I may be repeat infromation posted earlier, but according to an 2002 FBI report, it may not be possible to obtain a DNA profile using STR (short Tandem Repeat) on old or degrade blood or semen samples. The report suggests mtDNA (mitochondrial) can be used on very hair or bone samples, but were any taken that could be from the perpetrator at the 1961 body site? But DNA is advancing.
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NM NM - Patty Pritz, 14, & Mattie Restine, 13, Carlsbad, 11 Aug 1961 - #1
- Thread starter TOM BEYER
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An old DNA analysizing technique called RFLP (restriction fragment length polymorphism) actually has proved successful on old, but large samples (size of a US Quarter). An enhancing techique called PCR (polymerase chain reaction) has been used on very small samples to enlarge them. I'm wondering if this was considered.
Sunshine 1950
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I'm going to repeat - only 1/3 of murder cases are solved with DNA. 2/3 are solved the old fashioned way - fingerprints, confessions, eye witness testimony. Someone out there knows plenty and hasn't spoken.
But the problem is the ECSO isn't going to talk to anyone. They say everything is hearsay. So that is why we continue to talk about getting more dna ...if possible.
This lady that was molested by WDB & DB went in and talked with the current investigator and he still said it was hearsay...now to me that isn't hearsay. This is one of the 10 year old girls that was molested by WDB...and the Hughes man gave WDB an alibi...even when these girls father & mother went in and told the law enforcement agencies what happened...they said the girls were to young to know what happened or didn't happen to them. He (investigator) politely dismissed this ladies statements and told me it was hearsay. So what do you do in that case?
sassymomtx
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Leroy and Imajean Rogge owned the little grocery store. It is no longer open. I do not believe that any of the family are still alive. They were well known in the West Carlsbad area where the store was.
Thank you Tom! In the original reports it also speaks about slides of swaps taken vaginally from Patty. Slides would be encased in glass to my knowledge and they should contain dna IF Patty was raped. We know that she was torchured. Perhaps it was not rape but a continuation of the torture. If you understand my meaning without getting too graphic. The autopsy says that Haynes believed the marks on Patty around the breast area were from a stick or rock. The samples that were tested that did not show spermazota but initially tested positive for sperm were from Mattie's body. The FBI stated that the lack of spermazota could have been from deteriation. They weren't tested for over 40 years and we don't know how the were housed up until the testing. The slides it seems would be a different story.
sassymomtx
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My husband and I have been trying to think of a grocery store (Roses) on Canal st or Canyon. We remember that during the 1960's there was a little convenience type store on S. Canal St. It was on the corner of S Canal and W Fiesta Drive. The Fiesta Drive in Movie was down the street from them. I don't know if this is much help.
I am new to this and posting threads has been difficult. I was trying to highlight one of the statements above and my answer. What happened was that my thread went to page 41 and did not highlight the quote at all so it appears that it was something I was saying myself. I guess I'll work out the kinks but feel free to help me if you like.
Faraway girl, I'm sure I probably know you. One key that we have been trying to find is Margaret Warble. Margaret and Patty were best friends. There could have been other friends that were close to Patty also. There are questions that need to be answered that only someone close to Patty can answer. Did you know Margaret? She needs to be found. Even if we had her parents names that would help. Also, Ronnie Rice! As far as I can tell those were the two people closest to Patty. It would really help to find out if they have any information that would help. I wonder if the school system in Carlsbad still has records and if they would give us any information. Any one that was close to Patty would help. Both of her sisters are deceased as well as her mother. She has half sisters but they were not raised together. Please anyone that knew Patty well talk to Sunshine.
farawaygirl
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Faraway girl, I'm sure I probably know you. One key that we have been trying to find is Margaret Warble. Margaret and Patty were best friends. There could have been other friends that were close to Patty also. There are questions that need to be answered that only someone close to Patty can answer. Did you know Margaret? She needs to be found. Even if we had her parents names that would help. Also, Ronnie Rice! As far as I can tell those were the two people closest to Patty. It would really help to find out if they have any information that would help. I wonder if the school system in Carlsbad still has records and if they would give us any information. Any one that was close to Patty would help. Both of her sisters are deceased as well as her mother. She has half sisters but they were not raised together. Please anyone that knew Patty well talk to Sunshine.
I'm pretty sure I know you also. When you grow up in Carlsbad, you get to know most of the people, somehow, someway. I've used a private investigator to locate someone before. Of course, he costs me a pretty penny! I am checking with my sisters on Margaret Warble and Ronnie Rice. They may have known them or their siblings. I don't know about the schools but it's worth a try.
farawaygirl
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My older sister graduated in 1960 and there is a Ruth Ann Warble in her yearbook. She didn't know her well, but sort of remembers her. So maybe we could also search for Ruth Ann, maybe THEY were sisters. And my sister knows a Raymond Rice, she thought maybe he could be a brother. Or these could be relatives, at least. She is going to try to find out.
My older sister graduated in 1960 and there is a Ruth Ann Warble in her yearbook. She didn't know her well, but sort of remembers her. So maybe we could also search for Ruth Ann, maybe THEY were sisters. And my sister knows a Raymond Rice, she thought maybe he could be a brother. Or these could be relatives, at least. She is going to try to find out.
Thank you! Warble and Rice aren't that common of names so they are likely related and that may help in locating them. I know there was a Buddy Rice that graduated in 1964 but I don't know if he is related or not. Finding Margaret could really really help us! Unfortunately the census records for 1961aren't available on line yet. I don't know how to access those, does anyone know? I used to have an old phone book from Carlsbad but I haven't been able to find it. I wonder if the library there might have those available?
farawaygirl
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It's seems like I'm the only one on here now. I came into this about a week ago and I see where it was pretty much discontinued in December. I have hope for the case, as long as people that care are still alive. Even though the killer may have gotten away in this life, he will still face eternal punishment. I also believe that finding the killer is about honoring Patty and Mattie's memory. We just cannot give up!
What was the address of Earl Nichols on Bonita Street? I can't find it again or where I wrote it down. I lived on Bonita Street from birth (1949) till 2nd grade (1955). Our next door neighbors last name was Nicoles. I don't know how much longer they lived there after we moved in '55. My sister was good friends with their daughter (Nichols stepdaughter). She reminded me that the man's name was Doyle (Red) Nichols. Could it have been a relative to Earl? Two Nichols on Bonita Street? I have asked my sister to check with her friend to see if they were related to Earl and whatever else she could find out.
What was the address of Earl Nichols on Bonita Street? I can't find it again or where I wrote it down. I lived on Bonita Street from birth (1949) till 2nd grade (1955). Our next door neighbors last name was Nicoles. I don't know how much longer they lived there after we moved in '55. My sister was good friends with their daughter (Nichols stepdaughter). She reminded me that the man's name was Doyle (Red) Nichols. Could it have been a relative to Earl? Two Nichols on Bonita Street? I have asked my sister to check with her friend to see if they were related to Earl and whatever else she could find out.
farawaygirl
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Sunshine ~ What is Earl Nicole's daughter's name? Can you disclose that online?
Rogge's Grocery store was located on the corner of Mermod and Mesa Sts. from it's former location on 6th St. and was owned by Ron Rogge. My friend in C'bad told me that he knows a guy named Ronnie Rice who works in the oilfield near Carlsbad and his age is about 38, perhaps he's Ronnie Rice Jr. but he's not listed in the Carlsbad phone book.
Sunshine 1950
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Sunshine ~ What is Earl Nicole's daughter's name? Can you disclose that online?
The daughters that we are talking about (Earl Nichols daughters) are: Gladine Lane, and Katie Pinson...Pinson lived on Bonita St. Lane lived in Big Springs, Texas.
His other children were:
James Elmo
Corine G.
Lucille
J.B.
Robert Carson
John L.
Raymond Earle
Wendell Ross
Syble Lois
All of these people are deceased along with Gladine and Katie.
Thank you! Warble and Rice aren't that common of names so they are likely related and that may help in locating them. I know there was a Buddy Rice that graduated in 1964 but I don't know if he is related or not. Finding Margaret could really really help us! UnfortunatelyI used to have an old phone book from Carlsbad but I haven't been able to find it. I wonder if the library there might have those available?the census records for 1961aren't available on line yet. I don't know how to access those, does anyone know?
US Census records have a 72 yr rule of privacy, on line or otherwise. The latest records available to the public is 1930, released just a few years ago.
Sunshine 1950
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Rogge's Grocery store was located on the corner of Mermod and Mesa Sts. from it's former location on 6th St. and was owned by Ron Rogge. My friend in C'bad told me that he knows a guy named Ronnie Rice who works in the oilfield near Carlsbad and his age is about 38, perhaps he's Ronnie Rice Jr. but he's not listed in the Carlsbad phone book.
Bobbi could you find out if there was a grocery store by the name of Roses Grocery? That was the name of the store given in the rape case for DB. I can see how Rogges & Roses may have been the same store.
Sunshine 1950
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Thank You for the information Farawaygirl....I posted the names for you.It's seems like I'm the only one on here now. I came into this about a week ago and I see where it was pretty much discontinued in December. I have hope for the case, as long as people that care are still alive. Even though the killer may have gotten away in this life, he will still face eternal punishment. I also believe that finding the killer is about honoring Patty and Mattie's memory. We just cannot give up!
What was the address of Earl Nichols on Bonita Street? I can't find it again or where I wrote it down. I lived on Bonita Street from birth (1949) till 2nd grade (1955). Our next door neighbors last name was Nicoles. I don't know how much longer they lived there after we moved in '55. My sister was good friends with their daughter (Nichols stepdaughter). She reminded me that the man's name was Doyle (Red) Nichols. Could it have been a relative to Earl? Two Nichols on Bonita Street? I have asked my sister to check with her friend to see if they were related to Earl and whatever else she could find out.
Also...Please know that I will never give up on finding out who killed my sister, Mattie...and also Patty. You are correct...they will pay for there deeds when they are judged on Judgement Day.
I have actively worked on this case for over ten years now and have also lived with the horrible memory of it my whole life.... no one will ever make me stop...not the ECSO...not the State of New Mexico. These agencies will not help me...but they can't stop me. Mattie and Patty deserve JUSTICE...and someday they will have it.
Sunshine, I just called my friend who has lived in C'bad his whole life (54 yrs.) and he said he never heard of Rose's Grocery store, his family owned Crump's Grocery store many years ago. Clarence Rogge was Ron Rogge's father and worked as an insurance agent in C'bad. It doesn't surprise me one bit for the ECSO or anyone else for that matter to mispell words, purposely or otherwise.Bobbi could you find out if there was a grocery store by the name of Roses Grocery? That was the name of the store given in the rape case for DB. I can see how Rogges & Roses may have been the same store.
Changing the subject ... Oprah interviewed 4 child molesters on her show today, Feb. 8th. Everyone on this website would probably be interested in seeing it. Very informative! She said it would be run again on Oprah.com at 8:00 central time, tonight.
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