GUILTY KS - Karen Kahler, 44, two daughters & grandma murdered, Burlingame, 28 Nov 2009

Neighbor said:

I know Karen and her family personally. What did the dad do to their home computers for him to see all incoming and outgoing email? He was even sending emails from her account to her friends to slander her. Can someone do this by changing computer settings alone and without adding a computer program? Karen had a computer tech guy check her computer twice and never found any foreign software.

Click to expand...

I am so very, very sorry for your loss...yes, there are many different ways to accomplish something like this. Really it is military level hacking essentially-if her husband had access to people in the military or with contractors that worked in IT, he could get the programs that would make this possible. It may have been a tapped phone line or tapped network that ultimately let him in-lay people would never in a million years imagine something like this could happen, but when it does it is such a nightmare...I can imagine how Karen felt-thinking she was crazy and then knowing that she was never going to be out of his reach. I have a friend who has been through this.

Believe09 and Texas Mist--I am not a techie but have a question. Is this type of cyber-stalking or surveillance what you suspected in the Jared Mohler search warrant, Texas Mist? I remember you commenting on the routers, etc. Given the fact that LE had a report from a year ago about the Mohlers, could LE have been tracking the computers in JM's home? Just wondering. I'd like to understand this a little more. We've had some strange things happen with our computers and telephones and there's certainly a group of very disgruntled people (our children's rapist's family/friends) who do NOT like us.

On another issue, has anyone seen any mention of Kraig's health? I didn't see anything on the MS pages. I'm thinking that he must have HIV or a serious metabolic disorder. I would think if he was anorexic or undergoing chemo, that would have been mentioned in the reports. He had a great job with benefits so could have easily accessed thyroid meds, chemo, or retrovirals. I wonder if any heavy duty meds he was on could have been a factor in his rage? He does not look like a healthy man. His deceased wife was a trainer and I would think that there would be some mention of a health issue with him if it had been long term. Has anyone seen any older photos?

Missizzy said:

Believe09 and Texas Mist--I am not a techie but have a question. Is this type of cyber-stalking or surveillance what you suspected in the Jared Mohler search warrant, Texas Mist? I remember you commenting on the routers, etc. Given the fact that LE had a report from a year ago about the Mohlers, could LE have been tracking the computers in JM's home? Just wondering. I'd like to understand this a little more. We've had some strange things happen with our computers and telephones and there's certainly a group of very disgruntled people (our children's rapist's family/friends) who do NOT like us.

On another issue, has anyone seen any mention of Kraig's health? I didn't see anything on the MS pages. I'm thinking that he must have HIV or a serious metabolic disorder. I would think if he was anorexic or undergoing chemo, that would have been mentioned in the reports. He had a great job with benefits so could have easily accessed thyroid meds, chemo, or retrovirals. I wonder if any heavy duty meds he was on could have been a factor in his rage? He does not look like a healthy man. His deceased wife was a trainer and I would think that there would be some mention of a health issue with him if it had been long term. Has anyone seen any older photos?

Click to expand...

We can break this out to the jury room or the Mohler thread, but the first thing I would do is call your ISP and phone company and ask them to check for any tracing that might be on your line either at a juncture box or by router. My friends trace was on her juncture box on her phone line.

Thank you Believe09. It's been done before, during the trial. But it wouldn't hurt to have it done again.

I just found this on Kraig Kahler:

The article (dated 9/8/09) states that Mr. Kahler's resignation was asked for and received due to family problems and lack of focus which was unlikely to change. I find it interesting that he was receiving the "maximum separation pay" and thus, would have been far less stressed than I originally thought about finances. I guess that means, though, that his consultancy would have just ended.

This was all about control. But we knew that. I'm still intrigued by the statements that he was a misogynist. That seems to be a very strong label to throw at a guy (very probably deserved but still strange). That statement came from Dan Pingleton, Karen Kahler's attorney. You just don't see labels like that very often. I wonder if this problem was also apparent in the workplace?

http://www.themaneater.com/blogs/politics/

“I have no doubts about Kraig’s professional integrity and intelligence,” Watkins stated in the release, “But he is experiencing some difficult family issues at this time. In my opinion, this has affected his focus on the department in a way that is not likely to change in the near future.”

Watkins said Kahler left his position in good standing and is receiving the maximum separation pay allowed by city ordinance. He is also available on a consultancy basis for the next two months."

Photos from New Years Eve show Kraig Kahler as slight of build. Other photos in the past show this too. Compare his mug shot from his March assault to his recent one and you can tell there is a loss in weight but he was already thin.

All 4 family cars were 1990's models. His recently purchased (June 08) house is for sale at $379,000. I think he lived modestly as the Weatherford, TX Director of Utilities for 10 years and got a huge pay raise coming to Columbia, Mo. The city council had to make an exception to pay him $150,000 per year making him the highest paid city employee.

Karen's tech investigator said he was physically changing router settings and port security settings only. But it took a second visit to her home for him to figure this out. You wouldn't expect the cyber attack coming from inside the home. Other than sitting outside her house picking up her unprotected wireless signal, I am not sure how he was watching and sending out from her email accounts. He was sending out emails to her friends trying to disparage her. He even made a fictitious MySpace page called mommymonster.

I cannot imagine what Karen was going through. She did not hide. She did not run. I think she thought his anger would only be directed toward her. That's the sense that I got when I talked to her about the slashed tires and asked if there is any reason my family should be afraid of this man? She said no and that it was just an annoyance. This was before I even knew it was her husband that was doing this.

I wonder if this piece of flesh sitting in a Kansas jail thinks he won. I wonder if 40 years from now if he will think that it was those around him that made him do these things and it’s not his fault. Can anyone with such a warped sense of reality understand that killing your wife and children is not winning? Will he ever feel sorry for what he has done? What about what he has done to the little boy he spared, what will become of him?

Neighbor--You must be going through quite a bit of trauma after losing your friends. I'm so so sorry for your loss. Was there any concern about Kraig's health and his gaunt appearance? He just doesn't look like a physically healthy man. And all this talk about him being a misogynist (a hater of women). Does that ring true for you?

Who knows what he's thinking. I'm just relieved that the little boy did survive. Is there family available to take him in. His whole world turned upside down.

I can't stop thinking about the way Kraig Kahler looks. I have a good friend who has Graves disease and he went through a period of looking much like Mr. Kahler, before he was successfully treated. I remember him telling me that he just could not figure out what was wrong with his temper as he was agitated and angry all the time, which was totally out of character. Anyway, just a thought about a possible contributing factor:

http://www.thyroid.ca/Guides/HG06.html

The symptoms and signs of Graves' hyperthyroidism are due to the effects of excess amounts of thyroid hormone on body function and metabolism. Common symptoms include weight loss, nervousness, irritability, intolerance to hot weather, excessive sweating, shakiness, and muscle weakness. Other signs include a rapid pulse, loss of body fat and muscle bulk, thyroid enlargement (goitre), fine tremors of the fingers and hot, moist, velvety skin.

About 50% of patients also have significant eye signs (Ophthalmopathy). The eyes, which bulge from their sockets are red and watery and the lids are swollen. Quite often the eyes do not move normally because the swollen eye muscles are unable to work precisely. The remaining 50% of patients with Graves' hyperthyroidism may have slightly bulging eyes because of spasm of the muscle of the lids, giving them a staring appearance.

Thyroid hormones have a wide variety of effects on the body and the symptoms and signs reflect these. In simple terms, all the metabolic processes are "speeded up"; for example, the pulse rate is rapid (over 100), bowel function is increased (diarrhea), and the sweat glands work excessively. The nervous system is also stimulated so that the patient becomes irritable and nervous. Despite increased appetite, the patient usually loses weight because food intake cannot keep up with the increased breakdown of body proteins. The end result is a thin, hot, nervous patient with "poppy" eyes and a goitre - a classical clinical situation quickly recognized by any medical practitioner who has previously seen such a patient."

Neighbor said:

Photos from New Years Eve show Kraig Kahler as slight of build. Other photos in the past show this too. Compare his mug shot from his March assault to his recent one and you can tell there is a loss in weight but he was already thin.

All 4 family cars were 1990's models. His recently purchased (June 08) house is for sale at $379,000. I think he lived modestly as the Weatherford, TX Director of Utilities for 10 years and got a huge pay raise coming to Columbia, Mo. The city council had to make an exception to pay him $150,000 per year making him the highest paid city employee.

Karen's tech investigator said he was physically changing router settings and port security settings only. But it took a second visit to her home for him to figure this out. You wouldn't expect the cyber attack coming from inside the home. Other than sitting outside her house picking up her unprotected wireless signal, I am not sure how he was watching and sending out from her email accounts. He was sending out emails to her friends trying to disparage her. He even made a fictitious MySpace page called mommymonster.

I cannot imagine what Karen was going through. She did not hide. She did not run. I think she thought his anger would only be directed toward her. That's the sense that I got when I talked to her about the slashed tires and asked if there is any reason my family should be afraid of this man? She said no and that it was just an annoyance. This was before I even knew it was her husband that was doing this.

I wonder if this piece of flesh sitting in a Kansas jail thinks he won. I wonder if 40 years from now if he will think that it was those around him that made him do these things and it’s not his fault. Can anyone with such a warped sense of reality understand that killing your wife and children is not winning? Will he ever feel sorry for what he has done? What about what he has done to the little boy he spared, what will become of him?

Click to expand...

I thank you for speaking out for your friend.

For now, I am sure he is at peace for the moment because he completed his mission. Once he realizes that his son will not be under his tutelage or control, he will start to become concerned again and likely agitated.

It sounds to me like he had gone 'round the bend-they removed him from his position and maximized his payout because he must have been exceptional at one time and it was cheaper than rehab or whatever was going to happen if they just canned him outright....ie lawsuit for firing someone who might have been disabled mentally or physically.

It kills me that his wife believed only she was his target-it kills me that she believed he would not murder his own children simply because they were female. I can see his hatred in the action that took their lives-I can see his determination that they would not slip from his grasp. His wife did everything right-and in the end I am in despair because nothing can protect anyone from a human heart bent on destruction.

I was not close to Karen but we were friendly neighbors. We never saw each other outside of our neighborhood and I was never in her home. She picked up my mail for me while I was on vacation and I warned her son about bouncing his baseball off the bricks between the windows of his home. Our kids have a shared back yard. Sean and Lauren would wave to me every day when they went to school. Lauren would ran back inside the house every time because she would forget something while Sean stayed inside the cold Suburban while it slowly warmed up.

It has been a bad time for me and I am just numb. My father past away last year. And more recently a car drove through our house and displaced my family for over a month while they rebuilt our home. Karen came over to see the damage and to see if everyone was alright. This was about the time Kraig was breaking into her house. I have never seen Kraig in person. When she filed for divorce is when her and the kids moved into my neighborhood. I never once saw him pick up the kids for visitation or otherwise. Kraig has to go back to court this Thurs to get the additional murder change since the great grandmother died. I can't understand how he could kill so many people. You would think that when he shot the first one the others would either run or throw something at him or all charge him at once. I just cannot fathom that a well educated person thought this was the only solution.

I saw a report from Burlingame, KS that a cashier at a Casey's saw Karen and daughters in the store in the morning and she saw Kraig in the same store in the afternoon on the day it happened. He did this at 6 pm so he was already in town much earlier than the crime. I think he probably used visitation with Sean as the means to get them together. But if that were the case then he wouldn’t have had to break into the house which is another charge he is facing.

I don't know why the details bug me so much. I just keep thinking about possible links that could have been broken in this awful chain of events.

I don't think Karen thought he wouldn't murder his children because they were girls. She did not think he would that that period. Even to her. She finally left him because she thought "someone was serioulsy going to get hurt" was what she wrote to the judge. She never thought their lives were in danger.

Neighbor--You and Karen might not have been close, but you were neighbors. You obviously connected on some level. You obviously cared. My heart goes out to you as this is a lot of trauma to go through. You've been through a huge shock. Please take care of yourself.

Neighbor said:

I was not close to Karen but we were friendly neighbors. We never saw each other outside of our neighborhood and I was never in her home. She picked up my mail for me while I was on vacation and I warned her son about bouncing his baseball off the bricks between the windows of his home. Our kids have a shared back yard. Sean and Lauren would wave to me every day when they went to school. Lauren would ran back inside the house every time because she would forget something while Sean stayed inside the cold Suburban while it slowly warmed up.

It has been a bad time for me and I am just numb. My father past away last year. And more recently a car drove through our house and displaced my family for over a month while they rebuilt our home. Karen came over to see the damage and to see if everyone was alright. This was about the time Kraig was breaking into her house. I have never seen Kraig in person. When she filed for divorce is when her and the kids moved into my neighborhood. I never once saw him pick up the kids for visitation or otherwise. Kraig has to go back to court this Thurs to get the additional murder change since the great grandmother died. I can't understand how he could kill so many people. You would think that when he shot the first one the others would either run or throw something at him or all charge him at once. I just cannot fathom that a well educated person thought this was the only solution.

I saw a report from Burlingame, KS that a cashier at a Casey's saw Karen and daughters in the store in the morning and she saw Kraig in the same store in the afternoon on the day it happened. He did this at 6 pm so he was already in town much earlier than the crime. I think he probably used visitation with Sean as the means to get them together. But if that were the case then he wouldn’t have had to break into the house which is another charge he is facing.

I don't know why the details bug me so much. I just keep thinking about possible links that could have been broken in this awful chain of events.

I don't think Karen thought he wouldn't murder his children because they were girls. She did not think he would that that period. Even to her. She finally left him because she thought "someone was serioulsy going to get hurt" was what she wrote to the judge. She never thought their lives were in danger.

Click to expand...

Thank you for filling in small details. Neighbor, loss is loss especially when piled onto the year you have had. Make sure you are caring for you and yours. You could not have changed the outcome of this-Kraig is the only one who could have. Being touched in some way by that kind of evil has to be daunting, and incredibly sad.

Kraig had a plan and knew his wife well enough to know that she hoped for the best....and that the plan she knew in her mind was forming against her and her daughters she resisted in her heart because we are taught to believe that love conquers all. I do believe that Kraig will figure out the magnitude of what he has done, but only in relationship to himself. Once he realizes that his life is over, that his ability to be in control is gone forever, he will regret what he has done. I have known people like him-I do not ever use these words lightly but at best he is likely a narcissist and at worst a sociopath. Everything is about him which is why he could not tolerate the blows to his ego. JMO.

Thanks for your support. Here is a better summary than I could give:

http://www.winonadailynews.com/mobile/article_cf3426c2-b3bb-5ea4-b2cb-5a3f6b129459.html

And here are Karen's two girls and a friend several years ago in their rock group Daze Off. Karen played the banjo believe it or not (not in the band). They were not great musicians but they were great kids.



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_vUKm5SlVEA

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JhLajO4Eq4M

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LWfWv7kN6cE&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7vuuml3PqDo&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NDj0vGXFt_U&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nhRUa_UcwRo&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AJ55w1v4iFI

At the end of the Kraig will be remembered, if at all, for being a loser who wasnt man enough to let go. He will be remembered, if at all, for being pathetic.

Karen, Emily and Laura will be loved and cherished forever....along with Gma.

I agree.

Karen and her girls certainly touched a lot of lives. That vibrancy will not be forgotten. Karen and the Grandma must have been fabulous women to have created two such wonderful young ladies.

Maybe some sort of memorial trust could be set up to help other young female musicians--possibly with grants for instruments and studio time. I'll bet the girls would have loved that.

Here is a fund set up for 10 year old Sean Kahler. Use the PayPal button at the bottom to donate.

http://www.karenkahler.blogspot.com/


I like the idea of the music fund in the sisters name too.

http://www.columbiamissourian.com/stories/2009/11/30/slain-woman-had-troubled-marriage-suspect/

Read the comments below the story. Unbelievable.
I lived next door to her since January and I never saw any company other than elderly family from Kansas. The gall.

Abernathy Graves=Kraig Kahler....JMO...just a guess. AS IF any of this is the fault of the victims.

He wouldn't have access to a computer in the Osage County Jail.

Neighbor--Just a suggestion, don't read the comments, please. Turn away as they will cause you nothing but pain. That's what is so wonderful about WS. We are victim-focused. There will be NO blaming the victims for any reason.

Karen obviously loved her children and would not knowingly put them in danger. Kraig is crazy and his actions could not be predicted. We need to stay focused on the real issue here--remembering four lovely women.