trial thread: 3/28/2012

antiquegirl · Mar 28, 2012

Kamille said:
Yes but no description of the other shoe she threw away?

Yes, that's pretty weird, IMO. Neither the Crown nor Derstine asked for any info about the other shoe. Not even how close it was found to the Shaq pair.

snoofer · Mar 28, 2012

~n/t~ said:
Done for the day? :thud:

My sentiments exactly!:thud:

antiquegirl · Mar 28, 2012

snoofer said:
if one thrown away..then other one could still be out there?

If a pair were thrown out at the same time, it wouldn't have been very far from the single one found. I'm sure LE searched very thoroughly. Had they found it, though, I think today would have been the time to mention it.

Such perfunctory questioning about important evidence. Well, about everything. I find it so odd.

JMO

Kamille · Mar 28, 2012

antiquegirl said:
Yes, that's pretty weird, IMO. Neither the Crown nor Derstine asked for any info about the other shoe. Not even how close it was found to the Shaq pair.

Yes...it could be totally irrelevant but you'd think they'd establish that. :waitasec:

snoofer · Mar 28, 2012

~n/t~ said:
Done for the day? :thud:

My sentiments exactly!:thud:

omg :doh: she washed the sneaks and tossed away the shoe!

antiquegirl · Mar 28, 2012

~n/t~ said:
45 minutes? Why bother getting the jury there for this when they could've done it on Friday. This is ridiculous! :banghead::maddening:

They said Friday would be a very full day. Probably no time for this and I think they're trying to keep everything in chronological order. At least the jury is from London, if I'm not mistaken. I feel sorry for the reporters that drove in from Toronto and maybe further for just 50 minutes of testimony.

JMO

snoofer · Mar 28, 2012

antiquegirl said:
If a pair were thrown out at the same time, it wouldn't have been very far from the single one found. I'm sure LE searched very thoroughly. Had they found it, though, I think today would have been the time to mention it.

Such perfunctory questioning about important evidence. Well, about everything. I find it so odd.

JMO

Maybe someone else found the other shoe?:waitasec::twocents:

Kamille · Mar 28, 2012

snoofer said:
if one thrown away..then other one could still be out there?

Well if it's relevant and it was still out there and LE couldn't find it then I would be very disappointed in our OPP.

Could have been a flip flop or a high heeled pump so then it wouldn't be relevant but I would think they would establish that. If I was on the jury I'd be scratching my head right now about that shoe. Why mention it and not talk about it?

Heck I'm not even on the jury and I'm scratching my head about that :waitasec:

MOO

giantalkinghead · Mar 28, 2012

hummmm.... Perhaps MR went back and only found one shoe because "Lillian" had already picked up the other single shoe and TLM's pr.

MOO

AnaTeresa · Mar 28, 2012

~n/t~ said:
45 minutes? Why bother getting the jury there for this when they could've done it on Friday. This is ridiculous! :banghead::maddening:

The court has to balance efficiency and information overload. Plus, this isn't the only case the court is handling - it still has to deal with other things as well. Could be there's off the record haggling going on with the judge, or other cases that the judge needs to deal with. In a fairly large murder trial I observed last year, there would be days where the jury was in for only the morning, but the afternoon was still jam packed with other things behind the scenes in the courtroom with the case, and with the judge handling arraignments and other matters for other cases. Time doesn't just stop when a big trial happens - the court does have to continue its other functions.

antiquegirl · Mar 28, 2012

Kamille said:
Well if it's relevant and it was still out there and LE couldn't find it then I would be very disappointed in our OPP.

Could have been a flip flop or a high heeled pump so then it wouldn't be relevant but I would think they would establish that. If I was on the jury I'd be scratching my head right now about that shoe. Why mention it and not talk about it?

Heck I'm not even on the jury and I'm scratching my head about that :waitasec:

MOO

ITA. They should have established it.

I used to do a lot of driving around - both in Toronto and out of town. Never failed to surprise me how many single and even pairs of shoes I'd see on the road and off to the side of the road. Lots and lots of them. Never understood the phenomenon except to think they fell off the backs of pick-up trucks, or kids threw them out the window.

IF the single shoe found by Lillian was one of the pair belonging to MTR, it shouldn't have been far from the missing one. Anyone searching for it should have found it, whether it was LE or MTR himself. If it had been MTR, he would have also picked up the one found by Lillian. So, I suspect this single, missing shoe had no relation to the Shaq pair, which is why no more was said about it. Frustrating for us, but unimportant to the investigation.

JMO

antiquegirl · Mar 28, 2012

giantalkinghead said:
hummmm.... Perhaps MR went back and only found one shoe because "Lillian" had already picked up the other single shoe and TLM's pr.

MOO

That's possible, but then why didn't the Crown ask Lillian to describe the one she found and its proximity to the Shaq pair? If there had been the remotest possibility that it was MTR's shoe, I think more info would have been heard.

JMO

antiquegirl · Mar 28, 2012

snoofer said:
My sentiments exactly!:thud:

omg :doh: she washed the sneaks and tossed away the shoe!

Well, that now explains how clean they were and the presence of the shopping bag.

JayFriend · Mar 28, 2012

Sailor Bug said:
RaffertyLFP: Based on information from Terri-Lynne McClintic Scoyne said police mounted more intensive search of Sideroad 6 starting May 21, 2009

Court shown aerial view of Sideroad 6 in relation to Home Depot in Guelph

Scoyne said police obtained Shaq shoes found by Metcalfe on May 30

Scoyne says Metcalfe had the shoes in a plastic grocery bag. Police eventually seized them. They were told Metcalfe cleaned the shoes

Scoyne points out that shoes were laced in peculiar fashion, tucked behind tongue

In earlier testimony McClintic said she tied her shoes in that fashion

So the woman cleaned the shoes so she could donate them to the Sally Ann. When I clean running shoes, I remove the laces and throw everything in the washing machine. Obviously, she didn't even unlace them. It's possible forensics did find DNA, since they were only cleaned superficially. We will see. However, TLM has already confessed to kicking Tori and lacing her shoes that particular way. Nothing new here, just confirming what we've learned.

giantalkinghead · Mar 28, 2012

snoofer said:
My sentiments exactly!:thud:

omg :doh: she washed the sneaks and tossed away the shoe!

My sentiments as well ! Leaves me to wonder though... they couldn't have had any obvious signs of blood on them. Firstly, who finds and the WASHES blood soaked shoes ??? Secondly, if there "HAD" been obvious blood on the shoes -- certainly the Crown would have asked their witness !! One would hope anyhow !

MOO

dilbert · Mar 28, 2012

The Crown will have to delay the rest of its testimony for this part of the trial because it is moving along "ahead of schedule" says Attorney Michael Carnegie. They have experts booked to testify at certain times and are unable to move those availabilities up.

http://www.newstalk1010.com/blog/michaelrafferty/blogentry.aspx?BlogEntryID=10364706

Lots of evidence posted on that blog too. HTH

eace:

Kamille · Mar 28, 2012

antiquegirl said:
ITA. They should have established it.

I used to do a lot of driving around - both in Toronto and out of town. Never failed to surprise me how many single and even pairs of shoes I'd see on the road and off to the side of the road. Lots and lots of them. Never understood the phenomenon except to think they fell off the backs of pick-up trucks, or kids threw them out the window.

IF the single shoe found by Lillian was one of the pair belonging to MTR, it shouldn't have been far from the missing one. Anyone searching for it should have found it, whether it was LE or MTR himself. If it had been MTR, he would have also picked up the one found by Lillian. So, I suspect this single, missing shoe had no relation to the Shaq pair, which is why no more was said about it. Frustrating for us, but unimportant to the investigation.

JMO

Maybe something was said but it was missed in the tweets? Like the other shoe was found half a mile away or something. And was a ladies dress shoe or something. No idea how far Lillian walks LOL. Not a lot of reporters out there today. Will have to watch for the news articles. Sometimes they fill in stuff that the tweets don't.

MOO

Sailor Bug · Mar 28, 2012

There were so many shoes, boots clothing and other items that were flagged by searchers from Woodstock, to Guelph, Fergus Cambridge all along hiway 6 and through to Mount Forest.

That undertaking alone of having to go through all the flagged items was immense.

antiquegirl · Mar 28, 2012

Kamille said:
Maybe something was said but it was missed in the tweets? Like the other shoe was found half a mile away or something. And was a ladies dress shoe or something. No idea how far Lillian walks LOL. Not a lot of reporters out there today. Will have to watch for the news articles. Sometimes they fill in stuff that the tweets don't.

MOO

London Free Press‏@RaffertyLFP

Sometime in March April 2009 she went for a walk near her home can't recall exact day

We know she couldn't have found them in March, so have to assume it was early April.

London Free Press‏@RaffertyLFP

Metcalfe was contacted on Sat May 30 by police.They were searching the area. She told police that she had found the shoes

She intended to give them to charity, but still had them in that shopping bag almost two months after finding them. What a lucky break for LE.

JMO

Sailor Bug · Mar 28, 2012

giantalkinghead said:
My sentiments as well ! Leaves me to wonder though... they couldn't have had any obvious signs of blood on them. Firstly, who finds and the WASHES blood soaked shoes ??? Secondly, if there "HAD" been obvious blood on the shoes -- certainly the Crown would have asked their witness !! One would hope anyhow !

MOO

When Tori went missing it was snowing and then was followed by weeks and weeks of cold rain

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