Amanda Knox tried for the murder of Meredith Kercher in Italy *NEW TRIAL*#5

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Yellow said:
AK might have been dumb, but RS surely would know that the DNA would eventually lead back to RG, either bc he is in the system or his name would have been brought up at some point being a local it seems who does not flush toilets. They would have interviewed all the boys downstairs friends and would have asked for DNA or prints or people they know. Also he was known to do these things so it would have led to RG at some point.

I guess the prints and bloody palm print were in MKs DNA so unless they had RGs shoes they would not have been able to connect him to the prints. But surely, if there was some sexual attempt made, at least RS would have known they would find RG eventually through DNA.

Still, I don't think AK is that smart to be so forward thinking. If you commit a spontaneous murder, I imagine you are on a high of sorts, that is why so many murderers do stupid things like RG forgetting to go back and flush the toilet.

Thing is, why wouldn't AK eliminated all evidence of RG too? Why not flush the toilet,,not even mention the mess? Sure, maybe the absence of all DNA would have put suspicion on her but DNA would have led them to RG and he would say it was her anyway.

I would think they would have wanted to clean the whole place, make it a real mystery and pin it on PL who they could not prove did it

Why point the evidence right to the co murderer? You would eliminate it.
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Yellow, I just tried to explain my opinion of those points in my post. Why they didn't clean the whole place. Why they didn't want it to be a "mystery." Why they didn't get rid of RG evidence too. Why she pinned it on PL instead of RG, when she did? What their thinking was. And why they were prepared for their excuse for RG if it ever came to that point. Did you read my entire post?
 
otto said:
Is it possible to post the picture here? I don't remember seeing it.

Knox and Sollecito couldn't have thought it was merely a burglary. Why would they try to break down Meredith's door if they though it was a burglary ... and Sollecito told police over the phone that nothing was stolen?

By her actions, Knox did not think that this was a burglary. She saw the broken window, the wide open door, nothing missing, she saw Meredith's locked door, the blood in the bathroom and delayed notifying authorities for almost two and a half hours. Instead of notifying authorities, she made a forgettable phone call to her mother, who was so concerned about that call that she could not forget it ... and asked her daughter about it on November 10, eight days later. Her daughter had forgotten all about it, but clearly it disturbed her mother.
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They are on the injustice in Perigua site, under footprints, I am not sure how to link on ipad.

I think the others thought it was a burglary. I also think AK and RS thought that too. No one knew where MK was, and they knew MK slept at the house. It would be natural to knock down the door if you thought a burglary occurred. Moreover, was it common for MK to lock her door? Maybe it was not.

Sometimes on a cell phone you can accidentally call people, like you may go to the message thinking you are just hearing the message but then it calls the person. Her call to her mother could have been that. Besides, the call was very short, just enough to say, hey, I did not realize it was so late in Seattle. I will call you back tomorrow.

If the call was nefarious wouldn't it have lasted more than 88 seconds? What did she say, mom, I committed murder,,help me, and hang up? No, there would have been a longer conversation.
 
aa9511 said:
Aggghhh....isn't that the exact spot Jodi Arias cut her finger when the knife slipped during Travis' murder (which she denies, of course)? I believe hers was in the same exact spot....creepy.

The picture is grainy but it definately looks like some cut there. Also the tips of his fingers look worn-away like from gripping a knife very tightly. I don't know, maybe that's just my imagination.

Thanks for that.

So that just, IMO, erases the whole "no Amanda and RS DNA found in the murder room" theory of their innocence. Because Rudy getting cut would have clearly had more of his DNA than what was actually found. Cut means blood, blood means DNA. And no, he wouldn't have just dripped in one area (on her purse). It would have kept dripping until it stopped itself. And no, he wouldn't have stopped, gone somewhere, got a plaster and put it on his finger, and then come back to finish up.

And yet, such little, relatively, of Rudy's DNA was actually found. Even with his cut finger. And there was no washing of the floors with water, like with the Jodi Arias case. His DNA would have been there. But it wasn't found.

Same, IMO, happened with RS and Amanda. Not cut, but there was probably a lot more evidence of them in that murder room, which wasn't found. Just like with Rudy. Doesn't mean they weren't in there.
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If the cuts are on the fingers and not the palm, would that mean that the person stabbing has thumb on top. Was Knox's DNA found on the top or the bottom of the knife? That is, was it found on the flat edge or the blade?
 
otto said:
How do we know that it was Guede's palm print on the pillow case?

The prosecutor mentioned something about the haplotype (sp?), that a Y was good enough for Guede, why isn't it good enough for Sollecito? Is anyone that understands DNA able to put this in layman's terms?

Maybe everything was tested and in total did not yield more than four results.

Can't have it both ways. Either everything was tested, and Knox is no where, Sollecito is in one place, Guede is in three places, or not enough was tested so it's not surprising that such little DNA was found.
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I do not think it is contested that it is RG, it matches his palm.

It is not inconsistent to say both arguments, if they only found 4, that proves their factual innocence IMO. If they did not test everything that leaves doubt on whether they did it but doubt is enough to get them off.
 
aa9511 said:
Yellow, I just tried to explain my opinion of those points in my post. Why they didn't clean the whole place. Why they didn't want it to be a "mystery." Why they didn't get rid of RG evidence too. Why she pinned it on PL instead of RG, when she did? What their thinking was. And why they were prepared for their excuse for RG if it ever came to that point. Did you read my entire post?
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Knox knew that her mother was arriving the following morning and she probably expected the US embassy cavalry to rescue her from follies that befell, accidentally, when she was flashbacking and imagining. I think that she fully expected to be on her way to Germany by noon on November 6.

It's not that the cottage was cleaned, it was staged. That is what the prosecution has always said. Between the broken window, the footprint trail that begins and ends half onto the bath mat, and the moved body covered with a duvit, the scene is staged.
 
aa9511 said:
Yellow, I just tried to explain my opinion of those points in my post. Why they didn't clean the whole place. Why they didn't want it to be a "mystery." Why they didn't get rid of RG evidence too. Why she pinned it on PL instead of RG, when she did? What their thinking was. And why they were prepared for their excuse for RG if it ever came to that point. Did you read my entire post?
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I read the whole post, I still had the same questions bc I don't think RS would be so dumb so as to not know that they would quickly find out about RG by leaving DNA evidence around,

Why not do what you propose in the first para and make it a mystery? Sure, it would have put more on them, but so would the alternative scenario- leaving RG DNA. Either way they are going to be brought into it. I guess it could be they knew RG had no way out bc of the sex assault but still, I think the natural instinct in a Murder is to just clean everything, maybe it was the case they did not have time.

I just do not think they would have planned out scenarios in their minds, this murder would not have been preplanned. Why leave so much dirtiness like bathmat, etc?

If she knew RG DNA was all over why get PL involved at all? Just to buy time? But time for what? They knew by leaving that DNA RG would be brought into this and it would be their word against his,

I do think RG being involved helps AK case. It brings reasonable doubt whereas if this was still a mystery w no perp, alot more people would suspect them. Anyway, if she did it, maybe that is why, I just do not think she is that smart to think all these things through in the high of just murdering someone,
 
Yellow said:
I do not think it is contested that it is RG, it matches his palm.

It is not inconsistent to say both arguments, if they only found 4, that proves their factual innocence IMO. If they did not test everything that leaves doubt on whether they did it but doubt is enough to get them off.
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Thanks. So it's like a finger print, but it's a palm print. So Guede's palm print has been connected to the pillow case. The shoe print has been connected to Knox's shoe size. Were they both there, or was it Guede and someone else with the same shoe size as Knox?

Four DNA evidence items connect the culprits to the victim's bedroom.

  • single sample of Guede due to sexual assault
  • single sample of Sollecito on Meredith's bra
  • single sample of Guede on Meredith's shirt
  • single sample of Guede on Meredith's bag.

Four samples of DNA does not usually mean that DNA should be dismissed. It usually means that they got lucky, found four samples and now can look for justice for the murder of Meredith Kercher. Most murders are lucky if there is one DNA sample, yet in this case, the room is expected to be raining DNA?

There's also a complete absence of Knox DNA on her possessions in Meredith's bedroom ... this is what Knox has said in her defense. There is oodles of DNA from Guede and no DNA from Knox, so she must be innocent, but that isn't entirely true. There are three Guede samples, one Sollecito sample, prints belonging to all three if we include the bathmat and more evidence in the hallway, living room, large bathroom and Filomina's bedroom. Evidence of Guede is no more or less than evidence against Knox and Sollecito.
 
Rudy's bloody footprints going out of the room to the door are all the more importantly bc where did AK and RS footprints go? They could not have been cleaned, there is no evidence of bleach in the murder room and they would have had to step in blood in the murder room. The luminol prints could have been bleach but the problem there is that there is no Mk DNA there unless the bleach killed it. In any event it could be one or the others:either blood but not match MK DNA or bleach but no blood. Bleach would have killed the DNA but not the blood yet the more sensitive test that was better than luminol tested negative for blood. An alternative 3rd situation is the bleach stuff from the shower i mentioned which is defense argument.
 
Yellow said:
They are on the injustice in Perigua site, under footprints, I am not sure how to link on ipad.

I think the others thought it was a burglary. I also think AK and RS thought that too. No one knew where MK was, and they knew MK slept at the house. It would be natural to knock down the door if you thought a burglary occurred. Moreover, was it common for MK to lock her door? Maybe it was not.

Sometimes on a cell phone you can accidentally call people, like you may go to the message thinking you are just hearing the message but then it calls the person. Her call to her mother could have been that. Besides, the call was very short, just enough to say, hey, I did not realize it was so late in Seattle. I will call you back tomorrow.

If the call was nefarious wouldn't it have lasted more than 88 seconds? What did she say, mom, I committed murder,,help me, and hang up? No, there would have been a longer conversation.
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Thanks. If you have a chance to link the picture of the bloody footprint on the floor and in the hallway, I would appreciate it.

Knox and Sollecito could not have thought that it was a burglary if they phoned the police and said that nothing was stolen. That is what Sollecito did.

Knox spoke to her mother for 88 seconds. That is not that short, not so short that her mother forgot the call. Her mother brought up the call eight days later for some reason. Clealy something about the call did not resonate properly.
 
Yellow said:
Rudy's bloody footprints going out of the room to the door are all the more importantly bc where did AK and RS footprints go? They could not have been cleaned, there is no evidence of bleach in the murder room and they would have had to step in blood in the murder room. The luminol prints could have been bleach but the problem there is that there is no Mk DNA there unless the bleach killed it. In any event it could be one or the others:either blood but not match MK DNA or bleach but no blood. Bleach would have killed the DNA but not the blood yet the more sensitive test that was better than luminol tested negative for blood. An alternative 3rd situation is the bleach stuff from the shower i mentioned which is defense argument.
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How does the defense account for bleach, used to clean a shower, still staining feet after at least two showers were taken at the cottage. It's likely that Knox and Meredith also showered before going out for Halloween, so if the shower was cleaned on October 31, at least four showers were taken between then and November 2, when Knox could have stained her feet with cleaning residue that was revealed with luminol. It sounds very unlikely ... that bleach cleaning residue was staining feet after four showers had been taken, all of which would have included non-bleach cleaning products.

Why wasn't there the same evidence of Meredith?
 
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