New Poll: The Chandelier poll

Debate the chandelier here. A poll is included. Thank you for your vote and for all discussions.

The chandelier is an obstacle (one of many!) unfortunately not easy to explain.

I don't have any chandeliers in my home, only ceiling fans w/light fixtures or just light fixtures.
Is it possible for a chandelier to detach from the ceiling, if a young boy around 45-60 lbs. is using his full weight pulling and swinging from it?
How do you explain the chandelier?

It can and does happen that a chandelier will fall without any immediately apparent reason. That chandelier could very well have been there since the house was built in 1908. Beams rot, metal rusts, bolts loosen. It is possible that even a small bit of extra weight could cause a fixture to fall. There is also the possibility that the chandelier could have been swung on before by parties unknown- wild New Years Eve party, squatters, whoever. Although bizarre, such a fall is not totally unlikely. Max could have been playing in the foyer when the chandelier suddenly fell.

Warning, there is a musical group called the chandelier falls which will return a lot of results on google.

I have lived in two historic homes. One built in 1910, and the current one built in 1919. The chandelier over my dining room table would certainly not support that much weight, particularly under what was likely high velocity and force. It will swing around and swivel unsteadily under the simple condition of changing a bulb. Things like that are not necessarily up to code in an older house. We have installed ceiling fans in many of the rooms in our home, and in doing so, have mounted cross beams in the attic to support the weight. There weren't cross beams up there to support just the ceiling fixtures prior to that though.

You didn't leave the option that I would vote for: Someone brought down the chandelier after the accident.

In the film adaptation of the play Crimes of The Heart, Babe, portrayed by Sissy Spacek, attempts suicide several times. In one scene she is seen dragging a chandelier by a noose behind her, where it has clearly fallen from the ceiling, unable to support her weight.

I understand it was the chain that broke, allowing the chandelier to fall, not the support that held in in place. If this was the original chandelier I could see this happening.

I don't think it would take a lot of velocity or more than Max's weight if the chain was wek, rusted, or stressed.

CDS22 said:

You didn't leave the option that I would vote for: Someone brought down the chandelier after the accident.

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:floorlaugh:

So let's describe it..this 100lb woman goes and finds a ladder that would reach the chain of the chandelier in order to detach it.. This woman would have an extremely difficult, very likely not able to maneuver a ladder of this size from a storage area at some locale on this property.. Quite likely not anywhere in the near vicinity.. This 100lb woman would have to be able to get the ladder from however it is stored(many ladders this size are stored sideways hanging on a wall.. I can attest she would not have been able to retrieve the ladder if this were the case).. But let's say she didn't have to retrieve from a hanging position on a wall of a storage area.. The time it would have taken this poor woman to have been able to pick up and move a ladder of this size, if at all possible, would have been extremely Lengthy..

To be honest the truth of the matter is it's not plausible at all.. And isn't worth the time to attempt to describe such an implausible claim.. Therefor I will state that in my experience with ladders I find with Rebecca's size and height that this
Isn't physically possible!

Would love to see in detail it described how one believes this to have happened.. Welcome it and look forward to it!!..lol.. Hehehe!! Especially the part where Rebecca brings down the chandelier..

The IMO implausible and impossible claims being thrown out in Max's tragic accident do not for one second take away from the real focus here.. Rebecca's murder.. But I must admit it does give some humor relief to such a tragic case..

SmoothOperator said:

So let's describe it..this 100lb woman goes and finds a ladder that would reach the chain of the chandelier in order to detach it.. This woman would have an extremely difficult, very likely not able to maneuver a ladder of this size from a storage area at some locale on this property.. Quite likely not anywhere in the near vicinity.. This 100lb woman would have to be able to get the ladder from however it is stored(many ladders this size are stored sideways hanging on a wall.. I can attest she would not have been able to retrieve the ladder if this were the case).. But let's say she didn't have to retrieve from a hanging position on a wall of a storage area.. The time it would have taken this poor woman to have been able to pick up and move a ladder of this size, if at all possible, would have been extremely Lengthy..

To be honest the truth of the matter is it's not plausible at all.. And isn't worth the time to attempt to describe such an implausible claim.. Therefor I will state that in my experience with ladders I find with Rebecca's size and height that this
Isn't physically possible!

Would love to see in detail it described how one believes this to have happened.. Welcome it and look forward to it!!..lol.. Hehehe!! Especially the part where Rebecca brings down the chandelier..

The IMO implausible and impossible claims being thrown out in Max's tragic accident do not for one second take away from the real focus here.. Rebecca's murder.. But I must admit it does give some humor relief to such a tragic case..

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First of all, I haven't stated that RZ brought down the chandelier. Second of all, why do you consider it impossible for petite women to do anything?

You've got the scenario of a 6 year old, 45-lb boy bringing down a chandelier. Why is it then absurd for someone of a larger height and weight to bring it down?

SunnieRN said:

I understand it was the chain that broke, allowing the chandelier to fall, not the support that held in in place. If this was the original chandelier I could see this happening.

I don't think it would take a lot of velocity or more than Max's weight if the chain was wek, rusted, or stressed.

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After looking @ a close-up pic of the rusted, weathered balcony railing, it would not surprise me in the least that other fixtures (susceptible to the salty sea air & just downright aging) in this ocean-front historic mansion could have also been in need of repair and/or replacing.

And I also remember hearing that the chain broke.

In homes I've lived in with chandeliers, they're normally fastened strongly enough to handle the weight of the chandelier itself and not the weight of an individual hanging from it.

Ceiling fans are usually braced more strongly than chandeliers, (based on homes I've lived in) because they must be able to handle the motion of the motorized fan.

CDS22 said:

You didn't leave the option that I would vote for: Someone brought down the chandelier after the accident.

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How would someone do such a thing w/o LE finding evidence of tampering? If you check the search warrant related to MS death, LE retrieved the parts of the chandelier's wiring, etc. If there had been tampering, they would have seen evidence of such.

SmoothOperator said:

:floorlaugh:

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Thank you!!!! I have wanted to do that so bad soooooo many times...

Common sense just plain old common sense!!!

Betty P said:

How would someone do such a thing w/o LE finding evidence of tampering? If you check the search warrant related to MS death, LE retrieved the parts of the chandelier's wiring, etc. If there had been tampering, they would have seen evidence of such.

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The LE has said they don't know if it fell on MS or if he fell on it. They just know it came down.

FYI: to any who may need a reminder of Max's correct weight is nearly 60lbs, weighing in at 57lbs.. Quite a difference of this 40-45lb some have claimed..*

Step by step along with demo:
Max and Max alone brought down the chandelier during the course of his fall..
A) starting from the uppermost banister of the second floor, careening into and over the chandelier..*

B) Possibly even at one point in a reactive state grabbed onto the chandelier..it was his contact with the chandelier that first changed his direction and angle of which he was falling..(either with A or B or both *I believe that it was his 57lb body weight that detached the chandelier.)

C) Max colliding with the bottom most staircase banister.. We dont know his exact velocity nor exact angle of how he collided with this banister causing contusions as well as I *do believe that his colliding with the bottom banister it then once again changed the course and angle that his body was falling..

D) after colliding with the bannister i believe it likely that certain parts of his body scraped against the interior stuccoed wall immediately below the bottom staircase causing multiple abrasions.

E) IMO it was the contact made with the bottom banister(C) combined with certain parts of his body colliding and scraping along the stucco(D) it was the way in which those two combined..*

F) then propelled Max into the final angle and position combined with the velocity of having fallen such a great distance that when his body and head made contact with the first floor that it with a force that in a whip lash manner caused the severe injuries to his spinal column and brain stem.

I believe that it's likely that after Max collided with the chandelier and either the weight of his body careening onto and over the chandelier.. Or his reactive grasping onto the chandelier.. Is what detached the chandelier and sent Max on colliding into the bottom bannister while IMO the chandelier continued down crashing to the first floor with Max soon thereafter hitting the floor Adjacent to the chandelier..

Jmo, tho!!

I think it's certainly possible that the chandelier could have broken off its chain and crashed to the floor if Max had collided with it when he fell from the upper banister.

rosemary said:

I think it's certainly possible that the chandelier could have broken off its chain and crashed to the floor if Max had collided with it when he fell from the upper banister.

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That's what I'm thinking too. But because I really don't know how Maxie fell, or where he fell from exactly, I voted "I don't know". It's most apparent that he brought it down with him, or somehow managed to jar it loose and it fell. I just can't figure out which.

But I'm absolutely convinced it wasn't a nefarious act of another person taking the chandelier down after he fell (having it fall to the ground and break in pieces right next to Maxie). I can't find any grounds for that scenario.

MOO

Mel

CDS22 said:

You didn't leave the option that I would vote for: Someone brought down the chandelier after the accident.

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CDS22 said:

First of all, I haven't stated that RZ brought down the chandelier. Second of all, why do you consider it impossible for petite women to do anything?

You've got the scenario of a 6 year old, 45-lb boy bringing down a chandelier. Why is it then absurd for someone of a larger height and weight to bring it down?

Click to expand...

Please explain who it was that "brought down the chandelier after the accident" and how this person accomplished this task after MS's fall and before the paramedics arrived.

CDS22 said:

The LE has said they don't know if it fell on MS or if he fell on it. They just know it came down.

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Any alleged tampering would have to occur on the chain, the chandelier itself and/or apparatus used to rig the chandelier to the ceiling. According to the SW, those parts were available to LE, were retrieved and examined by LE to determine if tampering had occurred. They found no evidence of tampering, or they would have noted they had.