GUILTY Australia - Kiesha Weippeart, 6, Mount Druitt, NSW, 18 July 2010 - #2

Bluesky#1 said:

I am surprised they announced Kiesha was murdered on Tuesday, July 20th, 2010. I thought because she has been deceased for 9 months, an examination of her remains would not be able to determine the day she died.

<snip>
Her mother, Kristi Anne Abrahams, 28, and step-father, Robert Smith, 31, were charged on Good Friday with murdering the little girl on July 20 last year.

This is a snippet from a report that was released shortly after Kiesha was reported missing by her mother:
"Police say they are now investigating reports provided by a female neighbour who claims she saw the young girl on their street on July 23 or 24."

http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/kiesha-more-tests-needed-on-remains-20110428-1dxdv.html

The flat Kiesha's family occupied has 2 bedrooms and a media report said Kiesha had her own bedroom which was located near the front door. AFAIK, LE never confirmed she had her own bedroom but it seems more plausible Kiesha shared a bedroom with her younger sister.

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They never named that neighbour . I wondered if it had been AA who made the claim....and if it was, will she back out of that statement.
The date of 20th July as DOD is what makes me think they have an informant, since it appears they had that date set in place even before the remains were collected/examined.
Pretty sure it was confirmed that Kiesha had the room all to herself....by LE and K&R.

butwhatif? said:

Have some tissues on stand-by for this one....
A grieving dad's final tribute to Kiesha Abrahams [/B]

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/na...-kiesha-abrahams/story-e6frf7l6-1226045307434

Wow! The last 9 months have taken such a physical toll on Chris. He looks so fragile.

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Considering Kiesha&#8217;s biological father was absent from her life for years, it&#8217;s good to see him finally being supportive of her, even if it&#8217;s in death. I agree with him and his mother, her name should be listed as Weippeart, because that is her name.

Bluesky#1 said:

[/B]
Is this the area in which Kiesha was found?

A psychic has also described to police a vision of Kiesha in bushland behind Amelia Way at Bidwell. The bush is a dumping spot with couches and old clothes littered throughout the grass.

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Kiesha&#8217;s remains were found at the back of the International Radio Transmitting Station at Shane&#8217;s Park. That&#8217;s something like 7 &#8211; 8 km away from the area of land behind Amelia Way at Bidwell. That&#8217;s a bit of a difference &#8211; that&#8217;s a few suburbs away. (The land behind Amelia Way is, for the most part, privately owned, although it&#8217;s hard to tell that from the satellite map. Quite a few years ago the state government bought long avenues of land out there for the construction of the tollway orbital, which never did happen.)

butwhatif? said:

They never named that neighbour . I wondered if it had been AA who made the claim....and if it was, will she back out of that statement.
The date of 20th July as DOD is what makes me think they have an informant, since it appears they had that date set in place even before the remains were collected/examined.
Pretty sure it was confirmed that Kiesha had the room all to herself....by LE and K&R.

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Yeah, I&#8217;ve wondered if AA was that neighbour too.
It&#8217;ll be interesting to see who the informant is. The thought crossed my mind it could very well be Rob. Anyway, yes, it certainly looks like someone&#8217;s been talking to the police about the specifics of Kiesha&#8217;s murder.
My heart goes out to poor Kiesha. R.I.P. little darling.

butwhatif? said:

They never named that neighbour . I wondered if it had been AA who made the claim....and if it was, will she back out of that statement.
The date of 20th July as DOD is what makes me think they have an informant, since it appears they had that date set in place even before the remains were collected/examined.
Pretty sure it was confirmed that Kiesha had the room all to herself....by LE and K&R.

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You&#8217;re right BWI, the police didn&#8217;t name the neighbor but they did say it was a female. There are however conflicting reports on what this neighbor saw.

"A female neighbour saw Kiesha with a relative near her street, Woodstock Avenue in Mount Druitt on July 23 or 24 and another report said a female neighbor saw Kiesha playing outside on their street July 23 or 24."

Other neighbors told police they had not seen Kiesha since Mother&#8217;s Day, May 9th, which means they hadn't seen Kiesha for approximately 2 months!

The neighbor Kristi went to visit upstairs was a male. IMO Kristi paid him a visit to find out if he heard the fighting and screaming that occurred the night she was murdered and whether he would disclose this information to the police. His only comments were that he hadn&#8217;t seen the little girl for awhile and Kristi seemed fine. I wonder if he is withholding information from investigators.

Kiesha's grandmother, Robert's mother, said she last saw Kiesha on July 7 when the little girl visited her newborn brother in hospital so she didn't lie to protect her son and daughter-in-law.

Kiesha attended a family birthday party four weeks before she went missing which would have been near the end of June, just before Kristi gave birth.

Kiesha attended school for only a handful of days during this her first year of school. Kiesha was enrolled in a playgroup for indigenous children about two years ago, but attended only 12 days.

Detectives interviewed western Sydney man, Albert Lafaele, after he claimed he saw Mr. Smith punching Kiesha outside the Hebersham Friendly Grocer store two or three weeks ago. "I was shocked. I walked past a white car and I saw this man whacking his child in the face," said Mr Lafaele, who runs weekend markets next to the supermarket."The girl was kicking and screaming, so I stopped in front of the car and told the man to hit me instead, which gave Kiesha a chance to jump out of the car."

Because this witness said Robert was driving a white car, I assumed it belonged to R&K, but perhaps it belonged to Kristi's brother? If R&K did take a taxi to the location where they buried Kiesha's remains, I wonder if they placed the suitcase in the trunk of the car and whether LE located the driver and tested the vehicle for body fluids?

If Kiesha was murdered on Tuesday, July 20, 2010, R&K waited 11 days to report her missing.

The reason Kiesha had her own bedroom in MO was to prevent her stepsister from witnessing the ongoing abuse R&K inflicted upon her.

An analysis of the statements made by Rob and Kristi indicate they committed this crime IMO.

Will details of the trial be released to the public BWI?

butwhatif? said:

Have some tissues on stand-by for this one....

A grieving dad's final tribute to Kiesha Abrahams



http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/na...-kiesha-abrahams/story-e6frf7l6-1226045307434

Wow! The last 9 months have taken such a physical toll on Chris. He looks so fragile.

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He sure does BWI but considering what he has been going through, I am not in the least bit surprised. Both of his children that he had with Kristi died under suspicious circumstances and Kiesha was taken to hospital after she received a viscous bite on her shoulder when she was very young. Kiesha was also apprehended from her mother for a short period of time and then returned to her.

Hopefully now that Kiesha has been found, he will find peace and his life will return to "normal".

<snipped>
http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/collapsed-dad-rushed-to-hospital-20100807-11pcg.html#ixzz1KpLKLR00

THE father of missing six-year-old Kiesha Abrahams was taken to hospital yesterday after collapsing at home and vomiting blood, as tension over the child's whereabouts became unbearable for her family.

And police revealed last night they were investigating a female neighbour seeing Kiesha with a relative near her street, Woodstock Avenue in Mount Druitt, on July 23 or 24.

An ambulance was called yesterday to the Tregear home of Kiesha's father Chris Weippeart, a diabetic who recently had a toe amputated, after he collapsed into the arms of his brother Matthew.

''I walked in and he just collapsed in my arms,'' said Matthew, a nightclub bouncer from the Gold Coast who had come to offer his support.

''He hasn't been sleeping &#8230; he hasn't left the house because of the TV cameras out the front. People have been twisting his words.''

Mr Weippeart's mother, Elizabeth Weippeart, said her son was on a drip and hospital staff said his blood pressure was low.

Mr. Weippeart, who has had minimal contact with Kiesha since she was a toddler, was interviewed by police on Wednesday. His home in Colbeck Avenue was searched and DNA samples were taken last week.

<snipped>
http://www.news.com.au/national/wil...ms/story-e6frfkvr-1225900375252#ixzz1KpGI7bom

Police said they had been told of allegations that Kiesha's father, Christopher Weippeart, pointed a gun at his daughter, her half-sister, Brianna, and Mr Smith, last month.

Kylie Marshall, a friend of Kiesha's mother, told the Herald the gun allegations had been reported to police only after the child's disappearance.

"Four weeks ago the father rode past on a bike when Robbie was out hanging the clothes on the line with the two girls, Brianna and Kiesha, and pointed a gun at them," she said.

But a spokesman for Mr Weippeart said he was at Nepean Hospital at the time, having his toe amputated. "We don't want a trial by media; we've heard these allegations," he said.

FYI, &#8216;The Golden Compass' is a film about rescuing kidnapped children in a parallel universe so perhaps R&B got their ideas to stage a kidnapping from this film.

Claiming Kiesha slept in a room by herself by the front door makes it easier for the family to spin this theory. Kristi doesn't remember if they locked the front door before they went to bed on this particular night.

<snipped>
http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/little-gi...for-answers-20100806-11oii.html#ixzz1KpIdTGzY

Kiesha&#8217;s stepfather, Robert Smith, said he last saw Kiesha when they watched a movie, The Golden Compass, on Saturday night.

Ms Abrahams says Kiesha went missing from the Mount Druitt district flat some time after 9.30 pm on Saturday, when, she says, the family finished watching The Golden Compass, a film about the rescuing of kidnapped children in a parallel universe, and she put her eldest child to bed.

<snipped>
http://nqr.farmonline.com.au/news/m...here-is-kieshas-body/1905968.aspx?storypage=1

Police are refusing to confirm reports they told Kiesha Abrahams's stepfather to take them to her body.

Robert Smith told News Ltd detectives "got tough" with him during an interview on Wednesday night, with police asking him to "take them to the body".

Mr. Smith told News Ltd that they asked him to ''lead us to her body'' and said they would help with counseling if he co-operated. He said there was ''no way in the world'' he would have hurt Kiesha. He also said that police had not asked Ms Abrahams about a body.

Kiesha has been listed as missing since Saturday night with an extensive search of nearby homes, bushland and dams finding no trace of the six-year-old.

Mr. Smith said he believes police have labeled him the key suspect in her disappearance.
"Absolutely, they think I did it," he told the Daily Telegraph.

"They said 'lead us to her body' and that sort of thing. It was pretty tough."

Mr. Smith denies having anything to do with Kiesha's disappearance.

butwhatif? said:

Help! I can't find any links anywhere that state that B and L were removed from K&R's custody prior to this happening.

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As I was reading through the threads, I found a link in case you still need it. Initially when you click on the link it says "blank page", but after a few seconds the article appears.

http://mt-druitt-standard.whereilive.com.au/news/story/kiesha-abrahams-case-breakthrough/
<snipped>

&#8220;Det Insp Oxford confirmed the couple&#8217;s other children were removed by officers from the Department of Community Services earlier this week.&#8221;

I found the statement the upstairs neighbour gave to Police regarding screams he heard at 6 am the morning Kiesha was reported missing very interesting. This is likely the same neighbor Kristi went to visit with her son before she reported Kiesha "missing".

Since LE believe Kiesha was murdered in her home between July 20-27, that means the screams their neighbor heard at 6 am on July 31 WERE FAKED and this couple were indeed awake long before Kristi called the Police around 9-10 am.

Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - Found Deceased Australia - Kiesha Abrahams, 6, Sydney, 31 July 2010 - #2

butwhatif? said:

Has anyone else heard any mention of the alleged remains location being at/next to the shooting range? Or are they still sticking with the word 'reserve'?

http://www.bpc.com.au/

^ Click on the 'How to find us' tab to see the map showing it's location of Freya Crescent where the shallow grave was said to be found.

Rest in Sweet Peace Princess Kiesha and thank you to all the police and detectives who never gave up on finding you.

ETA- snip from an old article:

Read more: http://www.news.com.au/national/pol...th/story-e6frfkvr-1225901910111#ixzz1KEvpT0Gi

Could this have been an attempt to point the blame on Chris in anticipation of the remains eventually being found at a shooting range?

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Good point BWI. If that was their intention, I'm glad their plan backfired.

Thank you for pointing out the location of Kiesha's remains.

peeples said:

Lets not forget the other child they had who may have died at the hands of these monsters as well.

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Peeples, Chris was the father of Kristi's firstborn child who died from crib death and the couple were still together when he died. Kristi stayed with Chris's mom awhile after she gave birth and shortly after Kristi returned home, the baby died.

Robert came into Kristi's and Kiesha's life after they separated and AFAIK the 2 children who were living in the home when Kiesha disappeared are Kristi's and Robert's.

I have read in a few articles that 36 reports were made to police regarding Keisha's abuse. Does anyone know if there is truth to this? Would those reports have been passed on to CPS or were they made to CPS to begin with and it is being mis-reported? 36 seems like an awful lot to not have had anything more happen.

butwhatif? said:

<respectfully snipped BM>

Anyone else wondering if maybe Kristi has turned on Rob and will try the battered wife route?
Kristi was recovering from a c-section, right? She could claim she wasn't physically capable of killing Kiesha, loading her in a suitcase and then into a taxi, or digging a grave....That Rob did it all and forced her to watch, telling her he would do the same to her or the other kids if she told anyone.

ETA: JMO

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You present a very compelling argument BWI. I think it depends on what evidence prosecutors are allowed to include at their trial. If none of the prior abuse allegations and Kiesha's medical records are allowed in, a defense of Battered Wife Syndrome may indeed work for Kristi because R&K were the only adults present when Kiesha died so it is Kristi's word against Rob's. There is a witness who saw Rob beating Kiesha in the car outside his store weeks before she died, which if allowed in as evidence at a trial, would certainly bolster Kristi's claim that Rob killed Kiesha not her. There are friends and community members who saw Kristi as a loving and caring mother to Kiesha. On the other hand, there are numerous reports from friends and family about the way Kiesha was being ill-treated so we'll have to wait and see. It is hard to know if the evidence LE confiscated from various locations can prove who killed Kiesha.

Because the COD for the infant who died was ruled a crib death and the case will not be reopened, this incident won&#8217;t be allowed in as evidence IMO.

KPMcLovin said:

I have read in a few articles that 36 reports were made to police regarding Keisha's abuse. Does anyone know if there is truth to this? Would those reports have been passed on to CPS or were they made to CPS to begin with and it is being mis-reported? 36 seems like an awful lot to not have had anything more happen.

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I've been wondering the same thing..the media have been saying police reports, but a lot of people are saying those are the DOCS (CPS) reports.

FWIW It does seem to match the number of DOCS reports that were reported by someone allegedly connected to the case in FB postings some time last year.

Kristi did lose custody of Kiesha for some months after the bite incident- but I think K cleaned up her act a bit (or at least made it appear that she had), and Kiesha was returned to her.

Bluesky#1 said:

Will details of the trial be released to the public BWI?

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RSBM- I suspect that very little will be released to the public which is why I hope that I'll be able to attend the trial to get ALL of the details.

Kiesha's mother and stepfather face court


The mother and stepfather of Kiesha Abrahams will face court charged with the six-year-old's murder.

A post-mortem examination was unable to determine whether remains discovered last Friday in bushland in Shalvey, northwest of the family's home, are those of the little girl.

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I was a bit taken aback by this. I thought the PM was to determine COD and TOD, rather than identification.
I guess they could have been looking at dental records or medical files for comparison, and there wasn't enough found to compare????

The spokesman couldn't confirm media reports that the results of the DNA testing would be available in a few days, saying only police wanted them "sooner rather than later".

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http://news.smh.com.au/breaking-new...-verify-bones-are-kieshas-20110427-1dwkt.html

butwhatif? said:

I've been wondering the same thing..the media have been saying police reports, but a lot of people are saying those are the DOCS (CPS) reports.

FWIW It does seem to match the number of DOCS reports that were reported by someone allegedly connected to the case in FB postings some time last year.

Kristi did lose custody of Kiesha for some months after the bite incident- but I think K cleaned up her act a bit (or at least made it appear that she had), and Kiesha was returned to her.

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FYI, here are the links to the documents that confirm Kiesha was once removed from her mother's care and how old Kiesha was when she was bitten. There is nothing stating how old Kiesha was when she was apprehended from her mother and later returned either.

I haven't seen anything to indicate whether Chris Wieppart, Kiesha's biological father, was asked if he and his mother would care for Kiesha during this time.

http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/little-gi...for-answers-20100806-11oii.html#ixzz1KrO7y9db
<snipped>

&#8220;Perhaps so. But Ms Marshall also denies Kiesha's admission to hospital, when she was about 18 months old, for treatment to an adult's bite to her shoulder.
Ms Abrahams was charged with that assault but no conviction was recorded&#8221;.

http://nqr.farmonline.com.au/news/m...here-is-kieshas-body/1905968.aspx?storypage=3
<snipped>

&#8220;The Herald reported yesterday that Kiesha had previously been removed from, and then returned, to her mother.&#8221;

I had missed the news of Kiesha being found and the arrests. Thank you for the updates. I am glad that she's getting justice.

Who would transport a body in a taxi??

Rest in peace, little angel.

butwhatif? said:

-Kristi being closely watched/monitored at Silverwater women's correctional centre
- K&R could get bail at court appearance @ Penrith court on Friday-Autopsy being done tomorrow. (Mon)

http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/close-watch-on-kieshas-mother-20110423-1ds52.html#ixzz1KMWSll8R

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Rob and Kristi were represented by the same lawyer, Alexander Reetov at the Parramatta Bail Court. I wonder how he got involved in this case? I imagine that will change and they will each be appointed their own lawyer especially if Kristi wants to use the Battered Women’s Syndrome as a defense.

Although the couple didn’t request bail, the Registrar Ross Lawton formally refused it meaning they will remain in custody for now.

Kristi is currently under surveillance 24/7 because there is a real fear she may commit suicide so although it was reported they may apply for bail, I doubt they can because if they were released they would likely commit suicide to avoid facing criminal charges or be murdered by angry protesters. They have to remain in custody.

http://www.news.ninemsn.com.au/national/8240284/couple-charged-with-murdering-sydney-girl
<snipped>

The mother and stepfather of Sydney girl Kiesha Abrahams have been refused bail after being charged over her murder.
The matter was briefly mentioned on Friday in Parramatta Bail Court after they were arrested in the early hours of the morning.
Lawyer Alexander Reetov, representing Kristi Anne Abrahams, 28, Robert Terry Smith, 31, told the court neither wanted to appear on screen in the court by video-link.
The pair did not request bail and registrar Ross Lawton formally refused it, meaning they will remain in custody for now.
According to court documents the pair were arrested just after 1am (EST) on Friday on Freya Street at Shalvey, in Sydney's west.
They were taken to Mount Druitt police station and each was later charged with the murder of the child.
Kiesha, who would have turned seven on Friday, was reported missing from her bed at her Mount Druitt home on the morning of August 1 last year.
According to court documents, police allege she was murdered between July 20 and July 27, 2010.
The case will be heard again on April 29 at Penrith Local Court.

http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/close-watch-on-kieshas-mother-20110423-1ds52.html#ixzz1KrpVeLDF
<snipped>

KRISTI Anne Abrahams, who allegedly murdered her six-year-old daughter Kiesha and helped bury her body in a bush grave, is being kept in a ''safe cell'' in a Sydney jail under 24-hour surveillance.
Ms Abrahams, 28, whom her solicitor described as being ''immensely distraught'', is at the Silverwater Women's Correctional Centre near Parramatta.
''She is being closely monitored and observed at all times,'' a Department of Corrective Services spokesman said yesterday.
Ms Abrahams's co-accused, Kiesha's stepfather Robert Smith, is in a cell at the Metropolitan Remand and Reception Centre, the neighboring facility for male prisoners awaiting court appearances.

Murdered girl's mother faces court
Kristi Abrahams appeared at Penrith Local Court via video link, with her hair tied back and dressed in a green prison tracksuit.
She looked teary but composed, her hand covering her mouth.
During the brief appearance Kristi Abrahams answered yes when the Magistrate spoke her name and gave a small wave to her lawyer.
Her co-accused, Kiesha's step-father Robert Smith, was not required to appear.
More...

Murdered girl's mother faces court
Kristi Abrahams appeared at Penrith Local Court via video link, with her hair tied back and dressed in a green prison tracksuit.
She looked teary but composed, her hand covering her mouth.
During the brief appearance Kristi Abrahams answered yes when the Magistrate spoke her name and gave a small wave to her lawyer.
Her co-accused, Kiesha's step-father Robert Smith, was not required to appear.
More...

Angry scenes outside Kiesha court case.

http://news.ninemsn.com.au/video.aspx?videoid=8b80c659-a45c-4362-a218-f7f37017d95e

~Snips~

''My gut told me that they had something to do with it,'' Ms Anderson said, holding a hastily-drawn placard. Penned on the back of an advertisement for longneck beer, the sign read: ''Rot in hell, kid killers.''

Ms Anderson was yesterday organising a petition encouraging life in prison without parole for anyone who kills a child.

The long-running police investigation into Kiesha's disappearance has continued this week. Detectives, including the man in charge of the operation, Detective Inspector Russell Oxford, were seen in the bushland at Shalvey yesterday.


An internal investigation is also under way into leaks from the NSW Police Force to selected media outlets.

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Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/residents...hild-killer-20110429-1e0te.html#ixzz1L3iGrRJW

Okay, so I thought there was a chance that AA had been an informant, but I think the police would be stopping her prejudicial comments to media if she had been.
If AA's gut told her that 'they had something to do with it' then why stand by them at all? :waitasec:

And an internal investigation already? Sheesh....we're never gonna get a chance to know the whole truth of what happened to Kiesha.

butwhatif? said:

~Snips~



Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/residents...hild-killer-20110429-1e0te.html#ixzz1L3iGrRJW

Okay, so I thought there was a chance that AA had been an informant, but I think the police would be stopping her prejudicial comments to media if she had been.
If AA's gut told her that 'they had something to do with it' then why stand by them at all? :waitasec:

And an internal investigation already? Sheesh....we're never gonna get a chance to know the whole truth of what happened to Kiesha.

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Thanks for the update BWI,

I checked today to see if Kiesha’s father had set a date for his daughter's funeral service but didn't find anything.

Are Kristi and Robert allowed visitors?

I wonder if Robert's mother was released from hospital? She was admitted because she started having chest pains after Kristi and Robert were arrested.

Was Jason Smith visiting his brother in jail when he was stopped by the reporter? Did Jason Smith say he was an outcast? (I couldn’t make out what he said to the reporter. ) TIA

Wasn’t it Jason who made a plea for Kiesha’s safe return after she was reported missing? Was the Birthday Party Kiesha attended at his house? Didn't he say the last time he saw her was at the birthday party?

Anyone know what AA meant about a baby house in jail? (I couldn’t understand what she said either.)

How does this reporter know Robert and Kristi are maintaining their innocence? They haven’t been formally charged or entered a plea. Neither has spoken in Court. Kristi held her hand over her mouth when she appeared last Friday by satellite and Robert hasn't had to appear yet.

Anyone know who else may be arrested?......."Rumours of a further arrest have been bandied about over kitchen tables and in the streets of Mount Druitt all week."

I disagree with this statement.....The thousands of western Sydney residents who had rallied to her support when her six-year-old, Kiesha, was reported missing nine months ago have disowned her en masse. A murder charge - over your own child's death - will do that to you.

IMO the support from the community was for Kiesha. Kristi and Robert fled their flat in Mt. Druitt as fast as they could and they isolated themselves from others. Kristi and Robert didn’t attend Kiesha's vigil and she asked people not to judge her - Now sadly we know why. Kristi wrote **** U on her fingernails and made sure everyone noticed when she was in public. The people who supported them afaik were their relatives and the govt agency who paid for their accommodations.

"An internal investigation is also under way into leaks from the NSW Police Force to selected media outlets."...... Is this a problem because it makes it difficult for the accused to get a fair trail?

http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/residents...hild-killer-20110429-1e0te.html#ixzz1L3s059fa