ID ID - Lonnie Jones, 13, Orofino, September 1951

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Wait, how soon did the carnival leave town after Lonnie went missing? And how could that trucker tell just by looking that Lonnie had been sexually assaulted?
 
scriptgirl said:
Wait, how soon did the carnival leave town after Lonnie went missing? And how could that trucker tell just by looking that Lonnie had been sexually assaulted?
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Historicaly from my experience the carnival closes by late afternoon on Sunday the day of the Lumberjack competitions,tears down that night and is pretty much gone by monday morning.
I would have to assume it was pretty much the same in the early 50's.
It wasnt the truckdriver who made the call that Lonnie had been sodomized but the coroner.
Of course considering he was nude with his hands bound behind him was kind of a tip off im sure.
 
liz b. said:
His hands were bound by a handerchief ? Belonging to him,or the killer(s) ? Any DNA on that handkerchief ? Or anywhere else on his body,I wonder ?

The use of the handkerchief sounds like this was an opportunistic murder ; the killer had to improvise, bind his hands with whatever was immediately available...He didn't set out to kill anyone...MOO

I would hope that the 2 teenagers were questioned very,very closely...MOO
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Ill have to review the article but im certain it said it was Lonnie's handkerchief.
 
justthinkin said:
This case is a long way from where I am, but surfing through unsolved cold cases, I read the background, and thought I'd add my two cents. Poor kid was probably very trusting back in those days, and coming from a rural area where people rely on their neighbors, he most likely never imagined what was in store for him until it was way too late. Very sad.

I think the teens could easily have been telling the truth. Just as easily though, they could have been lying, and Lonnie could have left the carnival with them a lot earlier than the time they claim they gave him a lift. I'm guessing they'd also been to the carnival and were returning home to Kamiah. If they were telling the truth, they probably had a deadline to be home by so dropped Johnny as far as they could take him, Greer.

I looked at the 4 locations on the map, Orofino, Greer, Wieppe, and Kamiah. This is a very rural area with few people. Even looking at Google Maps, there was not a single shot of a vehicle on Hwy 12 between Orofino and Kamiah.

Why on such a lightly traveled road, would a trucker have to leave the side of the highway to travel down a deeply rutted road to look for a place to relieve himself? I'm guessing we're talking about someone in a pick-up? 18 wheelers don't take to rutted roads easily nor do other, smaller, but still large trucks. Was the man in a pick-up, and his occupation was that of a truck driver or was he simply referred to as a truck driver because he was driving a pick-up? Was he on the job at the time, and if he was driving a truck larger than a pick-up was he the owner or did the truck actually belong to the company he worked for? Would he risk getting his employer's truck stuck just to take a pee?

I was a child back in the fifties, and I remember people even stopping by the sides of freeways to relieve themselves or to let junior out to pee. It was not all that uncommon a sight to see back then. Men didn't think anything of doing this, IMO, back in the day. You could see a guy standing out by his vehicle, his back to the road, and you pretty much could guess he was watering the plants.

Wish someone up that way could track down the name of the person who discovered Johnny's body, via an old newspaper account perhaps. I think that person is very much of interest in this case.
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Yes.It is sparsely populated more so back then.
I dont know what kind of truck it was...it could very easily have been a logging truck then as now there are many on the roads.
I would like to know the truckdriver's name as well.I havent been able to gain access to the file yet.Very frustrating.(If it still exists.)
The kids returning to Kamiah would have been indeed taking him as far as they could...Greer,such as it is ,is only about four blocks long.The very steep Greer grade starts uphill immediatly at its east end .
After dropping Lonnie off they would have had to turn around and go back across the bridge that spans the Clearwater River to HWY 12 turn left and beat it toward Kamiah especially if they were up against a curfew deadline.
Lonnie would have had to get back up the nearly five mile long uphill grade to get home to Weippe.
Greer would have been most likely dark and deserted at that hour.
I still feel it a very unlikely place for a transient deviant or Carny to be lurking by chance(youd have to see the area yourself I guess)its not a likely place to happen upon if you dont live here I guess im trying to say.
But thats just based on gut feeling I may well be wrong.
However ANY of Lonnie's Weippe neighbors would have to go that way to get home which he undoubtebly was counting on.
Nice work by the way being able to draw so many correct conclusions about the area just from Google!
I sure appreciate the input please feel free to continue.
Any suggestions or thoughts are most welcome...I get kind of discouraged with this case at times.
I was by the Weiipe cemetary recently up on the prairie.
Its just a stones throw from where Lewis and Clarks half starved band of explorers first encountered the Nez Pearce Indians who saved them.
Its a very peaceful spot.
 
STANDREID said:
What was the explanation the teenagers gave for dropping Lonnie off at that particular site? What did he tell them when he was in their car?
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I wish I knew what was talked about,it would only have been about a twelve minute ride.
More info that is probably in the investigation file.
 
One would certainly think.
Im taking another run at it next week,wish me luck.
 
kline said:
Ill have to review the article but im certain it said it was Lonnie's handkerchief.
Click to expand...

TY Kline... even more interesting if it was,in fact,Lonnie's handerchief. And I'm thinking it must have been a bandana type of handkerchief, a regular handkerchief would not be big enough to bind anyone with MOO.

Even after all this time,there might still be some telltale dna hiding on it...MOO After all,who would have thought back then what the future would hold in terms of forensic science ? MOO
 
liz b. said:
TY Kline... even more interesting if it was,in fact,Lonnie's handerchief. And I'm thinking it must have been a bandana type of handkerchief, a regular handkerchief would not be big enough to bind anyone with MOO.

Even after all this time,there might still be some telltale dna hiding on it...MOO After all,who would have thought back then what the future would hold in terms of forensic science ? MOO
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Yes.I think it must have been a bandanna type too,carrying them was alot more common then.
The DNA angle is something ive contemplated as well...especially in light of the(unsubstantiated) rumors that it was relative that killed him.
That part of the legend was still alive and well when I first heard about the murder as a kid in the late 60's.
 
What does MOO mean?
Does anyone know anything about Lonnie's family-were there any bad seeds? Any truth to a cousin of his that left town?
Also, does he still have family in the area?
 
scriptgirl said:
What does MOO mean?
Does anyone know anything about Lonnie's family-were there any bad seeds? Any truth to a cousin of his that left town?
Also, does he still have family in the area?
Click to expand...
I think 'MOO' is shorthand for'My Own Opinion' (I think)
I was able to find out little more information (some of which contradicts what I thought I knew of course).
Lonnie disappeared SATURDAY night of the Fair he was last seen by two high school boys a Bob Hill 19 and a Leroy Kidder 17 when they picked him up at the Orofino Bridge leading across the river to Highway 12 shortly after midnight which would make it the early morning of Sunday the 23rd.
They said he 'seemed a little frightened but 'his spirits had improved' by the time they dropped him off at Greer.
(Keep in mind these quotes are in early 50's 'Newspaper-ese' so God only know how they actually worded it.)
Lonnie had came to the Fair Saturday Morning 'With A Neighbor Family' and ran into his Grandmother also of Weippe about 4:00 pm she asked him to come home with her but he refused 'It was her impression he wanted to stay and see the movie playing at the Rex Theater that night.'
She gave him $5.00.(quite bundle for a kid at the Fair in 1951.)
When he never made it home there was massive search by volunteers along the grade between Weippe and Greer on Monday and Tuesday and Wednesday which of course turned up nothing.
At 6:30 AM Thursday morning a Weippe Logger named Orrin C. Woods stopped his logging truck for a 'rest stop' along HWY 12 and started over the bank towards the River about ten feet down he came across Lonnie's body in the weeds and rocks next to the water.
Now get this: His hands werent tied behind him as Id been told,by his handkerchief.
He was BLINDFOLDED with the Handkerchief and his wrists were bent up behind his back "In A Grotesque Position" (My first thought is handcuffs that were then removed when the body was dumped ,but who knows.)
The local paper headline that afternoon was "BOY RUNS AFOUL OF DEGENERATE"
Even weirder the investigation was placed in the hands of an 'Attorney and Former FBI agent' named Henry Savage who practiced in Colfax Washington...Im having trouble getting my mind around that one.
they brought in a pathologist from Boise named Joseph Beenan who determined from the contents of Lonnies stomach,the food he'd eaten at teh Fair that he died within four hours...the early morning hours after midnight on the 23rd.
"The Killer" the Pathologist said "stood behind him and took two slashes at his throat and Lonnie may have, judging by by the condition of the body(?) been able to frustrate any 'Deviant or Sexual impulse' on behalf of the Killer" (Double??).
The following weeks paper has a headline 'Community Recoils From Brutal Murder'.
It recaps info from the previous article and and says that" Inspite of erroneus Radio Reports and Street Gossip no arrests had been made"
It says "hundreds" had come forward with info that might aid in the investigation(What I wouldnt give to get my hands on those reports) and the local VFW had posted a 500 dollar reward for info leading to the apprehension of the killer.
and after that ...nothing I couldnt even find a mention of the case in papers for the next six weeks.Very Strange.
Anyway I have alot of re-figuring to do.
Any thoughts form you guys are most welcome.
 
scriptgirl said:
So, were his wrists broken and what do they mean, frustrating a Deviant?
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I dont know if they were broken or not,it just said 'bent into grotesque position behind back'.
Obviously the killer wanted to keep whatever Lonnie's hands were bound with.
I think the 'frustrating the killer' part was the powers that be trying to hedge or put out there for the benefit of his family or whoever that Lonnie was some how able to keep his killer from sodomizing him.
That that had happened apparently was common knowledge real quick to the public (hence the 'Boy Runs Afoul of Degenerate' headline)
Unfortunately back then even being the victim of a homosexual rape would carry a stigma.
There are just so many questions its going to be interesting to try and get answered at this late date.
Im going to see who I can track down who is still alive from the names Ive got.
Im still stunned that an attourney from another state (even though as the crow flies Colfax isnt that far away) was immediatly put in charge of the investigation...former FBI or not.
Apparently they had a different way of doing things in 1951.
 
kline said:
I think 'MOO' is shorthand for'My Own Opinion' (I think)
I was able to find out little more information (some of which contradicts what I thought I knew of course).
Lonnie disappeared SATURDAY night of the Fair he was last seen by two high school boys a Bob Hill 19 and a Leroy Kidder 17 when they picked him up at the Orofino Bridge leading across the river to Highway 12 shortly after midnight which would make it the early morning of Sunday the 23rd.
They said he 'seemed a little frightened but 'his spirits had improved' by the time they dropped him off at Greer.
(Keep in mind these quotes are in early 50's 'Newspaper-ese' so God only know how they actually worded it.)
Lonnie had came to the Fair Saturday Morning 'With A Neighbor Family' and ran into his Grandmother also of Weippe about 4:00 pm she asked him to come home with her but he refused 'It was her impression he wanted to stay and see the movie playing at the Rex Theater that night.'
She gave him $5.00.(quite bundle for a kid at the Fair in 1951.)
When he never made it home there was massive search by volunteers along the grade between Weippe and Greer on Monday and Tuesday and Wednesday which of course turned up nothing.
At 6:30 AM Thursday morning a Weippe Logger named Orrin C. Woods stopped his logging truck for a 'rest stop' along HWY 12 and started over the bank towards the River about ten feet down he came across Lonnie's body in the weeds and rocks next to the water.
Now get this: His hands werent tied behind him as Id been told,by his handkerchief.
He was BLINDFOLDED with the Handkerchief and his wrists were bent up behind his back "In A Grotesque Position" (My first thought is handcuffs that were then removed when the body was dumped ,but who knows.)
The local paper headline that afternoon was "BOY RUNS AFOUL OF DEGENERATE"
Even weirder the investigation was placed in the hands of an 'Attorney and Former FBI agent' named Henry Savage who practiced in Colfax Washington...Im having trouble getting my mind around that one.
they brought in a pathologist from Boise named Joseph Beenan who determined from the contents of Lonnies stomach,the food he'd eaten at teh Fair that he died within four hours...the early morning hours after midnight on the 23rd.
"The Killer" the Pathologist said "stood behind him and took two slashes at his throat and Lonnie may have, judging by by the condition of the body(?) been able to frustrate any 'Deviant or Sexual impulse' on behalf of the Killer" (Double??).
The following weeks paper has a headline 'Community Recoils From Brutal Murder'.
It recaps info from the previous article and and says that" Inspite of erroneus Radio Reports and Street Gossip no arrests had been made"
It says "hundreds" had come forward with info that might aid in the investigation(What I wouldnt give to get my hands on those reports) and the local VFW had posted a 500 dollar reward for info leading to the apprehension of the killer.
and after that ...nothing I couldnt even find a mention of the case in papers for the next six weeks.Very Strange.
Anyway I have alot of re-figuring to do.
Any thoughts form you guys are most welcome.
Click to expand...

Kline,
TY for posting this. ITA about the amount--$5.00 was a whole lot of money for a kid to have in 1951.. How much of the money did Lonnie have on him when he was found ? I wonder if he was killed in part for the money ? Ore if someone saw him buying something with that money,and that was really how he came into the killer's orbit ? MOO
 
So,after Lonnie's grandmother left him at the fair around 6:30pm, none of his other relatives at the fair saw him... then, according to the 2 high school boys he was at the side of the road arund 12:30 ?

The 2 teenage boys said something about Lonnie being "frightened" when they picked him up, but stated that he felt better after he rode with them ? Sounds strange MOO (my opinion only ).... Interesting that the 2 boys gave that info about Lonnie's supposed state of mind. Maybe Lonnie really was very frightened at 12:30 that night...wherever he actually was at that time ? MOO
 
I dont know if he had any money on him or not.....its my understanding that he was nude when he was found but like everything else perhaps Ill discover different.
Im sure he was scared....he was only 12,of course 12 was in some ways older then but to find himself that late at night with no way home...
Even at 19 I cant picture myself abandoning a 12 year old at night in the dark at Greer....
I mean crap im fifty one and id be spooked to be dropped off like that, having to somehow get all the way up the Greer grade in the dark clear to Weippe on foot...
So much of this new stuff is just flat out strange.
Im sure this Henry Savage the FBI guy turned lawyer(actually I think alot of agents back in the day were Lawyers)is long since deceased but it would be interesting to see what his decendents might have to say about the investigation.
If he has any that is.
Im wondering if any of those tip sheets that came in from the public still exist?
Weippe is a very small very isolated community even today...they must have had fun trying to get any information back in those days.
Im also intrigued by the blindfold....why on earth was he blindfolded?
I mean I realize one could read a thousand things into that....many of them contradictory about the killer and who or what he was.
Im going to have to re-think alot of my pre-concieved notions obviously.
 
Since he had money, I wonder why he didn't just phone a relative and tell them that he was stranded. Or, maybe he contacted a policeman and the cop was the perp.
 
kline said:
I dont know if he had any money on him or not.....its my understanding that he was nude when he was found but like everything else perhaps Ill discover different.
Im sure he was scared....he was only 12,of course 12 was in some ways older then but to find himself that late at night with no way home...
Even at 19 I cant picture myself abandoning a 12 year old at night in the dark at Greer....
I mean crap im fifty one and id be spooked to be dropped off like that, having to somehow get all the way up the Greer grade in the dark clear to Weippe on foot...
So much of this new stuff is just flat out strange.
Im sure this Henry Savage the FBI guy turned lawyer(actually I think alot of agents back in the day were Lawyers)is long since deceased but it would be interesting to see what his decendents might have to say about the investigation.
If he has any that is.
Im wondering if any of those tip sheets that came in from the public still exist?
Weippe is a very small very isolated community even today...they must have had fun trying to get any information back in those days.
Im also intrigued by the blindfold....why on earth was he blindfolded?
I mean I realize one could read a thousand things into that....many of them contradictory about the killer and who or what he was.
Im going to have to re-think alot of my pre-concieved notions obviously.
Click to expand...

So, no one ever found any of Lonnie's clothing ? TIA...
 
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