AL - Karen Shahan, 53, murdered, Homewood, 23 July 2013 #2

New Posts

IHAVENOCLUE said:
Oh yes... Scissors may have been a weapon too...

:waitasec:
Click to expand...

I suspect the weapon was a good pair of dressmaker's shears. She sewed the costumes for the church plays so I assume she would have a pair at home in her sewing basket. The murder could have washed them off and put them back in the basket. :moo:
 
Sulamith said:
I suspect the weapon was a good pair of dressmaker's shears. She sewed the costumes for the church plays so I assume she would have a pair at home in her sewing basket. The murder could have washed them off and put them back in the basket. :moo:
Click to expand...

Good theory! :thumb:
 
Sulamith said:
I suspect the weapon was a good pair of dressmaker's shears. She sewed the costumes for the church plays so I assume she would have a pair at home in her sewing basket. The murder could have washed them off and put them back in the basket. :moo:
Click to expand...

Yes.
Her sewing/dressmaker scissors would be expected to have her DNA on them, so not a fishy finding.
If, tested for blood and some of hers was found on them,
possibly there would be plausible explanations, not involving her death..

In sewing projects, easy to stick yourself w a needle, straight pin, even scissors, and even after wiping,
still leave enough blood for DNA to be detected, imo.

Maybe not so much, for blood w his DNA on her scissors, imo.
But maybe he sewed costumes for church plays as well?

JM2cts and I could be wrong.
 
I think that is because we have not seen the probable cause statement yet. The arrest warrant was very brief.
 
al66pine said:
Yes.
Her sewing/dressmaker scissors would be expected to have her DNA on them, so not a fishy finding.
If, tested for blood and some of hers was found on them,
possibly there would be plausible explanations, not involving her death..

In sewing projects, easy to stick yourself w a needle, straight pin, even scissors, and even after wiping,
still leave enough blood for DNA to be detected, imo.

Maybe not so much, for blood w his DNA on her scissors, imo.
But maybe he sewed costumes for church plays as well?

JM2cts and I could be wrong.
Click to expand...

BBM According to WS poster pastorpk, who is a verified insider, RS also made the costumes. The post by pastorpk is in the 1st thread, #911.

I don't know how to quote a post from a closed thread.

I hope LE has strong evidence..I am a bit worried.
 
Has it ever been mentioned where or not K knew about RS's boyfriend in Europe?
To me that is plenty of motive right there. Especially since his trip to Europe was supposedly for a ' mission trip'.
That makes me think he planned on having church blessings/ resources/ funding, etc.
If K knew that he was seeing anyone of any gender there and was going to expose that, then his trip would be
cancelled or he would have to foot the bill himself, which I'm guessing he was not able to do.
I have not followed as closely as some, so if any of the above is not true, please correct me ! Tks
 
Just a quick question...shouldn't this be moved to the "Currently Awaiting Trial" thread? For me, it would be easier to follow...TIA
 
PMLsmom said:
Just a quick question...shouldn't this be moved to the "Currently Awaiting Trial" thread? For me, it would be easier to follow...TIA
Click to expand...

Still waiting for the Grand Jury to come back. I don't think there was a decision regarding a trial and no trial date is set. My guess is they are waiting to hear from the GJ. So let's wait until we hear something.
 
SCHMAE said:
Has it ever been mentioned where or not K knew about RS's boyfriend in Europe?
To me that is plenty of motive right there. Especially since his trip to Europe was supposedly for a ' mission trip'.
That makes me think he planned on having church blessings/ resources/ funding, etc.
If K knew that he was seeing anyone of any gender there and was going to expose that, then his trip would be
cancelled or he would have to foot the bill himself, which I'm guessing he was not able to do.
I have not followed as closely as some, so if any of the above is not true, please correct me ! Tks
Click to expand...

The "boyfriend" motive was revealed only by the prosecutors at the time of the bond hearing. It was revealed that the "boyfriend" was made known only through the 3000 e-mails found in RS' computer. No one knows for sure if KS knew about it.

These pastors can hide anything from their wives on their computers...because their wives trust them...with no reservations. I was one of those wives, but I found out that every time I walked into the room, my ex seemed to bring up the desktop really fast. He had been having an affair for years.

KS had no reason to question RS' secret life, especially 2 days after he had just finished Vacation Bible School at their church. She had trusted him for years. That had been the way they had lived their lives for years...as the Children's Pastor & family at a church...I knew them well when they first started out at another church.

Frankly, no, I don't think she knew anything about the boyfriend...it was just time for him to get the job (murder) done, so that he COULD live with his boyfriend.

Don't ask me WHY some of these pastors have dual lives:liar:...I haven't yet found the answer for that one...but they do!!
DTLJ
 
Karen has been on my mind a lot recently. My mind keeps going back to what Karen went through and what her poor mind was probably trying to comprehend what/why this was happening to her(if in fact its her husband that killed her).. And one issue that keeps coming to mind is the way in which I perceive Richard's alibi to have been constructed that IMO, leaves me with no doubt about the level of premeditation.

What I mean is that Richard left town on the morning of the day in question, supposedly to go visit their sons, both out of state.. As we also know Karen worked that day at Hobby Lobby til around 8pm in her closing the store.. IMO Karen was completely of the mindset that her husband had long since left and was no longer in town.. IMO his alibi of having left town will end up being a very important, and defining nail driven into his proverbial coffin..

It truly makes me wonder how the horrific scenario played out with her believing him to not even be in town, not even in the state for that matter..so when she returned home from work that evening after 8pm, and at whatever point, and however he carried out the murder..IMO it would have taken her by absolute total surprise..IMO, her mind reeling would have yet been only another factor playing to the favor of her murderer.

IMO it was critical that Karen be fully believing he'd left town, and that she had no idea that he was still in the Homewood area.. If she'd somehow found out at some point prior to her being murdered, that Richard had not left town, and was in fact still in the Homewood area, Richard's alibi would have completely imploded due to Karen having the knowledge of his having not yet left Homewood, therefor leaving open the possibility that she could have shared this critical piece of info with anyone. Thus collapsing all of Richard's thoroughly planned alibi.

IMO, its this particular aspect of the case that IMO, definitively produces the level of premeditation in Karen's murder. I believe its Richard's alibi that is going to end up being a key piece that indicates the extreme level of premeditation that was present, rather than this being a second degree type murder like crime of passion. The fact that the alibi was constructed in such a way that amounts to a very large window of time being present between the time of Richard's "supposed" departure from Homewood and the long period of time that elapsed til Karen's murder was carried out. That's a window of time in the range of +12 hours(and yet as we know premeditation by the legal standard can be a mere fraction of a second of forethought). A very extended amount of time for his to have at any point along the way having easily, with zero negative impact, changed his mind and not followed through with her murder.

IMO, I strongly believe that this large window of time will be of huge detriment to his defense, especially since its fact that at any point in that huge window of time all the way til he revealed his presence to Karen(at some point well after 8pm that night) at any point in all that time he could have very easily, with zero negative impact, changed his mind and not murdered Karen.

Just some of the thoughts I had today while thinking about this beautiful woman, and the way in which her life was taken. My apologies for the random, rambling thoughts, I've just had Karen on my mind lately, and today I was thinking about the unbelievable, extended window of opportunity that Richard had available him to have turned back at any point and not followed through with her murder. The way he constructed his alibi IMO, leaves no doubt whatsoever as to the extreme level of premeditation, as well as the extreme determination he had for her life to be permanently extinguished from existing. Jmo.

All just my opinion, and my only desire is to see this beautiful woman, Karen Shahan, to have justice fully served on behalf of having her life so violently stripped from her, and her stripped from the lives of the so very many who love her. My continued prayers for all of those who've been negatively impacted by this kind, caring, beautiful soul having been taken so viciously from this earth.
 
It also could be that RS wore a mask or other item to hide his face and she never even knew it was him - and had she somehow been able to survive the attack she still couldn't have identified him.
 
michmi said:
It also could be that RS wore a mask or other item to hide his face and she never even knew it was him - and had she somehow been able to survive the attack she still couldn't have identified him.
Click to expand...
You know what, you make an excellent point, and one that IMO, could be very, very possible, if not, even likely.

If this murder was in fact premeditated to the degree that I, personally, believe it to be, then it would only make sense that this base was covered as well. I mean I wouldn't be surprised if he did not cover this base by taking necessary precautions in case any number of very possible circumstances arose during the murder that disallowed his ensuring completion(interrupted by neighbor who heard/saw suspicious activity, Karen's ability to escape/thwart the attack, or get a phone call/text out, etc, etc, as the list goes on and on as to the many plausible issues that could very easily arise that would leave Karen with the ability to name her attacker/killer). The reason I say I wouldn't be surprised if he didn't cover this base is due to narcissistic belief that all would go as he planned, and he wouldn't/couldn't be deterred in any way.

So, for me this could go either way as to whether he did actually take this precaution. While IMO, the level of premeditation would definitely allow for these exact type of precautions to be taken, but its also equally possible that narcissism would allow for him not to feel it necessary to take such precautions, IMO.

If indeed well planned, and wanting to ensure all bases covered then I definitely find it very possible that he very well could have taken steps to obscure his identity from Karen, at least initially while she still had the ability to in some way live long enough to ID him.

Excellent point, michmi, that IMO, is very possible.
 
SMOOTH OPERATOR - I've had problems with the amount of time he was supposedly gone and the time of the murder too...and then I have a real problem with his stated "alibi" - his son!
You said..
IMO, I strongly believe that this large window of time will be of huge detriment to his defense, especially since its fact that at any point in that huge window of time all the way til he revealed his presence to Karen(at some point well after 8pm that night) at any point in all that time he could have very easily, with zero negative impact, changed his mind and not murdered Karen.

Just some of the thoughts I had today while thinking about this beautiful woman, and the way in which her life was taken. My apologies for the random, rambling thoughts, I've just had Karen on my mind lately, and today I was thinking about the unbelievable, extended window of opportunity that Richard had available him to have turned back at any point and not followed through with her murder. The way he constructed his alibi IMO, leaves no doubt whatsoever as to the extreme level of premeditation, as well as the extreme determination he had for her life to be permanently extinguished from existing. Jmo.

I totally agree with your sentiments, but I'd like to look at this in a different angle. What if he meticulously orchestrated the whole entire murder, but never laid a hand on her...a "murder for hire"? Oddly, he left town without his wife (KS had to go to work that day) and he had just finished his VBS for the year...(whew!), well, then if he was really into this other relationship as the prosecutors claim, why hasn't the finger been pointed at this other male person...who might have been the murderer...and RS possibly had hired him or somone to do this.

You see, why would he want to be with his kids at that very moment? He would have wanted to be there with them, so that when they heard the "news", then all of them would be there together...to receive that dreadful news that Mom had been murdered.

I knew RS. I knew KS. I'm not putting this murder past his capability, knowing what I know about sinister ministers, but knowing the personality of RS, I just don't think he could bring himself to pull it off with what took place. And with the "alibi" and the time lapse, and ESPECIALLY WHO HE WAS WITH...HIS SON...well, i'm just looking at this in reality.

His "alibi" (like you) has really haunted me to the point that I wanted to know every detail as to how the NEWS was told to them when the church members revealed it to RS...and his son, and I've always wanted to know how he and his son reacted. What was his facial expression - if in fact he was the one who was behind the murder OR committed the murder?

And then, to go even deeper...did he orchestrate it to the point where he was the "shocked dad" in front of his adult child, so that "he couldn't have been the murderer...or known anything about the murder."...all the while, knowing the horrible truth that the "deed was done"..."now I'm free to move on with my life and no one will ever find out that I was ever behind this!!" I never knew him to lie, but yet, people change...for their own ways, their own wants, and when they want it bad enough, they'll stop at nothing.

I think he chose his alibi very wisely...very, very wisely!!

You see, this way, he can actually say..."that he didn't kill her...and be perfectly right...and some would believe him because "he was a children's pastor". I believe RS may have been working directly with someone in order kill her...and she was a beautiful person - inside and out.
Just my take on this...after thinking about it for several months...knowing what others have plotted in like circumstances.

DTLJ

Ok...I've been wanting to get that out for quite some time now...especially the reaction of their son.
 
Just wondering on this Sunday morning- is he allowed to go to church on his house arrest ankle bracelet? Does he have the cojones to do so?
 
I wish that pastorpk (verified insider) would come back and post any insider info he might know.
 
What has happened to Pastor Shahan? I can't find anything current in MSN about what is going on with him. Surely the GJ isn't that far behind that they haven't met on his case yet. IDK

Curious minds want to know?

MOO
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

DNASolves

Who is Escambia County John Doe (1989)?

Members online

... and 176 more.
Total: 4,148 (members: 177, guests: 3,971)

Online statistics

Members online
177
Guests online
3,972
Total visitors
4,149
Totals may include hidden visitors.

Forum statistics

Threads
591,535
Messages
17,954,173
Members
228,525
Latest member
Lefer
Back
Top