release of 911 tapes

SANFORD, Florida -- The mayor of the city where Trayvon Martin was killed says he overruled police and prosecutors who opposed the release of tapes of 911 calls, telling them: “We're not here to hide anything.”

http://usnews.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2...yor-says-police-resisted-release-of-911-tapes
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Was it the mayor who ordered release of the video showing GZ being brought into the police station?
 
pinkflamingo said:
It's no rumor that he was suspended out of school suspension 3 times this year. This was no "nice" kid. GZ was not a "nice guy" either.
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It is not a rumor; it is a fact that he had been suspended 3 times.
But a lot of people are not nice; they still do not get shot.
Something did happen; we just need to know exactly what did happen.
TM's attorney walking around saying murder in cold blood is disgusting.
the LE not investigating a boy’s death is disgusting too.
I do not think that any time there is a death and one cant tell their side of what happened IT MUST BE INVESTIGATED.
 
If the Martin family had not enlisted the help of a civil rights attorney, do you think we would be discussing this case now?
The local PD poo-pooed it all away....remember?
 
iluvmua said:
No, not the fact that he's dead but the whole 'innocent 17 year old kid shot for no reason other than wearing a hoodie, being black, and walking back home from a store carrying nothing more than skittles and iced tea'

That we've been hearing about for the last month.

It cannnot be THAT cut and dry.
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It certainly can be that cut and dried. Shootings for no reason happen every single day, unfortunately.

There was a severe mistake in judgment by the SPD and higher ups - due to total ineptitude or corruption (my personal belief) - that it would be looked upon as just another run of the mill everyday shooting of a black kid up to no good and quickly forgotten.

Oops!

This is my opinion.
 
So glad the mayor stepped up and did the right thing. But apparently the police department DID have something to hide.

I didn't realize that LE can prevent release of 911 tapes. How scary is that?
 
Boytwnmom said:
NWP is often sponsored by, affiliated with etc a HOA such as it was here. For many millions of dollars of good reasons there is no way a sane HOA wants armed people acting as NWP for just the reasons that will soon be apparent here in terms of civil liability. If "Second Amendment Rights" are the most important thing to someone then you need to stay away from organizations whose rules you will not follow because of your need to carry a weapon that could jeopardize the lives and livelihoods of everyone in your neighborhood. All NWP programs have similar rules that local LE will insist upon too for safety and liability reasons.

In this case you killed a lawful visitor and set your community up for civil liability. And, Zimmerman wasn't even an owner and seemingly has few assets so his neighborhood will likely bear the brunt of his poor judgment and need to carry a weapon. There will likely be an argument made by the HOA that Zimmerman was not acting as NWP as he acted outside the scope of his "authority" and failed to follow the rules but the other side will argue that his behavior and weapon carrying were likely well known and no one made any attempt to stop him so they are also responsible. The HOA may actually escape liability if they can successfully argue they were essentially coerced and too darn scared of Zimmerman and his gun to try and stop him from doing anything. Should be interesting anyway, in a legal sense.
Click to expand...

Excellent Post!
 
songline said:
If you run like the wind for safety and you have long legs as he would because he was 6'3" he would have been almost home. :moo:
I am not so sure he was scared enough to run...he may have been thinking... OH good he can&#8217;t drive his car into this area I am clear of him now.
But then he saw him and we do not know what happened at that stage....
:moo:
Click to expand...

Yes, because in normal situations most people, especially young men in good shape, do not actually believe someone is going to physically assault them out of nowhere, especially in a way that they will not be able to defend themselves. If GZ had had the gun drawn, Trayvon likely would have run. If Trayvon had been female, he would have run. If Trayvon had been a little kid, he might have been afraid enough to run. In this situation, my speculation is that he would be on his guard, worried/nervous, but not really fearful yet. Again, all just my speculation.
 
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