Shannan Gilbert Found, death declared an accident. What do you think?
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Peter Brendt
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Okay, two possibilities then:
a.) Someone removed the two bones while the body was still otherwise complete, means with flesh on it. This would be a mess and the neighboring bones would most likely show tool marks of some kind.
b.) What kind of wildlife is around there, which goes first for eyes and then for thin skinned areas? Gulls? Some rodents? Not sure, what else lives in the area, animal wise. In this case we have also to consider the bones may were carried away when she was already skeletal.
The idea, the body was moved would only make sense, if she was moved after she was already a mere skeleton. No idea how long that would have taken in that climate and that special spot.
Peter
a.) Someone removed the two bones while the body was still otherwise complete, means with flesh on it. This would be a mess and the neighboring bones would most likely show tool marks of some kind.
b.) What kind of wildlife is around there, which goes first for eyes and then for thin skinned areas? Gulls? Some rodents? Not sure, what else lives in the area, animal wise. In this case we have also to consider the bones may were carried away when she was already skeletal.
The idea, the body was moved would only make sense, if she was moved after she was already a mere skeleton. No idea how long that would have taken in that climate and that special spot.
Peter
MrsPC
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one of the articles today said her remains were "largely intact" - whatever that means....
I still think they're holding back a lot
MrsPC
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actually, if her body was moved after she decomposed already, we'd have to consider the climate/situation where the remains were "stored"....not necessarily the climate/situation where her remains were found.
Peter Brendt
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True, and we know it wasn't a freezer. If she was stored at all. To move a skeletalized body and makes it later look like "largely intact" would call for a very good forensic anthropologist, that would be even above the skills of a physician. The trick would be, to bring also the remains of cartilage in place without twisting or damaging it. So if she was murdered, it was probably by Dr. Temperance Brennan aka Bones.
Peter
MrsPC
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what if she were wrapped when stored and still wrapped when dumped?
But if she was wrapped when found her they would know there was foul play involved. And if would be hard to unwrap her and keep the skeleton intact.
Peter Brendt
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Anything less stiff than a wooden box with a lot of foam packing material in it wouldn't do the trick. A simple wrap can move. Imagine you wrap a body. Some months later, you try to pick up the whole bundle. But in the meantime, the flesh is gone, so the body has lost volume. Next thing, that happens is, you grab it in the middle and the bones start to roll out on both ends. Or you grab it on both ends, then it bends and all the bones roll to the middle. No way, you will ever get that mess together without leaving a trace.
Admittedly, the whole reason for me, to think twice about this is, that I'm a little surprised only two bones are missing.
Peter
Peter Brendt
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Normally, dead bodies don't wrap themselves. So under normal circumstances, this would be such a clear giveaway ... but then, we're talking Suffolk PD here. Remember when they thought they had no SK ... and then when they thought, they had only one ... Those were cases of clear giveaways too.
Peter
I don't think they ever really thought they didn't have a SK. They may not have said it publicly at first but I'm sure they knew from the get-go that there was a SK.
Peter Brendt
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Makes one think, why they didn't act accordingly if they knew? The whole thing with detectives from AC coming to LI could have been done in an hour on the phone. And the mess up between GB and Manorville was unnecessary. I wonder, whether they have kept at least the traffic camera tapes from 2010.
Peter
Peter Brendt
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Makes one think, why they didn't act accordingly if they knew? The whole thing with detectives from AC coming to LI could have been done in an hour on the phone. And the mess up between GB and Manorville was unnecessary. I wonder, whether they have kept at least the traffic camera tapes from 2010.
Peter
Theforeigner
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Indeed
I´m so sad for her family that they didn´t get any answers.
I sure hope they get a second opinion, like the family did in the Rebecca Zahau case.
Hope SG's family could get Dr Baden or Dr Cyril Wecht to take a look at the case , I remeber one of them back in Decemebr 2011 talked about how it was possible to find out wheter Shannan drowned or not even though her remains was skeletonized. I actually posted it here on WS.
I´ll see if I can find it tomorrow.
Here it is, it is post #24. and it was Dr Baden who talked about Shannan's case :
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?p=7440710&highlight=baden#post7440710
Yes they CAN find out wheter she drowned or not even if it is only skeleton remains, read Dr. Badens explanation on this + more in this link:
http://www.newsday.com/news/breaking...eath-1.3388774
Here is a quote concerning drowning:
The examination of skeletal human remains found Tuesday near Oak Beach, besides determining whether they belong to a missing Jersey City woman, can also point to the cause of death, an expert said.
Key forensic clues can survive in bones and teeth even over the 19 months the remains -- if they are Shannan Gilbert's -- would have been exposed to the elements, said Michael Baden, a former New York City medical examiner.
Police theorize Gilbert drowned in a wetland thicket. Baden said water contains diatoms, a type of phytoplankton that if inhaled, can later be detected in bone marrow.
"If they are present and they match what's found in the water, that will indicate she was alive and breathing when she went into the water," he said.
hawkshaw
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The Suffolk County M.E. has stated the death of SG is 'undetermined', as per a report in Newsday - 5/2/12. So much for SG drowning. I wonder when they are going to figure out how her clothes came off while running thru the bramble........
truthspider
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We simply aren't being told the truth. Why would they only test for cocaine? If that is true, it sounds like they are only interested in finding a way to dismiss their liability. When one of your suspects is an ER doctor, you need to check for more than cocaine.
I'm not saying MG should fire bomb the police station, I am just saying I would completely understand if she did. I don't care if it raises my taxes directly, I think she should sue the SCPD until their eyes bleed, and I usually detest the idea of suing anybody for anything. It's time to occupy the precinct parking lot. These slobs are being paid 100k+ a year to eat McGriddles all day and solve sudoku puzzles, now I know why they have the highest rate of self inflicted gun shots to the head.
I haven't seen police work this handy since Harvey Keitel masturbated in front of that girl in the movie Bad Lieutenant.
I'm not saying MG should fire bomb the police station, I am just saying I would completely understand if she did. I don't care if it raises my taxes directly, I think she should sue the SCPD until their eyes bleed, and I usually detest the idea of suing anybody for anything. It's time to occupy the precinct parking lot. These slobs are being paid 100k+ a year to eat McGriddles all day and solve sudoku puzzles, now I know why they have the highest rate of self inflicted gun shots to the head.
I haven't seen police work this handy since Harvey Keitel masturbated in front of that girl in the movie Bad Lieutenant.
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hawkshaw
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The TRUTH is we may not be getting the truth. IMHO, the possibliltiy there are those subject to be embarrassment increases every day. Need I mention any more than the recent Secret Service scandal.
The then-police commissioner opined SG may have drowned. Some how her clothes came off??? I forget if he said it was more than one killer? What I do remember is it differed from what the DA said. What I also know is that district attorneys don't jump in and give press releases at those stages of an investigation. They are hiding something.........I can feel it in my bones.
BTW, love those folks that call for the FBI. You really don't have a clue?
The then-police commissioner opined SG may have drowned. Some how her clothes came off??? I forget if he said it was more than one killer? What I do remember is it differed from what the DA said. What I also know is that district attorneys don't jump in and give press releases at those stages of an investigation. They are hiding something.........I can feel it in my bones.
BTW, love those folks that call for the FBI. You really don't have a clue?
PickleChris
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You have a link that states the remains were only tested for cocaine? First I heard of that. I'm off to get some McGriddles before breakfast ends or I might have to pull........
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To Kill a Mockingbird
Karma Will Get LISK!!!
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hello The Foreigner.
i have cut and will paste here...what you said on another thread
about JB....and date coincidences....
Look at thise dates, pretty amazing if you ask me...cant wait to see if an announcement will be made tomorrow May 1st!?
May 1st 2010 Shannan Gilberts disappear
Dec 13, 2010 3 of the Gilgo Beach murder victim was found
Dec 13, 2011 Shannan Gilbert's body was found
Dec 14, 2011 JB commited suicide
May 1st, 2012 Possible official announcement that JB is the LISK
Could this all be a coincident?
Sure it could, but maybe not?!
you left out
May 1st, 2012 - Shannan Gilbert's family met Medical Examiner in Hauppauge, NY.
ok....just wanted to add that....
TKM
Peter Brendt
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The point, I didn't get is, how he distinguishes from diatoma, she got in her lung and which later during the decomposition decomposed with the lung and diatoma sitting in the little puddles around the place, the remains were found and which reached the remains at least in Spring 2011 when the area was a little swampier due to rainfalls. Since in both cases the same body of water plays the main role, how to distinguish that?
Peter
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