John Ramsey's New Book

Whaleshark pretty much said what I was getting at.

I accept personal beliefs and all that, each to their own.
But your previous post was flowing with faith-based statements which actually DO differ very much from the evidence based statements we all require in these threads.

If SuperDave's book included no evidence, you would say it was garbage. The Ramsey's make statements contradicting the evidence, and we poo poo them. The IDI's of the board, such as Roy, make statements and we ridicule them because it doesn't support the evidence we've all researched for the last 15 years.

All I'm suggesting is that we should perhaps leave the age regression theories and eternal atonements for the lounge rooms or seance sessions and stick with hard facts in this thread because quite frankly, I think to include such stuff demeans the work people have done to try and find the truth.
 
Let me be clear, despite my non-beliefs, I'm not attacking anyone personally here.

I am simply pointing out the importance in not undermining good websleuthing by associating it with unprovable faith.
 
Dear Mr. Ramsey,

We know who murdered your child, and so do you. You may keep trying to bury your guilt with "good works," but you'll never be able to fake your way out of this. Write a dozen books of claptrap and propaganda; that won't change the truth. The only person you're fooling is yourself.

If you'd changed AT ALL, you'd finally tell the truth and unburden all those you DEVASTATED with lies, suspicions, and malicious intent, all to keep your family from taking responsibility for the abuse and murder of JonBenet when it is yours to take.

If you had one bone of decency in your body you'd finally witness FOR YOUR DAUGHTER. That's your spiritual quest in this life, and so far, Epic Fail.

When you're dead, all anyone is going to remember is how you abandoned your abused daughter in her hour of greatest need so you could try to hang onto your money bags and fat cat image. And your children and their children and their children will live with that legacy as long as there is memory.

You carry such a debt on your soul and it will NEVER be repaid until you do right by all the people you have hurt. You can't bypass that by pretend-caring for those you owe nothing.

So take this into Eternity: there is NO GOD in a devotion to deceit, in remorseless criminal acts against others, and in being a COWARD--that's you, John. THAT'S YOU.
 
I really find it offensive that DeeDee is being told how to speak. I'm a non-believer, but I guess it's my dreaded left-wing feelings that make me want to knock heads when I seem to hear someone being stepped on and told how to think and speak because maybe their beliefs scare others.

Man up, and let others express.
 
I really find it offensive that DeeDee is being told how to speak. I'm a non-believer, but I guess it's my dreaded left-wing feelings that make me want to knock heads when I seem to hear someone being stepped on and told how to think and speak because maybe their beliefs scare others.

Man up, and let others express.

Thanks for your support. I do understand how some people feel, though. Faith is a hot-button issue, I know. I always feel that we really don't KNOW, so I'd rather believe we continue rather than just blowing out like a candle. Whatever IS, is there waiting whether you believe or not. The world would be boring if we all had the same beliefs.

Besides, I talk to dead people, so I kinda have a pretty good idea.

It is hard not to get side-tracked on the forums, especially when two of the major players in the crime are dead.
 
is there any article about JRs first daughter which died in a crash car
was for sure it was a car crash
or maybe she did comit suicide

It was a car crash. I don't think there was any question about that.
 
I really find it offensive that DeeDee is being told how to speak. I'm a non-believer, but I guess it's my dreaded left-wing feelings that make me want to knock heads when I seem to hear someone being stepped on and told how to think and speak because maybe their beliefs scare others.

Man up, and let others express.

I find it offensive that you think just because we were expressing our feelings about bringing those comments into the crime discussion, you insinuate that 'maybe her beliefs scare others', or that we are telling her how to speak. I don't recall anyone 'telling her how to speak'....
...and I'm not scared of her beliefs at all. I respect DeeDee and think it's great that she believes what she does. I like a lot of her comments and find her very insightful on this crime.

I wasn't rude, sarcastic, didn't put her down for her beliefs or anything like that either... I merely took up for the point that Wonderllama made about how that subject matter fit into the crime discussion. I think Wonderllama did the same - wasn't rude or disrespectful about her beliefs, but questioned their place in discussing the validity of the facts of the crime.

Deedee's comment -
"God has forgiven us before we even commit the sin. If you talked to the dead, you'd find that NO one judges us after we pass. We judge ourselves. AND we feel the emotions and pain we caused to others while we lived. We come to understand completely how our actions have impacted others. And it is hoped we learn from them, so we do not repeat them when we return to try again. Because we ALL come back again. Of our own free will.
So yes, Patsy has been forgiven. By God, and JB as well, but it takes longer to forgive ourselves for horrendous acts. That doesn't mean there is no atonement. There is forgiveness, yes. But you still have Karma to balance out."

Now, she can believe that all she wants, and others agree with that, and that's fine... but then if she can express her absolute beliefs about what she thinks happened to Patsy, that she is forgiven, and that this is the way it works because of her uniqe experience in talking to dead people, then can't we express how we feel about her expressing that?

Or it's just supposed to be us who are manning up? Or, because we don't believe like she does, we aren't allowed to express our opinions on the matter? Just her?
 
I find it offensive that you think just because we were expressing our feelings about bringing those comments into the crime discussion, you insinuate that 'maybe her beliefs scare others', or that we are telling her how to speak. I don't recall anyone 'telling her how to speak'....
...and I'm not scared of her beliefs at all. I respect DeeDee and think it's great that she believes what she does. I like a lot of her comments and find her very insightful on this crime.

I wasn't rude, sarcastic, didn't put her down for her beliefs or anything like that either... I merely took up for the point that Wonderllama made about how that subject matter fit into the crime discussion. I think Wonderllama did the same - wasn't rude or disrespectful about her beliefs, but questioned their place in discussing the validity of the facts of the crime.

Deedee's comment -
"God has forgiven us before we even commit the sin. If you talked to the dead, you'd find that NO one judges us after we pass. We judge ourselves. AND we feel the emotions and pain we caused to others while we lived. We come to understand completely how our actions have impacted others. And it is hoped we learn from them, so we do not repeat them when we return to try again. Because we ALL come back again. Of our own free will.
So yes, Patsy has been forgiven. By God, and JB as well, but it takes longer to forgive ourselves for horrendous acts. That doesn't mean there is no atonement. There is forgiveness, yes. But you still have Karma to balance out."

Now, she can believe that all she wants, and others agree with that, and that's fine... but then if she can express her absolute beliefs about what she thinks happened to Patsy, that she is forgiven, and that this is the way it works because of her uniqe experience in talking to dead people, then can't we express how we feel about her expressing that?

Or it's just supposed to be us who are manning up? Or, because we don't believe like she does, we aren't allowed to express our opinions on the matter? Just her?

You just proved my point.
 
SuperDave,
Interesting post, its so obvious a conspiracy took place, they even had to shut ST up along with Holly Smith and everyone else. How does that work when there is to be no trial?

Some inside BPD , the DA's office, the legal eagles along with Team Ramsey were all cooperating to bury evidence, prevent due process from being undertaken, litigating the honest BPD officers involved, in short closing the case down.

[snip]

So I think you have this one right. A one off favor can easily be covered up, but if it is a long running practise, there will be many skeletons burried along with their associated evidence, just awaiting discovery.

I agree with you and SuperDave.

It's no secret Rupert Murdoch is so rich and powerful, he controls much of the news in the Free World. He not only owns Fox News in this country, but countless newspapers, print media, radio stations, and recently bought into NBC, if memory serves. He's he's a ruthless "conservative" who has influenced many a politician here with his unlimited resources. And he's not even an American--thanks, Wubya, for deregulating ownership of our news. So that example is entirely comparable to what happened in this case.

I'm sure y'all know I think Lockheed Martin was the "fixer" in this case. That's why Hunter buried the Ramsey phone records--Hunter was probably the easiest politician to buy off ever, IMO. And for those who don't know. Lockheed Martin has many subsidiaries/companies in Colorado.

Remember Spade? He once said--and only once that I saw--the power to quash any subpoena for phone records came from Washington. It's no secret Haddon had connections that far, but to what purpose would the federal government care about this little murder on Dec. 26th?

Remember that the FBI mysteriously, inexplicably stepped down in a child kidnapping that was attributed from minute one to terrorists.

Also remember that Lockheed Martin inexplicably aborted its precise protocol for just such an incident as kidnapping in their executive levels. The man who was director of their security in Colorado (was that lawyer Norm Early?) told us that on TV many times.

Yet another mystery was how a Secret Service handwriting analyst could suddenly develop such incompetence as to miss that Patsy wrote the note. You'd have to be blind and brain damaged to miss that--but alas, we saw a media spun battle of the experts without even a trial.

I never understood exactly how this all had worked behind the scenes until I saw the movie Michael Clayton. How many times did we see Ramsey shills laugh at the discussion about the lack of a subpoena for phone records, and a key cell phone record "handed over" by the Ramseys a year later conveniently having NOT ONE CALL ON IT THE MONTH OF THE MURDER? We finally even got the transcript of Patsy lying through her teeth as fast as she could talk to Detective Haney about how that cell phone had been "lost" and blahblah. Oh, how infuriating, how TELLING, that the so-called expert detective--working for Hunter--DIDN'T FOLLOW UP WITH THE QUESTION, DID YOU OR JOHN REPORT THAT AND HAVE THE NUMBER CANCELED? To this day we do not know, nor does the BPD, according to Thomas, if there were any calls made to or from that phone AFTER the month of December, 1996. Who really can be so gullible or corrupt as to argue that wasn't important in a CHILD MURDER CASE?

So anyone who wants to argue this was all just a fluke, that it's silly to ask these questions, I'm not buying it. These are THE QUESTIONS that would have solved this case in one week--ONE WEEK--if there were phone calls from the phone that night, anytime that month, or anytime after that month--Patsy Ramsey's lies would have been clearly exposed. You don't hide phone records if there is nothing damaging on them.

And what DA is going to bury such critical evidence as this? Why?

Common people, garden variety worker bees, don't know about such things as "fixers," do we? What we do know is if our child was found with prior molestation injuries, murdered, with a ransom note obviously written by the child's mother, we'd be in prison. Fifteen years ago, I had no idea a DA in a sleepy little town would help a rich family with a child murderer in its bosom escape justice so openly. That's a naiveté I'll never have again.

Still think a conspiracy is not possible? I saw one of those true crime TV shows which related directly to this. (This was last year--nope, don't remember which show, or which crime, mainly because I've quit obsessing over this case at long last.) In that case, a subpoena for the phone records of a suspect was denied because of NATIONAL SECURITY issues, though the crime had nothing to do with anything related to the gov't.; the man simply owned a company that did business with the government, so his lawyer was able to block a subpoena of the records. It was so Ramsey. I had an Aha! moment.

Of course there is no public record of LM's involvement in anything with this case, other than John Ramsey was an executive and CEO with their company. That's the point, isn't it? But if you google Lockheed Martin, you can find that in the last century, LM was caught doing illegal business deals--Internationally, no less. One of the most powerful weapons manufacturers in the world--ever--which sells to governments all over the globe: LM has some influence--to understate it--I think.

Did John Ramsey know things LM needed kept quiet? I have no idea. But I do know that any company doesn't want the International scandal of an executive's daughter molested and murdered within her own family. It was easy enough to fix that in Boulder. All it took was a phone call, IMO.
 
I agree with you and SuperDave.

It's no secret Rupert Murdoch is so rich and powerful, he controls much of the news in the Free World. He not only owns Fox News in this country, but countless newspapers, print media, radio stations, and recently bought into NBC, if memory serves. He's he's a ruthless "conservative" who has influenced many a politician here with his unlimited resources. And he's not even an American--thanks, Wubya, for deregulating ownership of our news. So that example is entirely comparable to what happened in this case.

I'm sure y'all know I think Lockheed Martin was the "fixer" in this case. That's why Hunter buried the Ramsey phone records--Hunter was probably the easiest politician to buy off ever, IMO. And for those who don't know. Lockheed Martin has many subsidiaries/companies in Colorado.

Remember Spade? He once said--and only once that I saw--
the power to quash any subpoena for phone records came from Washington. It's no secret Haddon had connections that far, but to what purpose would the federal government care about this little murder on Dec. 26th?

Remember that the FBI mysteriously, inexplicably stepped down in a child kidnapping that was attributed from minute one to terrorists.

Also remember that Lockheed Martin inexplicably aborted its precise protocol for just such an incident as kidnapping in their executive levels. The man who was director of their security in Colorado (was that lawyer Norm Early?) told us that on TV many times.

Yet another mystery was how a Secret Service handwriting analyst could suddenly develop such incompetence as to miss that Patsy wrote the note. You'd have to be blind and brain damaged to miss that--but alas, we saw a media spun battle of the experts without even a trial.

I never understood exactly how this all had worked behind the scenes until I saw the movie Michael Clayton. How many times did we see Ramsey shills laugh at the discussion about the lack of a subpoena for phone records, and a key cell phone record "handed over" by the Ramseys a year later conveniently having NOT ONE CALL ON IT THE MONTH OF THE MURDER? We finally even got the transcript of Patsy lying through her teeth as fast as she could talk to Detective Haney about how that cell phone had been "lost" and blahblah. Oh, how infuriating, how TELLING, that the so-called expert detective--working for Hunter--DIDN'T FOLLOW UP WITH THE QUESTION, DID YOU OR JOHN REPORT THAT AND HAVE THE NUMBER CANCELED? To this day we do not know, nor does the BPD, according to Thomas, if there were any calls made to or from that phone AFTER the month of December, 1996. Who really can be so gullible or corrupt as to argue that wasn't important in a CHILD MURDER CASE?

So anyone who wants to argue this was all just a fluke, that it's silly to ask these questions, I'm not buying it. These are THE QUESTIONS that would have solved this case in one week--ONE WEEK--if there were phone calls from the phone that night, anytime that month, or anytime after that month--Patsy Ramsey's lies would have been clearly exposed. You don't hide phone records if there is nothing damaging on them.

And what DA is going to bury such critical evidence as this? Why?

Common people, garden variety worker bees, don't know about such things as "fixers," do we? What we do know is if our child was found with prior molestation injuries, murdered, with a ransom note obviously written by the child's mother, we'd be in prison. Fifteen years ago, I had no idea a DA in a sleepy little town would help a rich family with a child murderer in its bosom escape justice so openly. That's a naiveté I'll never have again.

Still think a conspiracy is not possible? I saw one of those true crime TV shows which related directly to this. (This was last year--nope, don't remember which show, or which crime, mainly because I've quit obsessing over this case at long last.) In that case, a subpoena for the phone records of a suspect was denied because of NATIONAL SECURITY issues, though the crime had nothing to do with anything related to the gov't.; the man simply owned a company that did business with the government, so his lawyer was able to block a subpoena of the records. It was so Ramsey. I had an Aha! moment.

Of course there is no public record of LM's involvement in anything with this case, other than John Ramsey was an executive and CEO with their company. That's the point, isn't it? But if you google Lockheed Martin, you can find that in the last century, LM was caught doing illegal business deals--Internationally, no less. One of the most powerful weapons manufacturers in the world--ever--which sells to governments all over the globe: LM has some influence--to understate it--I think.

Did John Ramsey know things LM needed kept quiet? I have no idea. But I do know that any company doesn't want the International scandal of an executive's daughter molested and murdered within her own family. It was easy enough to fix that in Boulder. All it took was a phone call, IMO.

KoldKase,
Still think a conspiracy is not possible? I saw one of those true crime TV shows which related directly to this. (This was last year--nope, don't remember which show, or which crime, mainly because I've quit obsessing over this case at long last.) In that case, a subpoena for the phone records of a suspect was denied because of NATIONAL SECURITY issues, though the crime had nothing to do with anything related to the gov't.; the man simply owned a company that did business with the government, so his lawyer was able to block a subpoena of the records. It was so Ramsey. I had an Aha! moment.
Yes, normal, everyday people , joe average etc. Do not think conspiracy precisely because they lack the knowledge of how it is expedited. In the corporate world the use of third parties to effect policy is the norm. Its some-times referred to as outsourcing. Thats corporate speak for not our resonsibility. So Fox News will employ Private Investigators to tail and bug Persons of Interest, and thats what they are referred to prior to becoming headline news, regardless of their status e.g. celebrity. In the passing, for those not familiar with modern journalism, its ethos is more alike that of the CIA, than that of the stereotype movie Journalist Hero seeking out the truth. Most of the compotent journalists are signed up by the security services, particularly those that do foreign field trips. Todays modern media, no names here so to avoid litigation, operate in a manner thats similar to that of E J Hoover the past head of the FBI, they use PI's to dig up the dirt using any means possible, then use it to either sell stories, or place the Person Of Interest under pressure to do the bidding of the media. This person can be anyone, politician, policeman, clergyman, celebrity etc.

If this case was ever to be resolved then I reckon it will be through the unraveling of the conspiracy. Somewhere down the line there will be irrefutable evidence that a conspiracy was undertaken, and someone will do the legwork required to break the case open. Its the one aspect of the case that has received little sunlight. Maybe evidence that there were phone calls made on the cellphone will come to light? I think once John Ramsey passes on, the floodgates will open, and all the $$ wannabes looking to make some money will be selling their story, which to date has been suppressed by potential Ramsey litigation.

Common people, garden variety worker bees, don't know about such things as "fixers," do we? What we do know is if our child was found with prior molestation injuries, murdered, with a ransom note obviously written by the child's mother, we'd be in prison. Fifteen years ago, I had no idea a DA in a sleepy little town would help a rich family with a child murderer in its bosom escape justice so openly. That's a naiveté I'll never have again.
Just about anything can be fixed. Even the politicians run shadow companies, dressed up as research or charitable entities, to effect their hidden agendas. These shadow companies recruit PI's and consultants at arms length to to the dirty work. Which might include negotiating federal contracts prior to their public tender, and agreement on cost. With the politicians reimbursement being incorporated into the consultants fee, which is then funneled through another companies account as a charge for some service rendered or simply channeled via some offshore account. Occassionally these things blow up, and its usually a hedge fund, or some kind of Ponzi scheme that needs to be closed down to make evidence vanish.

In this case it appears to be a conspiracy after the fact. Allowing Patsy's sister in to do a supermarket style removal of items from the house, is one indicator that this was no ordinary homicide. I do not think I have ever read of case where that has been sanctioned.


.
 
I agree with you and SuperDave.

It's no secret Rupert Murdoch is so rich and powerful, he controls much of the news in the Free World. He not only owns Fox News in this country, but countless newspapers, print media, radio stations, and recently bought into NBC, if memory serves. He's he's a ruthless "conservative" who has influenced many a politician here with his unlimited resources. And he's not even an American--thanks, Wubya, for deregulating ownership of our news. So that example is entirely comparable to what happened in this case.

I'm sure y'all know I think Lockheed Martin was the "fixer" in this case. That's why Hunter buried the Ramsey phone records--Hunter was probably the easiest politician to buy off ever, IMO. And for those who don't know. Lockheed Martin has many subsidiaries/companies in Colorado.

Remember Spade? He once said--and only once that I saw--the power to quash any subpoena for phone records came from Washington. It's no secret Haddon had connections that far, but to what purpose would the federal government care about this little murder on Dec. 26th?

Remember that the FBI mysteriously, inexplicably stepped down in a child kidnapping that was attributed from minute one to terrorists.

Also remember that Lockheed Martin inexplicably aborted its precise protocol for just such an incident as kidnapping in their executive levels. The man who was director of their security in Colorado (was that lawyer Norm Early?) told us that on TV many times.

Yet another mystery was how a Secret Service handwriting analyst could suddenly develop such incompetence as to miss that Patsy wrote the note. You'd have to be blind and brain damaged to miss that--but alas, we saw a media spun battle of the experts without even a trial.

I never understood exactly how this all had worked behind the scenes until I saw the movie Michael Clayton. How many times did we see Ramsey shills laugh at the discussion about the lack of a subpoena for phone records, and a key cell phone record "handed over" by the Ramseys a year later conveniently having NOT ONE CALL ON IT THE MONTH OF THE MURDER? We finally even got the transcript of Patsy lying through her teeth as fast as she could talk to Detective Haney about how that cell phone had been "lost" and blahblah. Oh, how infuriating, how TELLING, that the so-called expert detective--working for Hunter--DIDN'T FOLLOW UP WITH THE QUESTION, DID YOU OR JOHN REPORT THAT AND HAVE THE NUMBER CANCELED? To this day we do not know, nor does the BPD, according to Thomas, if there were any calls made to or from that phone AFTER the month of December, 1996. Who really can be so gullible or corrupt as to argue that wasn't important in a CHILD MURDER CASE?

So anyone who wants to argue this was all just a fluke, that it's silly to ask these questions, I'm not buying it. These are THE QUESTIONS that would have solved this case in one week--ONE WEEK--if there were phone calls from the phone that night, anytime that month, or anytime after that month--Patsy Ramsey's lies would have been clearly exposed. You don't hide phone records if there is nothing damaging on them.

And what DA is going to bury such critical evidence as this? Why?

Common people, garden variety worker bees, don't know about such things as "fixers," do we? What we do know is if our child was found with prior molestation injuries, murdered, with a ransom note obviously written by the child's mother, we'd be in prison. Fifteen years ago, I had no idea a DA in a sleepy little town would help a rich family with a child murderer in its bosom escape justice so openly. That's a naiveté I'll never have again.

Still think a conspiracy is not possible? I saw one of those true crime TV shows which related directly to this. (This was last year--nope, don't remember which show, or which crime, mainly because I've quit obsessing over this case at long last.) In that case, a subpoena for the phone records of a suspect was denied because of NATIONAL SECURITY issues, though the crime had nothing to do with anything related to the gov't.; the man simply owned a company that did business with the government, so his lawyer was able to block a subpoena of the records. It was so Ramsey. I had an Aha! moment.

Of course there is no public record of LM's involvement in anything with this case, other than John Ramsey was an executive and CEO with their company. That's the point, isn't it? But if you google Lockheed Martin, you can find that in the last century, LM was caught doing illegal business deals--Internationally, no less. One of the most powerful weapons manufacturers in the world--ever--which sells to governments all over the globe: LM has some influence--to understate it--I think.

Did John Ramsey know things LM needed kept quiet? I have no idea. But I do know that any company doesn't want the International scandal of an executive's daughter molested and murdered within her own family. It was easy enough to fix that in Boulder. All it took was a phone call, IMO.

If this case hadn't been picked up by the media, do you think Lockheed Martin would've cared if the case was solved or not?
 
Thanks for your support. I do understand how some people feel, though. Faith is a hot-button issue, I know. I always feel that we really don't KNOW, so I'd rather believe we continue rather than just blowing out like a candle. Whatever IS, is there waiting whether you believe or not. The world would be boring if we all had the same beliefs.

Besides, I talk to dead people, so I kinda have a pretty good idea.

It is hard not to get side-tracked on the forums, especially when two of the major players in the crime are dead.

DeeDee, I know you're able to cope with the opposite side of the fence with regards to your faith. That alone makes you a rare case and my hat goes off to you.

If would probably be remiss of me to ask if you have ever spoken to anyone in the Ramsey family from the other side?

You know that my beliefs will automatically make me suspect you will answer with "that's not how it works" or "they're not ready", but for the benefit of everyone else, I'm genuinely interested in the answer.

And as for Alix's reponse...your post suggests to me that you may have misread my post. I recommend rereading it and taking a chill pill :)
 
KoldKase,

Yes, normal, everyday people , joe average etc. Do not think conspiracy precisely because they lack the knowledge of how it is expedited. In the corporate world the use of third parties to effect policy is the norm. Its some-times referred to as outsourcing. Thats corporate speak for not our resonsibility. So Fox News will employ Private Investigators to tail and bug Persons of Interest, and thats what they are referred to prior to becoming headline news, regardless of their status e.g. celebrity. In the passing, for those not familiar with modern journalism, its ethos is more alike that of the CIA, than that of the stereotype movie Journalist Hero seeking out the truth. Most of the compotent journalists are signed up by the security services, particularly those that do foreign field trips. Todays modern media, no names here so to avoid litigation, operate in a manner thats similar to that of E J Hoover the past head of the FBI, they use PI's to dig up the dirt using any means possible, then use it to either sell stories, or place the Person Of Interest under pressure to do the bidding of the media. This person can be anyone, politician, policeman, clergyman, celebrity etc.

If this case was ever to be resolved then I reckon it will be through the unraveling of the conspiracy. Somewhere down the line there will be irrefutable evidence that a conspiracy was undertaken, and someone will do the legwork required to break the case open. Its the one aspect of the case that has received little sunlight. Maybe evidence that there were phone calls made on the cellphone will come to light? I think once John Ramsey passes on, the floodgates will open, and all the $$ wannabes looking to make some money will be selling their story, which to date has been suppressed by potential Ramsey litigation.


Just about anything can be fixed. Even the politicians run shadow companies, dressed up as research or charitable entities, to effect their hidden agendas. These shadow companies recruit PI's and consultants at arms length to to the dirty work. Which might include negotiating federal contracts prior to their public tender, and agreement on cost. With the politicians reimbursement being incorporated into the consultants fee, which is then funneled through another companies account as a charge for some service rendered or simply channeled via some offshore account. Occassionally these things blow up, and its usually a hedge fund, or some kind of Ponzi scheme that needs to be closed down to make evidence vanish.

In this case it appears to be a conspiracy after the fact. Allowing Patsy's sister in to do a supermarket style removal of items from the house, is one indicator that this was no ordinary homicide. I do not think I have ever read of case where that has been sanctioned.


.

That's the thing: it's so obvious; it was so obvious that something horribly wrong was going on with the investigation. D.A. Hunter, UP FRONT, was handing THE EVIDENCE REPORTS to the Ramsey lawyers, including a copy of the ransom note given to them in JANUARY, within a month of the murder. It wasn't until Hunter finally killed the grand jury investigation that Thomas was unleashed and his book appeared in book stores, telling the public exactly what went wrong with this case.

Oh, how Hunter and the Ramseys hated Thomas. He actually threw open the door on their little conspiracy. He didn't have all the pieces, or if he did, no doubt his publisher wouldn't include the most damaging stuff. To this day, saying his name is like throwing water on the Wicked Witch of Oz. (I love that about him.)

What you say about our politicians is spot on; they're all in it for the money they can make after they finish voting on laws and policies to benefit their financial backers and themselves, which is a done deal once they're elected. Anyone who wants to know how our economy got so wrecked only needs to look at the wholesale deregulation of the banking industry at the beginning of this century: let the greedy "regulate" themselves, because we know they'll do a good job, right? lol And if they don't, we'll just write out blank checks for them, call it a bail out, and let the taxpayers pick up the bill--DOUBLE DIPPING! Corruption in this country, much like in the Ramsey case, is an open secret.

But I digress. To the point, you're right about the only chance of the truth coming out being someone who has that evidence finally stepping forward to show us. Those phone records may still be in the evidence room, in fact; because they were allegedly collected illegally by a PI--ha, just like you said--who was going to sell them to a tabloid. Alas, that's one case the BPD solved faster than you can say Gotcha! The "evidence" was collected--the phone bills--and walked past Thomas, who wrote about it in his book; he was told flat out he'd never see them. What more did he need to know about his attempt to actually investigate this case to conclude the BPD was a beard for the Ramsey's true lawyer, Alex Hunter?

Yes, "Crazy Aunt Pam," as Peter Boyles calls her, certainly had carte blanche evidence collecting, didn't she? Wearing a police jacket, complete with a complimentary Happy Meal--it's like a Coen Brothers film isn't it?
 
If this case hadn't been picked up by the media, do you think Lockheed Martin would've cared if the case was solved or not?

I think it was simply a given that the case would be picked up by the media. To what extent, I don't believe anyone was able to predict on that night/day. I also don't believe they had any idea how much notoriety this murder would get from the Internet; it wasn't yet a system of communication for the general public, as common now as television. Who could have imagined Websleuths and FFJ, now more than a decade old, much less MILLIONS OF THEM? :what:

You can do the research yourself, though, don't take my word for it: any large company is loathe to have an executive involved in some huge public scandal--and it doesn't get any messier than a molested, murdered six year old in your basement. Even John Ramsey found his "billion dollar company" sold (to G.E., I think) and himself ousted within the year; no doubt with the standard "golden parachute"--meaning millions in cash and stock--landing in some Cayman Island bank account. Remember John and Patsy took a little "vacation" to the Bahamas within the year after the murder. I remember the tabloid photo of Patsy in the pool because it seemed odd that instead of helping LE find her child's killer, she was avoiding them like the Red Death and chilling at a resort.

There was a news article, way back, maybe in the first year after the murder, that reported that John Ramsey had refused to take a polygraph which had been requested by Lockheed Martin. Odd, isn't it, that LM would ask, or that this would be reported? Maybe it was some kind of stipulation G.E. demanded before the sale? It appeared to be "a reason" offered as to why John was ousted, but changing administration is not uncommon when companies are sold, though we beer can collectors are rather out of the loop on these kinds of deals, and even moreso in 1996. It seems like it would have been big news, but it died as quickly as that one report.

We now have good evidence that the Ramseys did take a polygraph for their lawyers early on, not the one they "went public" with under Lin Wood's spin machine, but when their lawyers were with Haddon's firm. They were asked about taking a polygraph in a media interview and were very dodgy about it, both Patsy and John, saying that is "privileged" between them and their lawyers. HAHA! Um, I might be simple but I wasn't born yesterday: it's YOUR privilege to give, and WE KNOW THAT, BEOTCHES. (Ooops. Was that not respectful, Tricia? :waitasec:)

It's my belief that Lockheed Martin helped bury this case, with all their power and influence, because they'd do that for any scandal involving one of their own. I can't prove it, but Alex Hunter's actions, the "blank" phone record--that was no accident, and anyone who thinks it's just some coincidence and means nothing in a child murder case like this is as naive as I once was.
 
I have this book on order , looking forward to reading it.
 
DeeDee, I know you're able to cope with the opposite side of the fence with regards to your faith. That alone makes you a rare case and my hat goes off to you.

If would probably be remiss of me to ask if you have ever spoken to anyone in the Ramsey family from the other side?

You know that my beliefs will automatically make me suspect you will answer with "that's not how it works" or "they're not ready", but for the benefit of everyone else, I'm genuinely interested in the answer.


PM me here. We can discuss it better off the forum.
 
I think Lockheed would have buried the case even if it had not had the national media attention it got. A scandal is a scandal. It wasn't just Lockheed. The defense attorneys and their firm were very politically powerful as well.

Just this past weekend I watched the DVD of Schiller's "Perfect Murder, Perfect Town" again, but with the Director's Commentary turned ON. I'd seen this movie several times, because I own a copy, but hadn't listened to the comments from Schiller in a while. It was very enlightening. In the very beginning he mentions that right at the outset, a main roadblock to justice in the case was the unique situation in Boulder LE of having a very liberal ex-hippie as a DA and a very conservative police department. Right off the bat their approaches to crime and criminals in particular came from opposite ideologies. Schiller's book and movie are fairly neutral, but he plainly feels the famlies' actions were not the actions of innocent people. He also comments that right from the start, the R's defense team defended them as guilty clients, not as innocent people being framed. I agree. All I have to do is read the interviews with the Rs, especially Patsy. I can tell more from what LW does NOT allow Patsy to answer than from what she says. In many cases he does not even allow certain questions to be asked. Or he jumps right in with diversionary comments. LE, in sometimes perplexing laxity and sloppiness, allows themselves to be distracted and led off topic. Then, when the interview resumes, they fail to go back to that topic so that it is addressed properly. LE dropped so many balls.
 
I think Lockheed would have buried the case even if it had not had the national media attention it got. A scandal is a scandal. It wasn't just Lockheed. The defense attorneys and their firm were very politically powerful as well.

Just this past weekend I watched the DVD of Schiller's "Perfect Murder, Perfect Town" again, but with the Director's Commentary turned ON. I'd seen this movie several times, because I own a copy, but hadn't listened to the comments from Schiller in a while. It was very enlightening. In the very beginning he mentions that right at the outset, a main roadblock to justice in the case was the unique situation in Boulder LE of having a very liberal ex-hippie as a DA and a very conservative police department. Right off the bat their approaches to crime and criminals in particular came from opposite ideologies. Schiller's book and movie are fairly neutral, but he plainly feels the famlies' actions were not the actions of innocent people. He also comments that right from the start, the R's defense team defended them as guilty clients, not as innocent people being framed. I agree. All I have to do is read the interviews with the Rs, especially Patsy. I can tell more from what LW does NOT allow Patsy to answer than from what she says. In many cases he does not even allow certain questions to be asked. Or he jumps right in with diversionary comments. LE, in sometimes perplexing laxity and sloppiness, allows themselves to be distracted and led off topic. Then, when the interview resumes, they fail to go back to that topic so that it is addressed properly. LE dropped so many balls.

So true, DeeDee. There were so many obvious questions, including follow-up questions, that never got asked or never were answered when the Ramseys were interviewed. Of course, the Ramseys never would have answered truthfully anyway, but simply asking and having that on record would have been important.

Hunter and Lacy were the biggest obstacles to solving this case, IMO. I think both of them were guilty of dereliction of duty, of obstruction of the investigation, and without question of destroying the case completely for all time.

Lin Wood was always "cuing" John and Patsy when the questions were damaging to them or when their answers were clearly incriminating. Wood earned his money from the Ramseys, I'll give him that.
 

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