Theories On What Happened to Caylee Part #3

eddeva · Jan 14, 2009

well i seem to be in the minority - there is no way i can absolutely 'know' everything about something which happened thousands of miles away from me, but like everyone else i have an opinion and mine is that casey is solely responsible for the death of caylee. were it not so i believe she would have blamed the true culprit months ago.

Devon · Jan 14, 2009

eddeva said:
well i seem to be in the minority - there is no way i can absolutely 'know' everything about something which happened thousands of miles away from me, but like everyone else i have an opinion and mine is that casey is solely responsible for the death of caylee. were it not so i believe she would have blamed the true culprit months ago.

I don't 'know' anything either, and have certainly not seen sufficient evidence in this case to convince me of anything - that is except for being pretty sure (like you) that only KC is responsible for Caylee's death. Whether her culpability arises from a deliberate murder or pure negligence however is a question I am still grappling with.

Lanie · Jan 14, 2009

Now, to get back to being on topic with this thread.

I have a couple (actually, tons) of issues with what happened. I wish we had more timeline info to get a better idea of Casey's patterns.

DISCLAIMER: I realize Casey wasn't really working, I am just using this terminology to be more clear in what I am saying.

Casey seems to have had erratic working hours. If George can be believed, Casey left with Caylee at 12:50 pm June 16th. George left for work, I believe, by 2pm. Casey's cell records indicate she used her phone between 12:50 and 2. Pings show she stayed in the area of the Anthony's home. Computer useage for this day suggest she was back at home at 2, on the computer.
I don't understand why she would do this. Why not just say she didn't have to be at work until 2 or 3, avoiding the whole charade of getting dressed and acting like she was on her way to a fictional job, having to hide out for an hour until George left?
Was this her normal routine to enforce the lie of working, or did her schedule get disrupted by George changing jobs and/or Cindy being off for vacation the first week in June?
Second, assuming George told the truth, where was she between 12:50 and 2pm? Did she just go down the road a ways and sit in her car? Did she go hide out at Lee's? Is there a food place nearby she could have gone and had lunch with Caylee? This just seems so odd to me.
Lanie

reeseeva · Jan 14, 2009

Is this thread "Theories on what happend to Caylee, or

Dissecting of Theories on What happened to Caylee?

Devon · Jan 14, 2009

reeseeva said:
Is this thread "Theories on what happend to Caylee, or

Dissecting of Theories on What happened to Caylee?

Well if we simply stated our theories and there was no feedback or debate etc, then IMO it would be no more than a list of different opinions and fairly pointless. We all have different opinions and theories and I think it's very useful to be able to explore and debate them. Sometimes we may get a little frustrated or irritated with one another, but that's natural and I think we all have the grace to accept that and not take it personally. At least I hope so! :grouphug:

BondJamesBond · Jan 14, 2009

Lanie said:
Now, to get back to being on topic with this thread.

I have a couple (actually, tons) of issues with what happened. I wish we had more timeline info to get a better idea of Casey's patterns.

DISCLAIMER: I realize Casey wasn't really working, I am just using this terminology to be more clear in what I am saying.

Casey seems to have had erratic working hours. If George can be believed, Casey left with Caylee at 12:50 pm June 16th. George left for work, I believe, by 2pm. Casey's cell records indicate she used her phone between 12:50 and 2. Pings show she stayed in the area of the Anthony's home. Computer useage for this day suggest she was back at home at 2, on the computer.
I don't understand why she would do this. Why not just say she didn't have to be at work until 2 or 3, avoiding the whole charade of getting dressed and acting like she was on her way to a fictional job, having to hide out for an hour until George left?
Was this her normal routine to enforce the lie of working, or did her schedule get disrupted by George changing jobs and/or Cindy being off for vacation the first week in June?
Second, assuming George told the truth, where was she between 12:50 and 2pm? Did she just go down the road a ways and sit in her car? Did she go hide out at Lee's? Is there a food place nearby she could have gone and had lunch with Caylee? This just seems so odd to me.
Lanie

Based on Casey's historical photobucket usage times (see JWG's post in the computer forensic thread) it appears Caylee's naptime was ~1-3PM...which is consistent with a typical naptime for toddlers IMHO. The 'gotta be @ work' storyline allowed her to tell George she needed him to watch Caylee pre-nap while she primped to 'get ready for work'. Then she took Caylee for the oh-so-easy-to-care-for-naptime hours. While it maybe in conflict w/ Jesse potentially hearing Caylee in the background 6/16 <3PM...I have been curious if Casey was in the habit of driving for a few minutes while Caylee fell asleep in her carseat, then, she just left Caylee to nap in her carseat when she pulled into G&C's garage for her afternoon computer-time.

It woulda been a problem for George to hear Caylee in the background when he called her @ 3:04PM 6/16...since Casey was supposed to be @ work w/ Caylee @ ZFG's...yet...since, per cell log, Casey switched over from her call w/ Jesse to take the incoming call from George suggests to me she didn't have time to react to this...(i.e. seeing George's # on caller ID @ best...or @ worst thinking it was Tony and not ck'g caller ID). I know the duct tape is still a variable...but, IMHO there wasn't enough time for Casey to react to use duct tape to quieten Caylee upon taking the call from George. I dunno 'bout the duct tape....just dunno.

I'm repeating myself...but, after the 6/15 'fight' & two weekends in a row of being called home from Fusian in the wee hours of the morning...then giving George the prolly-won't-be-home-w/-Caylee-tonight story as she left 12:50PM 6/16....George prolly talked to Cindy and Cindy promptly went ballistic...tellin' George to FIX IT! George called Casey and in <30 seconds said Cindy's p'd...you'd better get your a$$ home tonight w/ Caylee. The the flurry of calls an hour later become Casey's enpassioned, ultimate "eff you" calls that were supposed to deliver the "Eff you! We won't be home tonight!" message. Note that she repeats a 'flurry" @ ~6:30PM when Cindy shoulda been home. IOW...to deliver the blow right to the heart.

Alternatively, since the second 'flurry' of calls occurs around the time of the Blockbuster security video...the flurry coulda been intended to be..."I've gotta work emergency and I hafta work late, ZFG can't keep Caylee later and I need to drop Caylee with you" (which Casey had done before...leaving Caylee off w/ Cindy @ Gentiva IIRC). This alternative would mean Caylee died away from G&C's, perhaps between G&C's and Tony's in the Pontiac...or @ Tony's in the Pontiac. The body remained in the Pontiac regardless.

Lanie · Jan 14, 2009

Devon said:
Bolded by me

Just as a matter of interest, what facts and evidence do you believe Kiki has chosen to abandon in order to maintain her position?

Other than the listing of what constitutes Florida first degree murder charges, which, BTW, I had already said had been posted numerous times, what facts and/or evidence do you see in that post?
I find it amusing Kiki seems to feel those of us who disagree with her opinion are wrong simply because we fail to meet the standard of behavior as set out for members of a jury. If she chooses to operate under those parameters, more power to her, but it isn't a requirement for this forum, therefore, I can come to my conclusions if I so choose without setting those limitations on myself without automatically being wrong, or violating some code of ethics.
Lanie

Lanie · Jan 14, 2009

BondJamesBond said:
Based on Casey's historical photobucket usage times (see JWG's post in the computer forensic thread) it appears Caylee's naptime was ~1-3PM...which is consistent with a typical naptime for toddlers IMHO. The 'gotta be @ work' storyline allowed her to tell George she needed him to watch Caylee pre-nap while she primped to 'get ready for work'. Then she took Caylee for the oh-so-easy-to-care-for-naptime hours. While it maybe in conflict w/ Jesse potentially hearing Caylee in the background 6/16 <3PM...I have been curious if Casey was in the habit of driving for a few minutes while Caylee fell asleep in her carseat, then, she just left Caylee to nap in her carseat when she pulled into G&C's garage for her afternoon computer-time.

Respectfully snipped.
Ok, please bear with me here. I would like to break this down in pieces.
Caylee's naptime was historically between 1-3.
George claims Casey left at 12:50. George was supposed to go to/be at work at 2. (Is that correct?) Computer useage at least seems to back this up.
George didn't say anything about watching Caylee. He doesn't say anything at all about seeing Caylee other than when he says she left with Casey at 12:50.
So, are you saying you think Casey left with Caylee, drove around the neighborhood until Caylee fell asleep, and then what?
Lanie

Indigo · Jan 14, 2009

BondJamesBond said:
Based on Casey's historical photobucket usage times (see JWG's post in the computer forensic thread) it appears Caylee's naptime was ~1-3PM...which is consistent with a typical naptime for toddlers IMHO. The 'gotta be @ work' storyline allowed her to tell George she needed him to watch Caylee pre-nap while she primped to 'get ready for work'. Then she took Caylee for the oh-so-easy-to-care-for-naptime hours. While it maybe in conflict w/ Jesse potentially hearing Caylee in the background 6/16 <3PM...I have been curious if Casey was in the habit of driving for a few minutes while Caylee fell asleep in her carseat, then, she just left Caylee to nap in her carseat when she pulled into G&C's garage for her afternoon computer-time.

It woulda been a problem for George to hear Caylee in the background when he called her @ 3:04PM 6/16...since Casey was supposed to be @ work w/ Caylee @ ZFG's...yet...since, per cell log, Casey switched over from her call w/ Jesse to take the incoming call from George suggests to me she didn't have time to react to this...(i.e. seeing George's # on caller ID @ best...or @ worst thinking it was Tony and not ck'g caller ID). I know the duct tape is still a variable...but, IMHO there wasn't enough time for Casey to react to use duct tape to quieten Caylee upon taking the call from George. I dunno 'bout the duct tape....just dunno.

I'm repeating myself...but, after the 6/15 'fight' & two weekends in a row of being called home from Fusian in the wee hours of the morning...then giving George the prolly-won't-be-home-w/-Caylee-tonight story as she left 12:50PM 6/16....George prolly talked to Cindy and Cindy promptly went ballistic...tellin' George to FIX IT! George called Casey and in <30 seconds said Cindy's p'd...you'd better get your a$$ home tonight w/ Caylee. The the flurry of calls an hour later become Casey's enpassioned, ultimate "eff you" calls that were supposed to deliver the "Eff you! We won't be home tonight!" message. Note that she repeats a 'flurry" @ ~6:30PM when Cindy shoulda been home. IOW...to deliver the blow right to the heart.

Alternatively, since the second 'flurry' of calls occurs around the time of the Blockbuster security video...the flurry coulda been intended to be..."I've gotta work emergency and I hafta work late, ZFG can't keep Caylee later and I need to drop Caylee with you" (which Casey had done before...leaving Caylee off w/ Cindy @ Gentiva IIRC). This alternative would mean Caylee died away from G&C's, perhaps between G&C's and Tony's in the Pontiac...or @ Tony's in the Pontiac. The body remained in the Pontiac regardless.

(Emphasis mine) Hi BondJamesBond!

I've wondered all along if Caylee wasn't already deceased by the time Casey talked to Jesse that day. IIRC , Casey had uploaded the Father's Day video, which could easily have been played in the background to simulate a live Caylee. All Casey had to do was turn the volume up or down to suit her story.

I believe she used this ploy several times, as Kio, Shirley and Jesse all reported hearing what they thought to be Caylee in the background during phone conversations.(in Shirley's case on her answering machine) Twice, Casey was heard "speaking" to Caylee. It's interesting to note also, that when Casey described her last "conversation with Caylee" over the telephone, what she was actually describing was the Father's Day video.

Is there any way of telling when the video was actually played?

BondJamesBond · Jan 14, 2009

Lanie said:
Respectfully snipped.
Ok, please bear with me here. I would like to break this down in pieces.

Caylee's naptime was historically between 1-3.

Yep.

George claims Casey left at 12:50. George was supposed to go to/be at work at 2. (Is that correct?) Computer useage at least seems to back this up.

IIRC, George had to be @ work by 3 vs. 2.

George didn't say anything about watching Caylee. He doesn't say anything at all about seeing Caylee other than when he says she left with Casey at 12:50.

Correct. I was 'speaking' generally...not specifically 6/16.

So, are you saying you think Casey left with Caylee, drove around the neighborhood until Caylee fell asleep, and then what?

Casey returned back to G&C's as evidenced by the computer forensics. She never left the area as supported by her cell pings.

Hope that helps.

Lanie · Jan 14, 2009

BondJamesBond said:
Yep.

IIRC, George had to be @ work by 3 vs. 2.

Correct. I was 'speaking' generally...not specifically 6/16.

Casey returned back to G&C's as evidenced by the computer forensics. She never left the area as supported by her cell pings.

Hope that helps.

LOL! I meant break down your post, not mine! That was funny, though, thanks.

Ok, it makes a little more sense now if George was supposed to be at work at 3 vs. 2.
Lanie

BondJamesBond · Jan 14, 2009

Indigo said:
(Emphasis mine) Hi BondJamesBond! I've wondered all along if Caylee wasn't already deceased by the time Casey talked to Jesse that day. IIRC , Casey had uploaded the Father's Day video, which could easily have been played in the background to simulate a live Caylee. All Casey had to do was turn the volume up or down to suit her story.

I believe she used this ploy several times, as Kio, Shirley and Jesse all reported hearing what they thought to be Caylee in the background during phone conversations.(in Shirley's case on her answering machine) Twice, Casey was heard "speaking" to Caylee. It's interesting to note also, that when Casey described her last "conversation with Caylee" over the telephone, what she was actually describing was the Father's Day video.

Is there any way of telling when the video was actually played?

Backatcha, Indigo

I know the computer forensics show Casey loaded the pics from the digital camera to her laptop (3:17PM 6/17, IIRC), but, I don't recall seeing that she loaded the video. Lemme know if I just missed that info.

As far as I know the only way to 'forensically' establish if the video had been played subsequently would be IF Casey had uploaded that file to either G&C's desktop or the laptop, then, if left intact, there would be a history of files accessed on the computer to support what you describe regarding its use to fool others on the phone.

FWIW...and my memory is really foggy...so maybe not worth much, but, IIRC, the Shirley call was a unintelligible and Shirley just speculated it coulda been Casey & Caylee. I checked Casey's cell log and found no calls to Shirley's number. Continuing...IIRC, Kio changed her story and said the call she had received was actually from a Casey W. vs. Casey A. and that the other Casey had a toddler too.

Way back when, in a thread I started entitled something like "What pushed Casey over the edge" or somethin' similar (if your interested in searching & reading) I was inspired by another posters thread on an expert analysis of criminal statements. The expert's analysis was very interesting and he later looked @ Casey's statement and posted it on the web (link on that other thread as well). Sooo...I took a hack @ analyzing Casey's statement :bang: and also concluded that Casey simply recalled the video as the source of describing to LE what Caylee was doing (i.e. reading book, calm, etc.) on her alleged/fictitious 7/15 noontime call from a private number

So...I selfishly like the way you think!

kiki the parrot · Jan 14, 2009

Devon said:
I'm beginning to have some doubts about the state's charges myself. I have a feeling they were really hoping for either a confession or a body that told it's own story, but it appears that neither has materialised. The next few weeks could be very interesting IMO!

(respectfully snipped) Yes--either the prosecution is holding an awful lot up it's sleeve, or overcharged, as you say, in hopes of extracting an admission of something less. I can only imagine there is embarassment on the part of LE, and OCSO quite peeved w deputy sheriff Richard Cain, in light of the fact a body--intact, w some tissue preserved--might have been recovered as early as August 11 had he followed through and responded in a thorough manner... That would've been just 28 days following the report, and likely eight weeks or less from the date of death (grrrr...)

Indigo said:
I've wondered all along if Caylee wasn't already deceased by the time Casey talked to Jesse that day. IIRC , Casey had uploaded the Father's Day video, which could easily have been played in the background to simulate a live Caylee. All Casey had to do was turn the volume up or down to suit her story.

I believe she used this ploy several times, as Kio, Shirley and Jesse all reported hearing what they thought to be Caylee in the background during phone conversations.(in Shirley's case on her answering machine) Twice, Casey was heard "speaking" to Caylee. It's interesting to note also, that when Casey described her last "conversation with Caylee" over the telephone, what she was actually describing was the Father's Day video.

Is there any way of telling when the video was actually played?

Very good question. Whether intentional or not, it is hard to imagine KC sticking around to do this after the fact... And even less comprehensible that she would do such a thing prior to anything other than an accident. JMO

:waitasec:

Starfish · Jan 14, 2009

Drowning in the pool was always the best scenario IMO. At first I though it was accidental, but not really because if she drowned in the pool her mother should have been watching her (CA would never let Casey forget that either). So she drowns in the pool accidently because her mother is blabbing on the phone or sleeping from a rough night prior. Perhaps Casey does see this as an accident of convenience & there's nothing else she can do for Caylee.....might as well go on with life & party party party. You see, its the partying that blows the accidental theory all to h&ll for me. At this point, after the remains were found with duct tape, I still feel Caylee drowned in the pool after she was drugged (chloroform?) by her mother & put there.

I will also be real interested in hearing just when Casey left the house with Caylee after the fight with Cindy. If she took off with her that night right after the fight, I think Caylee was crying for her grandma which pi$$ed Casey off & she taped her mouth shut & put her in the trunk, possibly using the chloroform. If she & Caylee were still at the house the next morning as CA & GA state, then I'm back to the pool theory.

Of course the above is only my opinion & it is subject to change at any given moment......I cannot wait for the trial to start so we are shown all the pieces we're missing.

Devon · Jan 14, 2009

Still on the subject of the pool, I understood that the cadaver dogs made 2 positive hits in the backyard, one of which was by the pool, but according to this article the dogs found nothing in the backyard!

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/local/breakingnews/orl-bk-casey-anthony-011409,0,7346015.story

Lanie · Jan 14, 2009

BondJamesBond said:
Based on Casey's historical photobucket usage times (see JWG's post in the computer forensic thread) it appears Caylee's naptime was ~1-3PM...which is consistent with a typical naptime for toddlers IMHO. The 'gotta be @ work' storyline allowed her to tell George she needed him to watch Caylee pre-nap while she primped to 'get ready for work'. Then she took Caylee for the oh-so-easy-to-care-for-naptime hours. While it maybe in conflict w/ Jesse potentially hearing Caylee in the background 6/16 <3PM...I have been curious if Casey was in the habit of driving for a few minutes while Caylee fell asleep in her carseat, then, she just left Caylee to nap in her carseat when she pulled into G&C's garage for her afternoon computer-time.

Has any info been released on what was being done on the desktop during this time? With the info I have been able to come up with, I can't seem to make this timeline on June 16 fit anything.
Was George even at home? I know he says he was, but is there outside corroboration of this? IIRC, someone said his phone was pinging away from the house, but I never saw a link for that.
Lanie

JWG · Jan 14, 2009

I will throw another possibility out there that probably has been mentioned already - none of my material is ever all that original, after all.

Assembling what I have read here recently, if KC did drive around with Caylee until she fell asleep at nap time and went home, it is possible she left a sleeping Caylee in the car. Suppose she came back to the home around 1:45, started taking some stuff out of the car and carrying them into the house, and calls Amy at the same time. The call with Amy lasts 36 minutes. Sometime during that period KC gets on the computer. Perhaps Amy said "OMG girl, you have to see what so-and-so just wrote on their Facebook" and KC rushed in to fire up the computer and see what it was.

Long conversation, lots of computer activity - major distraction.

KC remains distracted through the Jesse conversation. Then George calls and and during the brief conversation mentions Caylee's name, and suddenly KC remembers leaving Caylee in the car.

Just a thought.

It's Not the Nanny · Jan 14, 2009

BondJamesBond said:
Based on Casey's historical photobucket usage times (see JWG's post in the computer forensic thread) it appears Caylee's naptime was ~1-3PM...which is consistent with a typical naptime for toddlers IMHO. The 'gotta be @ work' storyline allowed her to tell George she needed him to watch Caylee pre-nap while she primped to 'get ready for work'. Then she took Caylee for the oh-so-easy-to-care-for-naptime hours. While it maybe in conflict w/ Jesse potentially hearing Caylee in the background 6/16 <3PM...I have been curious if Casey was in the habit of driving for a few minutes while Caylee fell asleep in her carseat, then, she just left Caylee to nap in her carseat when she pulled into G&C's garage for her afternoon computer-time.

It woulda been a problem for George to hear Caylee in the background when he called her @ 3:04PM 6/16...since Casey was supposed to be @ work w/ Caylee @ ZFG's...yet...since, per cell log, Casey switched over from her call w/ Jesse to take the incoming call from George suggests to me she didn't have time to react to this...(i.e. seeing George's # on caller ID @ best...or @ worst thinking it was Tony and not ck'g caller ID). I know the duct tape is still a variable...but, IMHO there wasn't enough time for Casey to react to use duct tape to quieten Caylee upon taking the call from George. I dunno 'bout the duct tape....just dunno.

I'm repeating myself...but, after the 6/15 'fight' & two weekends in a row of being called home from Fusian in the wee hours of the morning...then giving George the prolly-won't-be-home-w/-Caylee-tonight story as she left 12:50PM 6/16....George prolly talked to Cindy and Cindy promptly went ballistic...tellin' George to FIX IT! George called Casey and in <30 seconds said Cindy's p'd...you'd better get your a$$ home tonight w/ Caylee. The the flurry of calls an hour later become Casey's enpassioned, ultimate "eff you" calls that were supposed to deliver the "Eff you! We won't be home tonight!" message. Note that she repeats a 'flurry" @ ~6:30PM when Cindy shoulda been home. IOW...to deliver the blow right to the heart.

Alternatively, since the second 'flurry' of calls occurs around the time of the Blockbuster security video...the flurry coulda been intended to be..."I've gotta work emergency and I hafta work late, ZFG can't keep Caylee later and I need to drop Caylee with you" (which Casey had done before...leaving Caylee off w/ Cindy @ Gentiva IIRC). This alternative would mean Caylee died away from G&C's, perhaps between G&C's and Tony's in the Pontiac...or @ Tony's in the Pontiac. The body remained in the Pontiac regardless.

Bond - I literally got chills when I read your theory about her driving around with Caylee in the car while she fell asleep and then just leaving her in the car while she went in to the computer!

Maybe Caylee died from a heat stroke in the car?

I know when you have a 2 year old and it's getting close to naptime that it starts to get rough....the child will get emotional, testy, etc. I'm sure KC would be at her end point and be forced to let Caylee nap.

If it was an accidental death from heat in the car, why did she tell George they wouldn't be back tonight? (to me, that screams premeditation!) Was she going to bring Caylee for the first time to TonE's like she had before to Ricardo's but Caylee died from a heat stroke before?

Also, if Caylee died in the carseat, wouldn't the cadaver dogs have hit on the seat and not just the trunk?

It's Not the Nanny · Jan 14, 2009

JWG said:
I will throw another possibility out there that probably has been mentioned already - none of my material is ever all that original, after all.

Assembling what I have read here recently, if KC did drive around with Caylee until she fell asleep at nap time and went home, it is possible she left a sleeping Caylee in the car. Suppose she came back to the home around 1:45, started taking some stuff out of the car and carrying them into the house, and calls Amy at the same time. The call with Amy lasts 36 minutes. Sometime during that period KC gets on the computer. Perhaps Amy said "OMG girl, you have to see what so-and-so just wrote on their Facebook" and KC rushed in to fire up the computer and see what it was.

Long conversation, lots of computer activity - major distraction.

KC remains distracted through the Jesse conversation. Then George calls and and during the brief conversation mentions Caylee's name, and suddenly KC remembers leaving Caylee in the car.

Just a thought.

BINGO!! I think this is what happened. Wow.....

It's Not the Nanny · Jan 14, 2009

Anyone know what the temperature was there on June 16 around 3 pm?

Theories On What Happened to Caylee Part #3

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