Casey & Family Psychological Profile #3

Originally Posted by OneLostGrl
Gosh, you are so right about what people want to believe.. they try to find anything "reaL" (incest, rape, bipolar, ppd, psychosis) to blame it on because they just cannot comprehend that a person, a pretty little thing at that, could just be evil.

I get most resentful when people say Casey may be psychotic and that may be why she did what she did. It makes me want to take those people by the hand and escort them to a locked psych ward and have them spend the day.. going to groups with and spending time with people who are in fact psychotic. I bet by the end of the day their minds would be changed about Casey. Ya know?

There is illness and then there is evil and society needs to learn the difference. You are a kind soul, Brini- your posts always make so much sense and are informative..I thank you for that and your kindness toward me as well

LOL about the christmas party- we had a blast- my husbands boss always goes all out and they are all a bunch of lushes so it's always entertaining!
------------------------------------

A lot of people posting here are well acquainted with having mental illness and/or knowing people with mental illness. Many of us have been through hell and back. We have ourselves been in locked psych wards.

There's a way of explaining things without being demeaning.

Blackwatch said:

Now that I'm really thinking about it, I wonder if Casey experienced head trauma after Caylee was born, around the time Jessee said she changed. My ex-hubby banged his head and became a changed person in an instant and that's why we divorced. Neither of us realized what was happening at the time (he still denies it), but the trauma broke certain lines of communication in the brain (too lazy to get proper terminology right now) and it took a long time for them to heal. By then the stranger who walked into my house after the injury and I were too angry at one another to stay married. The sad part is neither of us knew, at the time, that such a thing could happen because of a blow to the head.

Click to expand...

I think Cindy is the only trauma Casey's head had. Then she had Caylee and discovered the sun did not rise and set upon her any longer... that Cindy had found a new toy to play with. So her attention getting behaviors got worse and worse (any attention, even negative is better than none for some people).. like she was saying as she stole the routing number off her grandmothers check "yoo-hoo- mom, remember me, no?! well ya will now!" until even that got her no attention. So she had no other choices left.

concentric said:

A lot of people posting here are well acquainted with having mental illness and/or knowing people with mental illness. Many of us have been through hell and back. We have ourselves been in locked psych wards.

There's a way of explaining things without being demeaning.

Click to expand...

I agree, some of us have and that is how we know what Psychosis looks like. It is not easily mistaken for anything else. I explained the symptoms (offered links and all, I believe) and how none of them are present in Casey several pages back and I believe in the second thread as well when it was brought up. I honestly just don't see how anyone can even think they see it in Casey and I admit, I get a bit frustrated with the fact that it keeps coming up as if it is a viable option. I am sorry if I hurt your feelings while expressing my frustration I did not mean to.

I have Rapid cycling Bipolar I with mixed and psychotic episodes, that is no secret- I would never attempt to demean anyone that is mentally ill because I know how it feels. I try to offer facts, symptoms, traits and personal stories to help others better understand mental illness (I'd love to see a day when everyone is informed so they can spot the symptoms early and get treatment before things get out of hand.. the earlier one is treated the better chance they have of some day having a normal life) and I just feel that every time someone says Casey may be Psychotic it just tosses mis-information and stigma back onto Psychosis.

Anyway, again, I am sorry I hurt your feelings I really truly did not mean to.

I can certainly understand why people use the word "psychotic". If they are not in the mental health field, most people use the term casually.

IMO CA is a socipathic narcissist and daugther KC is the same. GA is a putz. Haven't managed to figure out LA yet...

MOO

OneLostGrl said:

I think Cindy is the only trauma Casey's head had. Then she had Caylee and discovered the sun did not rise and set upon her any longer... that Cindy had found a new toy to play with. So her attention getting behaviors got worse and worse (any attention, even negative is better than none for some people).. like she was saying as she stole the routing number off her grandmothers check "yoo-hoo- mom, remember me, no?! well ya will now!" until even that got her no attention. So she had no other choices left.

Click to expand...

I do not agree with this opinion. I do not believe her stealing was an attention getter.
I'm grateful that we both are allowed to state our opinions though.
oh, and my mom has always said that you always have choices.
There were plenty of choices other than murdering her daughter. She herself stated that fact to LE at Universal.

While channel surfing looking for coverage on the case I stumbled onto a show that helped me potentially understand something key about this case. The show as called 'Intervention' and it was about a family that has a young mother battling anorexia. She had two young kids and besides anorexia she had checked out of her mom duties and was pill popping to boot.

The family had enough and staged an intervention. Several scenes concerning this were played out on the show.

First, the dad of the mother (grand dad) had a pretty hard time getting away from notion of writing her off which was his stance before the interventionist got involved. The young mother was using a molestation in her youth from someone as an excuse to continue the disorder. I had an interest in anorexia in the past and I believe this condition is very very hard to successfully treat. To me the molestation thing was a ruse.

When the intervention occurred, grand dad read a letter out about how the kids had withdrawn from her and that they needed their mother. They had to tiptoe around her saying the loved her and wanted her to be the best mom ect. The goal was to convince her to accept treatment.

Her responses to this were telling and key. I watched very intently to her reactions to all this. In a few scenes that led up to this, you see the mother say, to the camera no less, that she did want to come down and fix the kids lunch because she was on the computer. Her expression and the way she delivered these comments where telling. During the intervention their were other reactions.

The bottom line is that what popped into my mind viewing these reactions was a closeted HATRED for her kids. She could not truly admit this feeling because that would drive the grand parents to disown her and her enabled lifestyle. I felt it though ... that was a solid feeling that came through to me.

At any rate, a key in this case is how being annoyed at being a mom gets amped up to a rage leading to murder. This show seemed to illustrate a path: a hidden, building anger from a building narcissism directed at weak victim. Even for this show, the problems of the mother where drowning out this aspect of it. I found the show informative and telling.

Blackwatch said:

Now that I'm really thinking about it, I wonder if Casey experienced head trauma after Caylee was born, around the time Jessee said she changed. My ex-hubby banged his head and became a changed person in an instant and that's why we divorced. Neither of us realized what was happening at the time (he still denies it), but the trauma broke certain lines of communication in the brain (too lazy to get proper terminology right now) and it took a long time for them to heal. By then the stranger who walked into my house after the injury and I were too angry at one another to stay married. The sad part is neither of us knew, at the time, that such a thing could happen because of a blow to the head.

Click to expand...

Casey was a troubled girl from the get go. No banging of head after Casey was born. Consider this: She quit high school, she didn't go to college, she had no aspirations other than partying and dating, she lied to Jesse G. and told him he was the father of Caylee....and she had complete cognitive abilities to do all she did during the 30 days Caylee was "missing". I can understand people trying to find an answer or a reason as it is just too incomprehensible to understand, however, there are just plain selfish, jealous, evil people in this world. It goes clear back to the biblical days. Sad. Very sad.

Last night I saw a rather interesting documentary on Malignant Narcissism with Antisocial Personality traits and IMO it is 100% fitting of Casey Anthony! I called my sister who is the head of a psych unit and assistant to the professor to discuss. She also thought this of CA.

Here is a look at some of the info:

An absence of conscience, a psychological need for power, and a sense of importance (grandiosity) are often symptomatic of Malignant Narcissism. The malignant narcissist is presented as pathologically grandiose, lacking in conscience and behavioral regulation with characteristic demonstrations of joyful cruelty, and overestimates their abilities and has an excessive need for admiration and affirmation. This may be present to such a degree that it severely damages the person's ability to live a productive or happy life because the traits manifest as severe selfishness and disregard for the needs and feelings of others.

Many features of person's with MN are often ambitious and capable but are unable cope with setbacks, disagreements or criticism. These emotional limitations along with a complete lack of empathy make it difficult for such individuals to work well with others and to build a successful career.

Pathologically narcissim is the art of deception, and the narcissist presents a False-Self managing all their social interactions through this concocted fictional construct. People often find themselves involved with a narcissist (emotionally, in business, or otherwise) before they have a chance to discover their true nature. ( I think this is what happened to Jesse and Amy!)


A pervasive pattern of grandiosity (in fantasy or behavior), need for admiration, need for excessive attention, and lack of empathy, beginning by early adulthood and present in a variety of contexts, as indicated by five (or more) of the following

1. has a grandiose sense of self-importance
2. is preoccupied with fantasies of unlimited success, power, brilliance, beauty, or ideal love
3. believes that he or she is "special" and unique
4. requires excessive admiration
5. has a sense of entitlement, i.e., unreasonable expectations of especially favorable treatment or automatic compliance with his or her expectations.
6. is interpersonally exploitative, i.e., takes advantage of others to achieve his or her own ends.
7. lacks empathy and is unwilling to recognize or identify with the feelings and needs of others.
8. is often envious of others or believes others are envious of him or her
9. shows arrogant, haughty behaviors or attitudes
10. contemptuous of human beings, and to be completely without conscience

IMO this is completely fitting of Casey and I am wondering if the defense will have her evaluated by a psychiatrist or psychologist of their own at some point in time. Would it not be beneficial? I found this fascinating and more in line with Casey's presentation than any type of DD!

Anais said:

[/LIST]IMO this is completely fitting of Casey and I am wondering if the defense will have her evaluated by a psychiatrist or psychologist of their own at some point in time. Would it not be beneficial? I found this fascinating and more in line with Casey's presentation than any type of DD!

Click to expand...

I agree 100% with that as a potential "diagnosis", however, when you say would it not be beneficial...I ask, "to what"? A defense? The answer is no. Many people walk this earth with that as a diagnosis of their own personality disorder, however, that doesn't "cause" one to commit murder. It very well may explain why no visible remorse, and why she is so indifferent...however, it is not a defense for murder. Again. It goes back to the "did the perp know right from wrong". There is no getting Casey out of this. Not in my opinion. She has shown far too much evidence of cognitive thinking during the 31 days that Caylee was "missing". I don't believe any diagnosis will release her from a guilty verdict...except one, which I will explain in the next post. Just my opinion.

Back in the "early days" of Caylee missing, I wrote the family. It was because I read in the investigative report that in early January 08 she was taken to the hospital with a seizure. Nothing more was ever said about it. My question, rather comments...was for the family to have a full MRI done on Casey. There is a slight possibility...albeit, extreme, but possible if she has a brain tumor affecting her "right from wrong" part of her brain...which would be the ventromedial prefrontal cortex...that could explain her actions.

I had a patient years ago that came to the ER handcuffed to the railings of the hospital bed with two guards. This young man (34) was aprox 6"7" and literally about 300 lbs of pure muscle. A football physique. He was dying of a massive brain tumor. However, it should be known that prior to his prison sentence this man was a completely normal human being. NEVER in trouble, a working family man and father/husband. His wife expressed he started having some depressive episodes and seemed to get quite agitated for no reason and this was unlike him. It was not until he brutally raped a young woman and was arrested that they discovered the tumor, after trials and after incarceration. So, in essence, if we are looking at possible scenario's that could cause Casey to do what she did...that could be one of them.

Again, it was never stated as to why she had that seizure nor what tests may have been done in the hospital. It was a friend that took her. It could have been from drinking, drugs and or not eating, etc. And not anything as serious as a brain tumor. But it is a thought that should be ruled out. For the family's sakes.

concentric said:

I have been lambasted on here for even mentioning the word: psychotic, and asked if I ever even spoke to someone who is psychotic???

Someone I know, who was able to function in society was prescribed anti-psychotic meds because he was abusive. Now, why the anti-psychotics?

Click to expand...

Anti-psychotic drugs are sometimes given to people who have anger issues, it doesn't mean the person is psychotic.

Whisperer said:

I can certainly understand why people use the word "psychotic". If they are not in the mental health field, most people use the term casually.

Click to expand...

Very true. Fifteen years ago I had a nervous breakdown as the result of a lot of tough things which were going on in my life at the time. The drugs I was given caused me to become briefly psychotic. I checked myself into the hospital for a few days, because I had young children and felt it wasn't safe for me to be around them. I know what it feels like to be psychotic and it isn't fun. I didn't feel like going out partying with my friends. You couldn't get a smile on my face if you paid me a million dollars. It is one of the most terrifying things I have ever gone through and it makes me a little upset when people refer to KC as psychotic. She is not psychotic.

Sorry about the life story.

Lavanda Dolce said:

I agree 100% with that as a potential "diagnosis", however, when you say would it not be beneficial...I ask, "to what"? A defense? The answer is no. Many people walk this earth with that as a diagnosis of their own personality disorder, however, that doesn't "cause" one to commit murder. It very well may explain why no visible remorse, and why she is so indifferent...however, it is not a defense for murder. Again. It goes back to the "did the perp know right from wrong". There is no getting Casey out of this. Not in my opinion. She has shown far too much evidence of cognitive thinking during the 31 days that Caylee was "missing". I don't believe any diagnosis will release her from a guilty verdict...except one, which I will explain in the next post. Just my opinion.

Click to expand...

Bolded by me respectfully.

Lavanda Dolce actually this is what I'd meant to begin with. Not beneficial in any other way except for her defense team to be able to better understand casey and possibly better able to defend her. Does that make sense? I also agree that Malignant Narcissism is not a defense for murder. My whole point is when you look at all of Casey's persona and traits it is 100% consistent with her as a person. Regardless many people have thiis and do not go on to murder people. However it does explain her callousness, lack of empathy, all of it imo!

In essence I agree with your post above.

OneLostGrl said:

I agree, some of us have and that is how we know what Psychosis looks like. It is not easily mistaken for anything else. I explained the symptoms (offered links and all, I believe) and how none of them are present in Casey several pages back and I believe in the second thread as well when it was brought up. I honestly just don't see how anyone can even think they see it in Casey and I admit, I get a bit frustrated with the fact that it keeps coming up as if it is a viable option. I am sorry if I hurt your feelings while expressing my frustration I did not mean to.

I have Rapid cycling Bipolar I with mixed and psychotic episodes, that is no secret- I would never attempt to demean anyone that is mentally ill because I know how it feels. I try to offer facts, symptoms, traits and personal stories to help others better understand mental illness (I'd love to see a day when everyone is informed so they can spot the symptoms early and get treatment before things get out of hand.. the earlier one is treated the better chance they have of some day having a normal life) and I just feel that every time someone says Casey may be Psychotic it just tosses mis-information and stigma back onto Psychosis.

Anyway, again, I am sorry I hurt your feelings I really truly did not mean to.

Click to expand...

OneLostGrl I truly thank you from the bottom of my heart for your post, and also for so very openly sharing with us all. It is wonderful to know that I am not alone sometimes. I have long had much difficulty due to the stigma attached to this very subject with sharing my own diagnosis's and experiences. It is others like you that truly help people like me to know that we are not outcasts of society!

Have a very Merry Christmas!

tiredofthis said:

Very true. Fifteen years ago I had a nervous breakdown as the result of a lot of tough things which were going on in my life at the time. The drugs I was given caused me to become briefly psychotic. I checked myself into the hospital for a few days, because I had young children and felt it wasn't safe for me to be around them. I know what it feels like to be psychotic and it isn't fun. I didn't feel like going out partying with my friends. You couldn't get a smile on my face if you paid me a million dollars. It is one of the most terrifying things I have ever gone through and it makes me a little upset when people refer to KC as psychotic. She is not psychotic.

Sorry about the life story.

Click to expand...

Thank you for sharing here, tiredofthis.:blowkiss: Now I see why I always love your thoughts and posts, as I had a similar experience a few years back as well. After 2 unexpected deaths in my immediate family within 16 days of each other, and going through a nasty divorce! On top of that I am a nurse, with a stressful position, and the pain of ending up sick and broken in the very hospital that I work in compounded my illness! I was completely terrified and wanted to ball up in a corner and just wither away! I couldn't even walk myself to the bathroom, much less go out and party like like a rock star! I too know what psychosis feels like, and Casey has never ever been psychotic!

I won't even get into the spiritual side of this case. However, I'll only say that I firmly believe that some are plain old evil. And only Divine Intervention can change the workings of evil. As long as Casey surrounds herself with so many like minded peopleas herself, chances for Divine Change are nill.

sweetmop said:

Thank you for sharing here, tiredofthis.:blowkiss: Now I see why I always love your thoughts and posts, as I had a similar experience a few years back as well. After 2 unexpected deaths in my immediate family within 16 days of each other, and going through a nasty divorce! On top of that I am a nurse, with a stressful position, and the pain of ending up sick and broken in the very hospital that I work in compounded my illness! I was completely terrified and wanted to ball up in a corner and just wither away! I couldn't even walk myself to the bathroom, much less go out and party like like a rock star! I too know what psychosis feels like, and Casey has never ever been psychotic!

I won't even get into the spiritual side of this case. However, I'll only say that I firmly believe that some are plain old evil. And only Divine Intervention can change the workings of evil. As long as Casey surrounds herself with so many like minded peopleas herself, chances for Divine Change are nill.

Click to expand...

:blowkiss: I love your posts too.

I'm sorry you had to go through hell and I know it was hell. It is something I wouldn't wish upon my worst enemy let alone a kind and caring person.

I believe there is evil in this world and at the moment KC reeks of it.

If KC had a brain tumor she would display other physical symptoms of it
I would think & the seizures would become more frequent and severe

Often we want a cause, a reason for someone to behave so callously towards others . In describing Malignant Narcissism its difficult to
get across how lack of empathy grandiosity and no moral compass
allows them to do horrible things to the people close to them. The leap
from thought to deed isnt far which is what makes them dangerous
Casey has no normal feelings towards the people around her . They
are divided into two groups useful or not useful .
Caylee was a threat . She was talking more and more
she was going to expose KC. She was also keeping her from spending time with TonE , intolerable to a narcissist . In her mind all she did was neutralize the threat , remove the obstacle. Once done she never thought about it again . By the time she was in blockbuster
wrapped around TonE, Caylee was already a faint distant memory .
Narcissists need enablers and because they need them they hate them
Narcissist used to be called meglamania - its distressing to the narcissist who believes they are unique and special to need such ordinary
pathetic creatures. They are consumed with fanasty greed and jealousy. They want it all - all the attention , all the resources . KC believed she was entitled to be catered to , to be taken care of . There are two excellent sites that explain Narcissism in laymans terms
one is " narcissists suck" and the other is "what makes narcissist tick"
you can find both through google searches .

sharpar said:

If KC had a brain tumor she would display other physical symptoms of it
I would think & the seizures would become more frequent and severe

Often we want a cause, a reason for someone to behave so callously towards others . In describing Malignant Narcissism its difficult to
get across how lack of empathy grandiosity and no moral compass
allows them to do horrible things to the people close to them. The leap
from thought to deed isnt far which is what makes them dangerous
Casey has no normal feelings towards the people around her . They
are divided into two groups useful or not useful .
Caylee was a threat . She was talking more and more
she was going to expose KC. She was also keeping her from spending time with TonE , intolerable to a narcissist . In her mind all she did was neutralize the threat , remove the obstacle. Once done she never thought about it again . By the time she was in blockbuster
wrapped around TonE, Caylee was already a faint distant memory .
Narcissists need enablers and because they need them they hate them
Narcissist used to be called meglamania - its distressing to the narcissist who believes they are unique and special to need such ordinary
pathetic creatures. They are consumed with fanasty greed and jealousy. They want it all - all the attention , all the resources . KC believed she was entitled to be catered to , to be taken care of . There are two excellent sites that explain Narcissism in laymans terms
one is " narcissists suck" and the other is "what makes narcissist tick"
you can find both through google searches .

Click to expand...

I am not seeking a reason or explanation for how Casey could kill her precious daughter. I had a family member who was an extreme narcissit (my uncle, mom's brother) and Casey so fits the profile. My uncle did many of the very same behaviors as she does except for murder, that I know of. For me it does however explain her total and complete lack of emotion for any other person besides herself. Yes she is not just cold, she is also callous beyond belief and calculating. MN sure does fit like a worn old shoe imo.

A website I find imformative & helpful is a site called, "Murder Victims.com" This is for people who are lost in the pain of a loved one murdering a loved one. There is a discussion board for murder in the family. I'm sure this site may become helpful to the A family in the future. If any on W/S forumn are suffering from a loved one taken by murder this site will be so helpful.