AZ - Isabel Mercedes Celis, 6, Tucson, 20 April 2012 - # 7

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I don't think it would make a difference if the parents spoke to the media again. But you think they would want to speak out to whoever has Isa. JMO

Tara McDonald mother of Victoria Stafford made media come to her house everyday. Turned out many people blamed her for her daughters disappearance. When she had nothing to do with it. Even though she was being blamed she still came out to media to keep things going in the public eye.
 
I've been following along as best I can to WS and this story over the last week...here's a question for those of you with experience following these cases:

Putting aside dogs and other house specific details...is it possible for one of the neighbor hood folks, RSO or NOT, to have gotten Isa into their house in the neighborhood and POLICE dogs NOT be able to pick up HER scent?

I ask this because of the mystery person hiding in the video. The more I watch that video, I can't help but have the feeling we are looking at the perp....
 
I just wish we knew if there was any evidence of a ransom note or demands. It just doesn't make sense for the dad to reference that sort of thing out of the blue.

I honestly believe the parents have some involvement in this. If a ransom note really was found, it could be a big red herring set up by the family...

Or if I am wrong, and Isa was kidnapped, a ransom note might indicate some sort of retaliatory thing, like drug debt (yes I KNOW the parents have no history of drug dealing, but since dad threw this "demands" thing out there, it's open for speculation IMO)

And finally, if this really IS the work of some sexual predator, and there really WAS a note left or demand made, then the perp would have done so in an attempt to throw off LE, and that doesn't seem very likely, IMHO.

Of course, there probably is no note or demand anyway, which makes dad's comments about that even hinkier.

Just trying to sort this out.....


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I suppose this just shows that individuals have different perceptions when hearing the same thing.

I dont think Sergio has a clue who took his daughter from them or why, but I do understand perfectly that he would hope, and pray, that the kidnapper would be listening to their pleas for Isa's safe return, and grow a heart.

Imo, he was doing nothing more than trying to reason with the kidnapper. Telling him if this is about money the family is willing to meet his demands if he will just contact them and let them know what it is the kidnapper wants.

IMO, this is nothing more than a desperate plea by a grieving father who wants to believe with all his heart and soul that there may be a chance to have Isa return home alive.

It is far better that Siergo clings to this belief than to look at the brutal truth and that is most children abducted like this are not kidnapped for ransom. They are kidnapped to satisfied the perverted lust of a pedophile who has no heart for his victim nor the pleas their family makes.

IMO
 
[QUOTE=marazul;7849876]Hello, everyone. Thanks for all the great visuals. I joined WS during the Jorelys Rivera case because I am very local to that, and this case has had my attention, but I didn't want to reply until I read all the threads so I can enter caught - up.

I have a few cents to throw in.
I notice that in many replies, we are saying things like "I think it was someone known to the family because they knew the dogs wouldn't bark", and that, IMO, is not at all proven. For example, maybe the perp had no idea if the Celis family had dogs or not, and took the chance. Maybe everyone on that road knows the dogs bark at every passerby and passing bar patron and squirrel or cat passing every night, so they assumed one more barking episode at night wouldn't wake the family in panic. Maybe they had witnessed the dogs roaming the neighborhood and knew that even though they bark, they are stranger-friendly. I haven't heard anyone say directly, "the dogs always bark at noise at night and this night there was zero barking." we just don't know.

The uncle is not hinky to me. Does he seem a little Kato-like, sporty, maybe immature? Umm yes. But he also seems well socialized, friends of both sexes (per fb), laid back, not apparently into creepy stuff (Shawn Adkins type)..sometimes the goofy, fun uncle really is just the goofy fun uncle. Also, the family does not seem the type to allow unsavory characters too close, they seem responsible with their careers, they seem like involved parents, not likely to let the man stay so close if they didn't trust him, and I have seen no reason to doubt their judgement. On IS vs. WAS, IMO if someone says, for example, "she was always playing, friendly to everyone..." vs. "is always playing..."that doesn't mean they didn't say IS because now she's dead, it means they didn't say IS because now she's missing or kidnapped or GONE.

Last quick thing.. As a bluish eyed, medium brown haired Cuban American, I get mistaken for "gringa" all day, every day. Highly annoying. Latinos come in all colors, from the lightest person you can imagine, to the darkest. Latinos are mistaken for caucasian and African American all the time. We don't know his race, and with multiple marriages, step families, etc, a last name doesn't give it away.if you separate his last name into 2, you get a Hispanic last name, anyways. There are so many interracial families that I automatically get defensive when there is an feeling of someone "not belonging" to a family because his or her skin doesn't match.

In these cases, we root for the parents, we want them cleared, at the same time, if it was an inside job, we will feel just a little safer knowing that it wasn't a random window kidnapper...I just don't see any kind of good ending but miracles happen.[/QUOTE]

Hi marazul and welcome!
BBM This is a little O/T but I read it in so many of the threads when there are Hispanics that I feel I have to get one thing straight. Latinos ARE Caucasian! I am Spanish/American on fathers side and Mexican/American on my mothers side and my birth certificate says "white". In the later 50's they changed the birth certificates to read Caucasian. Sorry, but like you I get highly defensive too.
 
I just wish we knew if there was any evidence of a ransom note or demands. It just doesn't make sense for the dad to reference that sort of thing out of the blue.

I honestly believe the parents have some involvement in this. If a ransom note really was found, it could be a big red herring set up by the family...

Or if I am wrong, and Isa was kidnapped, a ransom note might indicate some sort of retaliatory thing, like drug debt (yes I KNOW the parents have no history of drug dealing, but since dad threw this "demands" thing out there, it's open for speculation IMO)

And finally, if this really IS the work of some sexual predator, and there really WAS a note left or demand made, then the perp would have done so in an attempt to throw off LE, and that doesn't seem very likely, IMHO.

Of course, there probably is no note or demand anyway, which makes dad's comments about that even hinkier.

Just trying to sort this out.....


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Doubt if there was a note...MOO I think that Isabel's dad was being rhetorical when he said " tell us your demands " ? It could be his way of saying to a potential kidnapper that the family is willing to do whatever the kidnapper wants to get Isabel back. MOO

On that Saturday morning Isabel's brother did go to storekeepers and he said that Isabel had been kidnapped. Presumably his father told him that ?

The whole kidnapping," tell us your demands " thing is quite dramatic. MOO The family does not seem wealthy ? And they don't live in a mansion ? And I agree,there is NO indication on the surface of drug involvement. Just baffling to think a kidnapper would target them ..MOO
 
It is true, these types of predators do not have the same boundaries you or I would. They live in a different world. What I wonder is why it seems to happen so much more in the US than in Europe. Is it less reported? This should give everyone a pause for thought. I thought about this a lot yesterday. I live in Hamburg, Germany, transplant from San Diego. I had to have my washing machine fixed yesterday and this guy was in my house with my 4 year old and I for a good part of the morning. He was friendly, he knows somewhat my story of how I ended up here and I wasn't at all thinking this guy would come back or accost me or anything. My daughter goes to the bathroom alone in a restaurant (within reason) and I do not worry about it and I remember the paranoid world I lived in there. There are reasons I don't care for living here but when I think about my daughter, I have to wonder if I would take her back there when she's small.

Your comments are welcome. I can take it!:truce:

Well I live in the UK so I can only talk about the UK. I don't see many kidnapping here but our population is tiny in comparison to the US. The most common ones involving children are when they are nabbed off the street (we had an attempted abduction 5mins from my house last week - guy tried to pull an 8yr old boy into his car). Scary.

I'm not bashing you but I'd never let my daughters go to the bathroom alone in a restaurant. We had a horrible case of 2 little boys being followed into the mens room in McDonalds where a guy did horrible things to them. The kids were too scared to tell the parents and it was a few days before they told what happened. Think that was London.

IMO we have just as many predators in the UK and Europe as there is in the US.
 
If we are gong to think that there is a ransom note. This could be the reason why the family has not returned home or come on camera but only once. They seem to be in hiding and i know they are working with police (they have to talk to them when they knock on the door)but someone who is wanting ransom wouldn't want the family back in the home for bug/tapping phone etc reasons. So i guess it could be possible someone wants ransom.
 
I really think that if the family had any involvement with any drug cartel, LE would know that, they would have already been on their radar. I could be wrong but here the cops keep a pretty close eye on anyone who associates with any dealers.

I think someone who knew the family wanted her and took her. I would like to know exactly who was staying at that house.

Do we know FOR SURE who put her to bed? I've seen different stories, and also that LE won't comment on it?
 
If we are gong to think that there is a ransom note. This could be the reason why the family has not returned home or come on camera but only once. They seem to be in hiding and i know they are working with police (they have to talk to them when they knock on the door)but someone who is wanting ransom wouldn't want the family back in the home for bug/tapping phone etc reasons. So i guess it could be possible someone wants ransom.

I really wish I felt the perp did want money for Isa's safe return, but I must be honest, I dont, and I dont think there has been any contact for a ransom demand made.

If that was the case the family would have met the demands one way or the other even if they had to go to family and friends to raise the money.

I know Serigo wants to believe he can make a deal with the 'devil' and get his daughter back home alive but after this amount of days has elapsed it is not going to end like Isa's family prays it will, imo.

IMO
 
I suppose Sergio's reference to demands may have been just a father's desperation, but when I heard that, my head snapped up and I had to rewind over and over to listen again.

It just seemed to stick out in an awkward, WTH? kind of way and along with some other things, added to my suspicions. Again, just trying to chew over any- and everything in an effort to piece this together.

I hope we have some concrete answers very soon!


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I think this is a language thing. The Spanish version of 'tell us your demands" is more heard as " tell us what you want", while in English it seems like almost "name your price". If he thinks in Spanish, and if he thinks anything at all like I think, he is meaning " tell us what you want from us, money, for us to meet you on the corner of so and so, just tell us what you want us to do because we will do anything anything anything"

I thought the same thing about the language barrier. Obviously, he speaks English fluently, but his first language is Spanish. I hear a lot of mistakes in people who mainly speak Spanish, but also speak English. I have one guy that comes in my store and asks for Marlboro Light "normal", when he means Marlboro Light short. I also know a lot of bilingual people who say "Give me that one better.", in place of "Give me that one instead."

Anyway, I don't take his statement as any kind of knowledge or acknowledgement of ransom. JMO
 
If one were from Mexico - why not kidnap a child in Mexico?
Why cross the border into the US and have to cross back into Mexico with a child in tow?

Seriously asking because I don't know.
Are there reasons?

ETA: Other than drugs/dealing and money.
I see no evidence of drugs/dealing and I see no evidence that this family is
"well to do" enough to warrant a kidnapping for $.
 
I remember years ago, a man broke into my sister's best friends bedroom window in the middle of the night and tried to attack her. She was nine. He was not known to the family but had been watching her. Luckily her screaming woke up her dad and he was able to hold him until LE arrived.
Very scary. And I almost forgot, they had a German Shepard.

Your friend was very lucky she screamed, and dad came running. So often it seems the kids are paralyzed by fear and threats, they do what the perp tells them. But this is another example of predators going after what they want, risky or not. And that imo is what happened to Isa.
 
If one were from Mexico - why not kidnap a child in Mexico?
Why cross the border into the US and have to cross back into Mexico with a child in tow?

Seriously asking because I don't know.
Are there reasons?

They may do this to keep heat off them in Mexico. Look at all the searches in Tuscon. If this is a pedo ring (hate to think that) They would not want police searches all over Mexico the way they are in Tuscon.

Ohh i sure hope LE find her. This is not looking good at all. JMO
 
Your friend was very lucky she screamed, and dad came running. So often it seems the kids are paralyzed by fear and threats, they do what the perp tells them. But this is another example of predators going after what they want, risky or not. And that imo is what happened to Isa.

She was very lucky. Another thing, it was never reported in the news.
 
Well I live in the UK so I can only talk about the UK. I don't see many kidnapping here but our population is tiny in comparison to the US. The most common ones involving children are when they are nabbed off the street (we had an attempted abduction 5mins from my house last week - guy tried to pull an 8yr old boy into his car). Scary.

I'm not bashing you but I'd never let my daughters go to the bathroom alone in a restaurant. We had a horrible case of 2 little boys being followed into the mens room in McDonalds where a guy did horrible things to them. The kids were too scared to tell the parents and it was about 3months before they told what happened. Think that was London.

IMO we have just as many predators in the UK and Europe as there is in the US.

I think the big difference is that on this side of the pond, we have horribly sensationalized news reporting, and on the European side of the pond, it is much less so, or it is in the tabloids which everyone recognizes as trash reporting.. Here ALL of MSM has become very tabloid-esque.

When I was young (late 60's through the 70's), I grew up in NYC. Kids rode the subways as preteens, alone, to get to high school. I walked to my elementary school, about 1/2 mile or so, alone, through the streets, from the age of 8 or 9. It was how things were done then. People I grew up with are all paranoid about their kids and won't even let them walk to the bus stop alone now! But, statistically, it is SAFER NOW for children then it was then, but, as a society we have grown much more fearful.
Media has much, much too much, to do with it.

All MHO.
 
I don't know if i would feel safe to go back into my home as the Celis family is. But with the family huddling together with Parents or other family members makes me think they should separate them all for interviews. Just in case the family is covering up for a family member. JMO
 
Most of the drug related incidents that I have heard about here have been home invasions. Drug runners come in looking for the drugs or money or weapons. They kill one or more family members. I don't think they would have just taken Isa. They wouldn't have taken the time to take off a screen and crawl in a window. They likely would have just busted in the house and held the family at bay. JMO.
 
This has not unfolded like a typical child abduction case. I expect the calculated dance between the family and LE to come to an end this week when the family lawyers up. And then we'll really see what LE's got.

MOO.
 
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