Max's Search Warrants Released!!!! Discuss Max's Death here #2

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jjenny said:
How did LE have access to JS phone records without him knowing? They would have to subpoena his phone records or have his cell phone physically in their possession. Considering LE waited a whole month to even turn on RN's cell phone that idea that they somehow got JS phone records without him knowing is a stretch.
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It's in the SW. They had everyone's records without them knowing so they could verify who was telling the truth.
 
The SW's are here:

[ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=149535"]Search Warrants Unsealed Shacknai Zahau - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community[/ame]

Thank you to the posters who have made these available for us.
 
And lest we lose sight of the child who died, this from Max's maternal grandmother:


Romano, the 6-year-old boy's grandmother, said she doesn't have a lot of information about the woman's death and has been focusing all of her energy on her grandson.

"He is a good boy, smart as a whip," Romano said. "We're praying. Please tell your readers that their prayers are appreciated."
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http://www.azcentral.com/business/a...s-death-reported-san-diego.html#ixzz1Yz30ktqQ


I just don't think a "good boy" who's "smart as a whip" would do something foolhardy.
 
CDS22 said:
Completely different height, angle, and no chandelier to break the fall. Notice the person didn't die either.
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i didn't say that's how max had his accident. i said that was an example of a scooter accident where the guy fell and face planted on the ground below. there are enough videos on youtube to see how common scooter accidents can be, and from what i've seen, they're extremely light weight as well, especially the tiny ones.
 
CDS22 said:
They've got him hitting his back on the railing. If he did that, he'd have a clear sailing straight downwards, not veering off to the side as shown. Also, hitting the chandelier, and/or railing would break the velocity, thus making a fatal spinal cord contusion impossible. It doesn't make sense at all.
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it makes a whole lot more sense than Rebecca throwing an unconscious Max down the stairway. how would Rebecca have the velocity that you stated was needed to create the kind of injury that Max had? She was extremely athletic yes but even athletic people don't necessarily have the power to throw a person with the same force as a speeding car. Plus, she had a limp, which even if it was not noticeable, would have still somewhat hindered her if she was to throw a boy like Max down the stairway with extreme force, and over the railings to boot.
 
Most children are good children who just lack the experience and knowledge that comes with age. Children are not equipped to understand the long term consequences of some actions...including those that may be dangerous. I am sure we all can remember doing foolish things that could have gotten us hurt as children. I for one walked the roof, walked across the top of my swing set, climbed into the highest trees and jumped onto the roof from there and stood on the seat of my bicycle while riding. I was a "good" kid too...just did not understand my behavior could have deathly consequences.
 
CDS22 said:
And lest we lose sight of the child who died, this from Max's maternal grandmother:





http://www.azcentral.com/business/a...s-death-reported-san-diego.html#ixzz1Yz30ktqQ


I just don't think a "good boy" who's "smart as a whip" would do something foolhardy.
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Some of the people who are against Rebecca have previously accused her of being criminally negligent because she should have been watching Max the whole time because kids his age can get up to all sorts of trouble, and have now come up with a theory that a boy as smart as Max would never have done anything foolish at all so he was obviously harmed by Rebecca in some way and she was responsible for his death. Either way, I sense victim blaming here, especially when she started being accused of not giving Max proper CPR even though there is no evidence that points to that scenario. I may be suspicious of Rebecca's death and even the Shacknais but I sense anger and hostility against Rebecca here. It's frightening to be honest. All the more reason for me to suspect that foul play may have befallen her rather than suicide.
 
Betty P said:
Razor scooters (actually spelled RAZR) are very lightweight and strong. My kids had them and did stunts for many years, though they've since outgrown the fad.

I can easily understand a scenario where the RAZR scooter handlebar could hit the stair rail and flip up and over, following Max to the bottom.

As for the abrasions on MS back, the police reconstruction of his fall illustrated very well how that happened. Its very plausible that he hit the opposite stair hand rail and slid down it, scraping his back on the wood.

You may want to review it again, it's on p10 of the linked PPT presentation:

http://www.sdsheriff.net/coronado/ms.pdf

For those of us who have raised active young boys, this scenario is not unrealistic, nor is MS's tragic accident unrealistic.
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Thank you.

By their scenario he did this just by running and maybe tripping on the thick carpet and plunged over the banister.

No where do they show that the scooter was involved in it whatsoever.

He was told never to ride his scooter on the second floor and there isn't any evidence that he ever did that, imo. I imagine he was told those were the rules from the moment Jonah bought it.

I feel that is why it was on the bottom floor because that was most likely the area he kept it along with his soccer balls.



IMO
 
CDS22 said:
And lest we lose sight of the child who died, this from Max's maternal grandmother:





http://www.azcentral.com/business/a...s-death-reported-san-diego.html#ixzz1Yz30ktqQ


I just don't think a "good boy" who's "smart as a whip" would do something foolhardy.
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When they're 6 years old? Of course they do. Being smart and good makes no difference. Having a sense of adventure, thrill seeking and being too immature to understand the consequences of one's behavior have a lot to do with it. Kids will be kids, boys will be boys.

No one doubts that MS was a good boy and smart as a whip. That doesn't mean he wasn't capable of engaging in risky behavior.

What's more difficult to understand are his relatives horrible reaction to the tragedy. It's appalling they chose to deal with their grief by striking out at RZ with such anger that it resulted in her death. What horrible, misguided people they are. IMO.
 
oceanblueeyes said:
Thank you.

By their scenario he did this just by running and maybe tripping on the thick carpet and plunged over the banister.

No where do they show that the scooter was involved in it whatsoever.

He was told never to ride his scooter on the second floor and there isn't any evidence that he ever did that, imo. I imagine he was told those were the rules from the moment Jonah bought it.

I feel that is why it was on the bottom floor because that was most likely the area he kept it along with his soccer balls.






IMO
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Running and tripping, either on carpet or on the dog is also a possibility. We may never know how it happened. It was a tragic accident, though, not murder.
 
Boodles said:
Again I must ask:

1) Did LE do a physical re-enactment of the scenario they showed in their powerpoint diagram? Did they use a dummy of same height/weight to replicate the steps alleged in Max's fall?

2) Have reports of JS cell records indicated that he called or sent a message to Rebecca that night (so that she had a message to retrieve at 12:50PM)? I don't buy the 3rd party app scenario, so just wondering if anyone knows whether LE has documented whether a message/call was sent from Jonah's phone? I mean, for all we know, she (or someone) could have just been listening to previously received messages from other people. Has the allegation that Jonah contacted Rebecca to say "things are bad..Max will die" been substantiated by anyone?
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Not that I'm aware of.
 
rosemary said:
i didn't say that's how max had his accident. i said that was an example of a scooter accident where the guy fell and face planted on the ground below. there are enough videos on youtube to see how common scooter accidents can be, and from what i've seen, they're extremely light weight as well, especially the tiny ones.
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My problem isn't the weight of the scooter. It's the angle, height, and the fact that he would need unbroken acceleration to die from fatal spinal cord contusion. With the diagram LE offered, you see him hitting the bannister, the wall, the chandelier, etc.
 
rosemary said:
it makes a whole lot more sense than Rebecca throwing an unconscious Max down the stairway. how would Rebecca have the velocity that you stated was needed to create the kind of injury that Max had? She was extremely athletic yes but even athletic people don't necessarily have the power to throw a person with the same force as a speeding car. Plus, she had a limp, which even if it was not noticeable, would have still somewhat hindered her if she was to throw a boy like Max down the stairway with extreme force, and over the railings to boot.
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<modsnip>. I'll just say that the velocity for an unconscious body is different than that of a conscious one.
 
Betty P said:
When they're 6 years old? Of course they do. Being smart and good makes no difference. Having a sense of adventure, thrill seeking and being too immature to understand the consequences of one's behavior have a lot to do with it. Kids will be kids, boys will be boys.

No one doubts that MS was a good boy and smart as a whip. That doesn't mean he wasn't capable of engaging in risky behavior.

What's more difficult to understand are his relatives horrible reaction to the tragedy. It's appalling they chose to deal with their grief by striking out at RZ with such anger that it resulted in her death. What horrible, misguided people they are. IMO.
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Please show me a link that the family members have struck out at RZ with anger resulting in her death. Please show a link that proves they are horrible, misguided people.

All we do have proof of, is that they donated their son's organs to children who will have a better life as a result of MS's tragic accident. They also asked for donations to a charity they have actively been supporting for years, in lieu of flowers or gifts. That shows me that they are wonderful people who are able to think of others while their hearts are breaking.
 
rosemary said:
Some of the people who are against Rebecca have previously accused her of being criminally negligent because she should have been watching Max the whole time because kids his age can get up to all sorts of trouble, and have now come up with a theory that a boy as smart as Max would never have done anything foolish at all so he was obviously harmed by Rebecca in some way and she was responsible for his death. Either way, I sense victim blaming here, especially when she started being accused of not giving Max proper CPR even though there is no evidence that points to that scenario. I may be suspicious of Rebecca's death and even the Shacknais but I sense anger and hostility against Rebecca here. It's frightening to be honest. All the more reason for me to suspect that foul play may have befallen her rather than suicide.
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I don't see how posting a quote from a loving grandmother shows anger and hostility towards anyone. I can speak for myself when I say I have no anger or hostility to anyone, particularly to someone I have only read about on the internet. I will say, however, that I feel compelled to be a voice for a dead child who is being blamed for his death.
 
oceanblueeyes said:
Thank you.

By their scenario he did this just by running and maybe tripping on the thick carpet and plunged over the banister.

No where do they show that the scooter was involved in it whatsoever.

He was told never to ride his scooter on the second floor and there isn't any evidence that he ever did that, imo. I imagine he was told those were the rules from the moment Jonah bought it.

I feel that is why it was on the bottom floor because that was most likely the area he kept it along with his soccer balls.



IMO
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Yes, and somehow it wound up over his leg when he obviously landed face first (as proven by the marks on the front of his head).

Also odd is that a child falling with such force onto the floor had only bruises on his nose and not a broken nose.
 
rosemary said:
Some of the people who are against Rebecca have previously accused her of being criminally negligent because she should have been watching Max the whole time because kids his age can get up to all sorts of trouble, and have now come up with a theory that a boy as smart as Max would never have done anything foolish at all so he was obviously harmed by Rebecca in some way and she was responsible for his death. Either way, I sense victim blaming here, especially when she started being accused of not giving Max proper CPR even though there is no evidence that points to that scenario. I may be suspicious of Rebecca's death and even the Shacknais but I sense anger and hostility against Rebecca here. It's frightening to be honest. All the more reason for me to suspect that foul play may have befallen her rather than suicide.
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But Max is just as much of a victim here as Rebecca.

While those question Rebecca's death others also question Max' death. I don't think it is wanting to blame anyone but wanting TRUTH and justice for Max if he was harmed and Rebecca if she was harmed.

I don't think the ICU Dr. was trying to personally blame anyone . He simply told the truth as he saw it to LE. The circumstances known to him did not add up with the extensive testing he did for 4 days. It does reinforce some theories that were already here that something is just not right in Max' death though. If it was an accident it was a bizarre accident just like Rebecca's supposed suicide was also unusual and bizarre too.

While Rebecca's death is unusual so is Max' death imo and of course that leads to others wondering what is the real truth and I really think all of us want the same thing. Truth. No matter if it is about Rebecca or Max' death.

Nor do I think it is abnormal to question each death and what may have happened.

I really dont know what the difference is. Some have continously blamed Jonah, Dina, Adam or Dina's sister for Rebecca's death. :waitasec:
 
CDS22 said:
Please show me a link that the family members have struck out at RZ with anger resulting in her death. Please show a link that proves they are horrible, misguided people.

All we do have proof of, is that they donated their son's organs to children who will have a better life as a result of MS's tragic accident. They also asked for donations to a charity they have actively been supporting for years, in lieu of flowers or gifts. That shows me that they are wonderful people who are able to think of others while their hearts are breaking.
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Read any of the dozens of articles that contain statements claiming RZ committed suicide. Read the Sheriff's report, which claims RZ committed suicide because of a terrible VM message left on her phone about MS death, allegedly a message left by JS.

That they had accused and continue to accuse RZ of being responsible for MS death doesn't speak well of their character. Requesting others donate to charities doesn't change that. JMO.
 
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