Walk a mile in Kaine's shoes...

I don't despise Kaine or D -- far from it. I'm glad there is a message board where we can all discuss our feelings on the situation, whether another poster may or may not agree. I'll go on to say that unless LE names TH as a POI, I have to question K & D's actions and statements. But that doesn't mean I despise them --but that I don't support some of the things they are saying.

JMO, and thank you for a well written, thought out post.

Hugs,

Mel

mmmagique said:

I'd like to put this whole "one small comment" idea to rest.

Many of us have said (and will say again...*raises hand*) "I'll kill him/her" or "I wish (s)he were dead." That is one small comment. I've never actually meant it...it's just a phrase, basically.

If however, you begin talking to another person about how best to bring it about, how much it will cost you, and the best time to do it...it's a bit different, isn't it?

The reason (imo) that Terri hasn't been arrested on this particular charge is that LE knows that she can't keep her mouth shut... they're giving her the rope, she's making the noose.

Were I in Kaine's shoes, I'd have made the same decisions. He does after all, have another small child to look after. He, (and the baby) are better safe than sorry.

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Do you have a link from MSM to what she said to the LS in regards to the alleged mfh plot?

I agree with you that a detailed conversation is way different than "I wish she were dead". So, if you have a link to what actually transpired, please share it. As of yet, I do not recall seeing one. So putting to rest the conversation surrounding what was said is almost impossible.

From what I know, it could have been 'one small conversation' to 'please kill my husband and heres how to do it'. We don't know, hence the "well if it was xyz this is how I would react..." and the "BUT if this is what happened here is how I would act".

pittsburghgirl said:

I don't understand why Kaine has done what he has done, but then I am not privy to what LE has told him, first about the murder for hire and second, about Kyron's disappearance. A number of parents have become suspects in their child's disappearance or murder, and the spouse stands by the suspected parent, presumably because he or she thinks that suspect is innocent. But in this case, Kaine leaves with the baby and files for divorce immediately. Divorce is not an easy step to contemplate, and especially not being on the run (so to speak) with a baby while another child is missing. So I have to think he was told something convincing and devastating. something that may have made any number of other moments fall into place for him.

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I see it the same way. LE relates the landscaper's story to Kaine, and the details jive with other events he recalls that in and of themselves don't amount to anything, but when compared to the details of the LS's tale, the pieces, as you say, fall into place.

If I'm Kaine, alarms are now screeching in my head. My little boy has disappeared into thin air, from school no less. I know he didn't just wander off on his own, and a stranger abducting him from inside the building seems so unlikely. Terri can't seem to pass a polygraph exam, and now LE tells me she wanted to have me killed. That's crazy. Terri would never do that, yet I can't deny what they've told me because the facts add up. How could I have been so blind and stupid? My stupidity might've cost Kyron his life! WTH do I do now? Do I confront her? What would I say? Apparently, I don't know this woman at all, and I wouldn't know how to talk to her. In fact, I don't even want to see her face. She'll just deny it all, anyway. If she did those things, there's no telling what else she might do. And if I stick around, there's no telling what I might do to her! I've got to get K out of here immediately before Terri catches on. I can't risk a confrontation. It's too dangerous.

Then I'd gather up important legal docs, a few bare essentials for the baby and myself, and I'd be out the door in a flash. Terri be damned.

stmarysmead said:

Can you imagine any circumstances where Kaine might feel there was nothing Terri could say that would change anything?

The obligation to hear HER side of the story and give it equal weight to LE...once again...depends on what exactly LE had in evidence to show him.

Maybe there are things only Terri would know in emails to the Landscaper...or texts of Terri "similar" to the sexting she did with his friend...combined with hopes he would die.

At that point, whatever could the spouse say that you could stay in the house or keep you Baby in her care?

And if he believed in Terri and supported her...as it appeared he did in those first days...WHAT A SHOCK to this grieving Father!

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Here's how it goes when I try to put myself in Kaine's shoes:

My child has gone missing. Shock, fear, a bit of panic rolling through my usually calm gut. But this can't last long. He'll come walking through the door in a minute on the shoulders of a cop, with an ice cream in his hands. There must be a mistake. He must have just wandered off somewhere and gotten lost or something. Maybe he got on the wrong bus. Maybe he went home with a friend. He'll be back soon. They'll find him. They'll find him.
The hours tick by. The hours turn to days. They begin to approach weeks. I'm sick now. I'm so scared. The media is everywhere. Kyron, my own little boy, his face is everywhere, on the news, on posters. My kid is missing and he has not come back.
I can't sleep. It's hard to eat. I speak with LE all day, every day. I try to organize what to do. LE tells me not to say much to the media or anyone else. They are afraid that could harm our chances of getting him back quickly. I don't know what to do. I feel like I'm on autopilot. I stay quiet. I try to find ways to help and I keep my loved ones close.
But my wife has been acting in ways that bother me somewhat. Maybe doesn't seem so concerned, a little off. Then she tells me she's failed a poly, and then stalks out of a second. Then she fails a subsequent one and tells me. She was the last person to see our son. I start to think about how she has changed a bit since our baby was born. A little more strict with my son. Ups and downs. Depression. Odd behavior perhaps. I get a nagging feeling deep in my subconscious but it's my wife we're talking about. She loves Kyron. She raised him with me. I need her so much right now. I'm so scared. So I choke back any nagging doubts that are trying to surface. I'm just trying to get through another day, with LE at the house, relatives and friends calling non-stop, media everywhere and always, always, the panic: Where is my little boy?
Then, one day LE calls me in for a meeting. Oh sh$t. What's this? "Kaine, we need to talk to you about some startling info. It is our duty to tell you the following: A guy surfaced recently. Said he was hired by your wife about 6 months ago to do some landscaping. Said Terri told him she was in a bad marriage and wanted you dead. Wondered if he knew anyone who could do anything like that. [WHAT?!??] We have something else we need to tell you. We need to tell you that Terri's story is just not adding up regarding Kyron. She can't adequately account for a large block of time on the day Kyron went missing. She failed her polygraphs when asked whether she has harmed your son. We have other information that indicates there is probable cause to believe she is involved with Kyron's disappearance."
The room begins to spin. I'm reeling. I feel like someone shot me in the stomach. I feel dazed. Suddenly, a hundred small things that nagged at my brain begin to surface in a rush. She has not been acting right. Something's been off. I could feel it. She's my wife. I knew something was wrong. But I love her and I have been so consumed with Kyron, with getting him back, that I have not been paying attention to signals from my spouse. Things start to make horrible sense all of a sudden. Is this really happening?
I ask them if she is going to be arrested. They reply, "We're working on that. But right now we don't know where Kyron is or what exactly she did with him. We may have enough to arrest her for taking Kyron but it's probably not enough to gain a conviction yet so we're still working."
My heart is thumping now, so hard. The thought I never wanted to have begins to enter my brain. If she could have done these things, if she's lying now, if she tried to find someone to kill me, she must hate me. She must be nuts. She must really want to hurt me and I never knew. How could I be so stupid? If this is real, could she have wanted to hurt me bad enough to kill my son? My hands shake and thinking of Kyron at the mercy of this stranger that slept in my bed, makes my eyes fill with tears. I don't want to know but I have to ask. "Is he dead? Did she kill him? Please tell me she didn't!" My eyes are pleading with them to spare me. They see my pain and gently, the detective puts a hand on my shoulder to steady me and says, "We have no indication at this time that Kyron is dead. We need to focus on finding him and not dwelling on that possibility, okay? You need to stay strong and keep you and your family safe so you can help us find your boy." I find I was sitting bolt upright in the seat, every muscle tensed, but now, I slump back a little.
Next, LE tells me they want to bring Desiree in now and let her know what's happening. They ask if I'm ready. I think about what she's going to feel when she hears what I have just heard. I think of the child we made together, who I was supposed to protect. I think about how I brought Terri into his life when he was so tiny and exposed him to that danger. I failed him and I failed Desiree. I put my head in my hands as I wait for them to bring Desiree in, and I begin to sob.

gardeness said:

It depends on what was said--was it, as I suspect, that the whole MFH idea was one small comment that was blown out of proportion, or was it that Terri offered an amount for this murder to occur at this place, date, and time?

I don't call myself a data-driven person, but I guess I am the sort of person to question accusations before going off half-cocked. I would need more proof and justification than a comment. (But, then, that's how I see this entire case anyways--in severe need of proof!)

ETA:--and there couldn't have been much in the way of "proof", or Terri would have been arrested immediately...moo

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IMO it is rather unlikely that LE would call a small comment such as "I hate him, I wish he was dead!" a murder for hire plot because I guarantee you that TONS of people would be in jail now for MFH if that sort of thing was enough. (I might be among them.)

rnmif said:

Me too. I find this so hard to understand.

It's not like they had only been together for a couple of years. How can you marry someone and know that little about them?

I am confused when KH says that he didn't know, that he was shocked, that he thought everything was fine, and then he left what was apparently minutes after LE informed him?

That kind of leap is hard for me to make heads or tails of. If I truly believed everything he seemed to believe about his marriage on June 3rd, then I would have to hear the interviews with the LS myself, and then I'd have to talk to my spouse about it. There's no way I would just assume that the person I loved and trusted had suddenly become a monster.

Kaine is a bright guy. How did he miss the Leviathan in his living room?

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BBM. I guess the same way Chris Coleman's wife did and Mark Hacking's and scott peterson's wife. You know, like thousands of other people that thought their spouse seemed okay...until one day they weren't.

cluciano63 said:

I don't get the feeling anyone here despises Kaine. Questioning some actions, well, it is really all we have on this case to do. But unlike other forums, I've not seen much in the way of "bashing" Kaine or Desiree. I certainly don't ever mean to do so, but it seems that if someone has not yet decided that Terri is guilty, they are thought to be bashing others in the family.

As far as evidence they showed Kaine-I believe if they had actual evidence to show him, she would have been charged.

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BBM.

I know you follow enough of these case to know that's just not always realistic. Often, LE has a lot of evidence but not enough to gain a conviction. Enough to let them know they are barking up the right tree. Enough to know they need more. Like casey anthony's case. They knew she killed her kid but couldn't arrest her for that right away. Same with scott peterson. LE may know that someone is guilty but knowing and proving beyond a reasonable doubt are two different things. They often take a lot of time.

gitana1 said:

BBM. I guess the same way Chris Coleman's wife did and Mark Hacking's and scott peterson's wife. You know, like thousands of other people that thought their spouse seemed okay...until one day they weren't.

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Two problems I have with those analogies:

The spouses were all victims, and were not able to tell us after the fact whether or not there were warning signs.

And the victims were all women, and the perps were all men.

Which is pretty much how the statistics bear out.

Beyond that, TMH has managed to live a lot of years without any serious red flags, something most assuredly not true of most other female murderers.

rnmif said:

Two problems I have with those analogies:

The spouses were all victims, and were not able to tell us after the fact whether or not there were warning signs.

And the victims were all women, and the perps were all men.

Which is pretty much how the statistics bear out.

Beyond that, TMH has managed to live a lot of years without any serious red flags, something most assuredly not true of most other female murderers.

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Hey, we're both night owls!
Well, listen, one can try to take apart one aspect of any point or argument made to try to deconstruct that point or argument. But that does not mean the point or argument is not valid. The people I mentioned above had plenty of victims who are still alive (the family of the person killed). They were all fooled as well.
There are tons of stories out there of people who talk about learning their spouse had lead a double life, was married to another person in a different state at the same time and the spouse had no clue, etc.
There are also plenty of women criminals who hide their true natures fairly well. Everyone thought Susan Smith was an excellent mother. Most people interviewed said the same about casey anthony. She was a great mom, loved her kid, never hit, very attentive. The fact is, some of these criminals have personality disorders that allow them to manipulate those around them to make everyone think they are normal and good. Some of them actually were normal and good and just snapped all of a sudden due to psychological issues.
But I do think there are usually signs. I think even the most polished sociopath gives off signals to others that there is something not quite right.
Yet, some people are not good at reading those signals, or ignore them, not trusting their own judgment, or they're in denial out of desperation to make the relationship work. This is true with women who feel they must be married to be normal, for example, or people who already have one failed marriage behind their belts and can't face another. This could also be the case with people who are very busy and stressed or people who aren't very in touch with emotions to begin with.
Finally, we don't know that TH has gone all these years without serious red flags. It appears there were some signs, though. Like treatment for some mental issues after Baby K was born, changes in personality, appearance, etc. It is often only in hindsight that people see what they didn't before. I bet Kyron's parents are seeing a lot of things they never considered prior to this tragedy.

rnmif said:

Two problems I have with those analogies:

The spouses were all victims, and were not able to tell us after the fact whether or not there were warning signs.

And the victims were all women, and the perps were all men.

Which is pretty much how the statistics bear out.

Beyond that, TMH has managed to live a lot of years without any serious red flags, something most assuredly not true of most other female murderers.

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From recent headlines:
http://www.wptv.com/dpp/news/region...-lucie-woman-arrested-in-murder-for-hire-plot

http://www.detnews.com/article/2010...County-woman-arrested-in-murder-for-hire-plot

http://www.kplr11.com/news/sns-ap-mo--coldcase-sentence,0,6560625.story

All Three of those stories were published this week.

It's not an uncommon crime.

The fact that we don't see red flags doesn't mean the plot was not put in motion, nor does it mean it was. JMHO.

It just means that we internet readers haven't seen anything reported that we deem a red flag.

Not all women who commit the crime of murder for hire plots have a criminal history (I don't have time at this moment to go look them up sorry). JMHO.

Not all women (or men either) that commit an act of homicide have a criminal history. JMHO.

I don't know if TH did or didn't. At this point I don't care if she did or didn't.

Where is Kyron?

On Topic: I can't walk a mile in Kaine's shoes. I wouldn't make it three steps. I would be crawling. I don't know how he does it from day to day. I just want to know where is this baby boy? Every day I come and read the news thread. Nothing. <sigh> JMHO.

Good points, Gitana.

ITA and I would like to add that sometimes the persons left behind are in a double bind about whether to acknowledge there were warning signs or not.
After a tragedy happens there are always "what if I's" and "if only I's" and some people might have to psychologically shield themselves from the unbearable pain of having to say "I could have prevented this from happening if only I hadn't decided to ignore the warning signs" by using denial as a defence mechanism. Maybe they chose not to act on them for fear of conflict, interpersonal bad feelings, violence or divorce or in the hopes that prayer would make it all better, failing to realize how serious it was because Uncle Dick was the same and things turned out okay for him in the end or it must be just the stress and it'll pass, just give it time....Etc.

Sometimes they might acknowledge the guilt to themselves but be unwilling to discuss the matter in public because they are afraid of being faced with the accusatory "why didn't you's". In extreme cases it might be in some victims' self-interest to deny that there were warning signs because the warning signs were serious enough that the child protective services would be interested in finding out why it was not reported earlier and possibly wanting to remove the remaining children, or because the warning signs were not exclusively the intellectual property of the offending spouse but the rest of them have problems too. For example if the principal warning sign is drug use and the survivors use too.

I'm not saying any of this applies to Kaine, just generally speaking.

bessie said:

I see it the same way. LE relates the landscaper's story to Kaine, and the details jive with other events he recalls that in and of themselves don't amount to anything, but when compared to the details of the LS's tale, the pieces, as you say, fall into place.

If I'm Kaine, alarms are now screeching in my head. My little boy has disappeared into thin air, from school no less. I know he didn't just wander off on his own, and a stranger abducting him from inside the building seems so unlikely. Terri can't seem to pass a polygraph exam, and now LE tells me she wanted to have me killed. That's crazy. Terri would never do that, yet I can't deny what they've told me because the facts add up. How could I have been so blind and stupid? My stupidity might've cost Kyron his life! WTH do I do now? Do I confront her? What would I say? Apparently, I don't know this woman at all, and I wouldn't know how to talk to her. In fact, I don't even want to see her face. She'll just deny it all, anyway. If she did those things, there's no telling what else she might do. And if I stick around, there's no telling what I might do to her! I've got to get K out of here immediately before Terri catches on. I can't risk a confrontation. It's too dangerous.

Then I'd gather up important legal docs, a few bare essentials for the baby and myself, and I'd be out the door in a flash. Terri be damned.

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bbm

Except he has maintained and stated repeatedly since then that he had no clue anything like this was going on behind his back, and there have been interviews where he and desiree both have said they've gone over this time and again, trying to figure out what they may have missed. So I don't think pieces fell into place, I think it simply happened as he said. LE told him about a possible MFH plot and suggested he get out with the baby, so he did just that.

Calliope said:

bbm

Except he has maintained and stated repeatedly since then that he had no clue anything like this was going on behind his back, and there have been interviews where he and desiree both have said they've gone over this time and again, trying to figure out what they may have missed. So I don't think pieces fell into place, I think it simply happened as he said. LE told him about a possible MFH plot and suggested he get out with the baby, so he did just that.

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The way I understood the post about pieces falling into place it doesn't necessarily mean that Kaine had a clue that anything like this was going on behind his back before Kyron went missing, it just means that afterwards, some details of whatever he found out made sense with what he knew before and some things that he previously didn't take to mean that Terri was trying to hurt anybody could be interpreted differently.

For example if LE told him that the LS knew where and when he went to his dentist's appointments and checked it out in his schedule and found out the LS had the correct info. He remembers Terri asking about it which was just a little strange but nice at the time because they usually didn't talk that much. Or if he didn't know that Terri had hired a landscaper but had noticed some yard work had been done and had thought it was quite a feat for Terri to have done it with the baby in tow, finding out she had a secret landscaper would be such a jigsaw piece. (I don't know if the LS actually did any yard work or if Kaine has a dentist, I'm just making up examples.)

Calliope said:

bbm

Except he has maintained and stated repeatedly since then that he had no clue anything like this was going on behind his back, and there have been interviews where he and desiree both have said they've gone over this time and again, trying to figure out what they may have missed. So I don't think pieces fell into place, I think it simply happened as he said. LE told him about a possible MFH plot and suggested he get out with the baby, so he did just that.

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I'm thinking of a term from Literature class..."denouement"...that moment of awakening when all the pieces come together. The "AHA!" moment when we finally see the forest and not the trees.

I believe that is what happened when LE spoke to Kaine...many odd little things that he could not string together, or that he had convinced himself were just a "mood" or unimportant...suddenly came together and slammed him in the gut.

The fact that Terri has not been arrested for the Murder-for-Hire plot may mean there is not enough evidence to charge her with the crime and get a conviction. But it does NOT mean that there is not enough evidence to show her duplicity, rage and corrupt value system.,,,and therefore enhance her prospects as a suspect in Kyron's disappearance to LE and destroy her marriage to Kaine.

The idea that LE would just pass along unsubstantiated gossip without additional evidence and invest themselves in a "sting" passed just on loose talk...means , once again, I must invest in Terri as more "sinned against than sinning." Whatever there is IMO...ramped up her viability as a suspect...even if it is just evidence of living a successful double life...and fooling those close to her into believing she was devoted when she despised them. That may not be enough to charge her...but learning these things about her emotional state, her ability to live a lie, her capacity for rage...probably moved her right up the scale as a "focus."

Suppose you had a small business with three seemingly devoted employees. The police come to investigate a series of thefts. You vouch that all three of these people are devoted to you. None can be the thief. They tell LE the same thing. Everything is roses in our little office. Then, in the course of the investigation, LE finds hateful emails or texts, wherein one of these "devoted employees" wishes for your death, is seething with anger, just oozing hate.

I suppose if this employee were then discharged...someone might try to say the employer was too hasty..or LE was too free with the information. Nevertheless, there was deception of the rawest kind. Maybe not enough to prove the theft...but enough to want that employee gone. Someone might argue the Employer should have "talked" to this employee. But sometimes IMO the damage to trust leaves nothing more to be said. Particularly if one had truly believed...had truly been fooled. The person you THOUGHT you knew...never really existed.

I believe Kaine was blind-sided. And to the extent that Desiree believed Kyron was living in a normal, happy home...she was too. IMO, Terri was another person behind the mask. That alone is enough to explain why Kaine had to take his Baby daughter and move out. To do anything else would have been irresponsible.
In my humble opinion only, of course.

I've thought seriously about walking in KH's shoes, but aside from being a parent with a missing child, I don't know enough about him, his family, or his day-to-day life to even put his shoes on. Until I know more I can only wonder how the father of a "missing" child feels.

When I say "missing", I'm saying no one knows what happened to Kyron, just that he isn't where he is supposed to be. "Missing", to me, can mean an infinite number of things, and LE doesn't even appear to know what crime was perpetrated.

Until I know more about this case I can't walk in anyone's shoes, but I can understand, to a point, the horror TH must be feeling at the destruction of life as she knew it - especially if she is innocent.

My opinion only

Trident said:

I've thought seriously about walking in KH's shoes, but aside from being a parent with a missing child, I don't know enough about him, his family, or his day-to-day life to even put his shoes on. Until I know more I can only wonder how the father of a "missing" child feels.

When I say "missing", I'm saying no one knows what happened to Kyron, just that he isn't where he is supposed to be. "Missing", to me, can mean an infinite number of things, and LE doesn't even appear to know what crime was perpetrated.

Until I know more about this case I can't walk in anyone's shoes, but I can understand, to a point, the horror TH must be feeling at the destruction of life as she knew it - especially if she is innocent.

My opinion only

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Well, then TH shouldn't have helped destroy her own life. I can't put on her shoes because she did a lot of this to herself. She basically put a target on her back with the sexting, inability to account for specific times, asking someone to lie to her lawyer, the batphones, I could go on and on. If I was falsely accused of a crime, the LAST thing I would do is act like I'm guilty or give the police any more reason to suspect me. Yet she did that for WEEKS. She just couldn't shut her mouth or not do anything that didn't point right back at her. I think she cooperated for about two seconds before realizing that the police were focusing on her in ways she didn't want them to. This did NOT go as she planned at all, and she's been thinking she can fight it and get away with it ever since. How's that working for you, Terri?

But Kaine, I really feel for Kaine. No, I've never had a missing child, and I hope that never happens to me. I'd be a mess. I'd be incoherent and unable to deal with life second to second. I'd be in a mental institution, my life totally destroyed. I don't know how he held it together long enough to get his child out of his own home after what the police told him. I don't know how he hasn't throttled Terri at least for wanting him dead. That is not right. And having her story about the day Kyron disappeared not add up at all is even worse. I would be totally insane, trying to kill the person I thought did this to me, and who knows what else. That Kaine has not ever physically threatened Terri, that the only thing she's suffering from is spoken and written threatening words, is a miracle to me. I applaud him for holding up so well. I applaud him for doing everything possible to locate his son. I applaud him for not hiding behind lawyers, isolated and alone, and doing nothing to help anyone but himself. If Terri's innocent, she's the most guilty looking innocent person I have ever seen in my entire life.

And hindsight sucks. That's why it's hindsight. When something is going on, like a marriage or friendship, and things seem hunky dory, you don't look for what's wrong. It's human nature to see the best of people. If we walked around constantly suspicious of everyone, society would be in chaos. Kaine thought Terri was a good person and invited her into his life. It's not a sin that he didn't realize what a bad person she really was until it was too late. We all do that. We all don't want to believe that a person could be bad enough to want to physically hurt someone else. I don't know how many cases I've heard about where there were many warning signs that just kept being ignored because my child/wife/sibling couldn't possibly ever want to physically hurt me. And then those in denial end up dead. And everyone who knew the perpetrator is suddenly remembering warning signs too. That's why it's called hindsight because realizing what you missed is a huge kick to your rear.

I just don't get that it's harder to put on Kaine's shoes, but so much easier to put on Terri's. It is the exact opposite for me. I could never put on the shoes of someone who only thinks and acts for themselves. I can, however, put on the shoes of someone who obviously loves his son dearly and would do anything, even give his own life, to get his son back. Yet he's the one constantly scrutinized for every move, and no matter what Terri does, she's still thought of as innocent. That just does not make any sense to me. All IMO, of course.

Aedrys said:

I just don't get that it's harder to put on Kaine's shoes, but so much easier to put on Terri's. It is the exact opposite for me. I could never put on the shoes of someone who only thinks and acts for themselves. I can, however, put on the shoes of someone who obviously loves his son dearly and would do anything, even give his own life, to get his son back. Yet he's the one constantly scrutinized for every move, and no matter what Terri does, she's still thought of as innocent. That just does not make any sense to me. All IMO, of course.

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sbm bbm....

Terri is thought of as being guilty by most posters on ws anyway - looking at the fence sitting thread will show this.

I don't find anything Kaine's done particularly odd under the circumstances he's in. I DO find the man himself a bit odd, and I really can't put my finger on what it is that bugs me, but that's probably because I don't really know him.

His leaving TH with the baby makes perfectly good sense to me given the info he received from LE, I just pray for everyone it was valid information. I do find TH's email to him right after he left where she says "hey, you're mad at me, let's talk, etc." interesting and the fact that she apparently had no clue as to what was going on. I wonder why he told her he left. Doesn't sound like he mentioned the MFHP. Anyway, Kaine is behaving the way he is because he's Kaine and I don't think his shoes fit me anyway. LOL JMO

It's really not for any of us to judge what Kaine did as far as taking baby K and leaving. Obviously, he had good reason based on what he was told by LE and he did what he did to protect his daughter, the only child he has left at this point. I don't blame him one single bit and can only feel extreme sadness and sympathy as far as he is concerned.

Kaine says he was unaware that there was anything wrong. (dancing shoes)

Kaine says that his wife was talking to everyone else but him about what was wrong. (dress shoes)

Kaine says that they had their problems but they were working them out. (sneakers)

Which pair of shoes should someone attempt to put on?