17-yo Teen Trayvon Martin Shot to Death by Neighborhood Watch Captain #7

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jjenny said:
The 911 caller who claims the guy on top was in white t-shirt is not Mary C. After listening to the calls I am pretty sure of that. The voice sounds nothing like Mary C.
Mary C is a different caller and she says nothing about any t-shirts. I am pretty sure Marcy C is the one who says there is a black guy standing.
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You are correct. This is the Mary C call:

http://www.sanfordfl.gov/investigation/911/call6.wav

She describes the guy standing up as a "black guy". I must have gotten her confused with the other caller.
 
flourish said:
Whoo! Whoever earlier recommended watching Lawrence O'Donnel, well thank you:) (HiHater, maybe?) I haven't watched a whole lot of the television coverage but my goodness that interview with GZ's friend was...unmissable, imo.
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Yes, it was a great show. I think Joe Oliver has 0 credibility left. None.

JMO
 
Wise Old Owl said:
We haven't gotten any official confirmation of that have we? That was just part of the leaked info - right? I haven't seen anything official on the gun come out yet.




JMHO
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It was reported here

http://articles.orlandosentinel.com...ing-shot-college-students-single-shell-casing

snipped
Police found a single shell casing at the scene, and when they seized George Zimmerman's handgun, a Kel Tec 9 mm, its magazine was full, according to a source close to the investigation. The only bullet missing was the one in the chamber, the source said.
 
Dr.Fessel said:
Why would Zimmerman be screaming in terror and yelling for help in a terrorized voice then less then a second before he pulled the trigger say in a very plain voice help ?

I think those first screams are from Martin and that last one is from Zimmerman.
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Trayvon's mother has stated, "that's my baby pleading for his life."

IMO a mother knows the sound of her child's cry especially in a desparate situation.
 
So, now we have discussion about hearing two separate voices. The one in the beginning - the loudest and then right before the shot another voice yells help.

I do believe this tape will help tell the story. IF they both yelled, who said what? This type of testing doesn't take that long. They already know exactly what is said and who is saying it - I'll bet the hosue on that.

Now, is that report from the Quantico Audio Testing Department doesn't jive with GZ's story - then what? What if it does support his story?

And the autopsy - or at least the gun shot information. That tells the rest of the story. How close was the shot? The trajectory? Were they able to print the gun and whose prints did they find?

I really want a Hary Potter invisibility cloak at times like these :crazy:




JMHO
 
SuziQ said:
And this plays out on the night of the shooting how? It's not against the law to have twitter and express your opinion.
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But supports GZ when he says he could be on something.
 
I am also part of a neighborhood watch program and in our neighborhood it's neighbors watching out for each other. We live on a main street and get a lot of foot and bike traffic from a lot of undesirables. If we think someone is acting suspicious and is in or around a neighbor's yard we will first call the neighbor to verify if they know this person and if not to make them aware someone is out there. If the neighbor is not home then we will go outside and make our presence known to this person and make sure they are aware we are watching, and if we feel it is warranted only then will we call the police but NEVER would we go outside packing a gun and follow someone!

To me it doesn't matter if this was just an innocent kid or someone who was up to no good. The fact remains that GZ should of never followed him. He did what he was supposed to do, he called 911 and reported a suspicious person in the neighborhood but then he should of either parked and waited for the police or he simply should of just went home and waited for them to contact him for more info.. It was not his duty to follow TM and it did not give him the right to shoot him. If GZ wouldn't of been so gung ho and would of just sat and waited for the police then none of this would of happened.

And I just want to mention just because someone is wearing a hoodie doesn't mean they are all up to no good. Yes even I am guilty of looking at someone twice because they are wearing one but the fact remains that both the innocent and the guilty do wear these.
 
m00c0w said:
You are correct. This is the Mary C call:

http://www.sanfordfl.gov/investigation/911/call6.wav

She describes the guy standing up as a "black guy". I must have gotten her confused with the other caller.
Click to expand...

How does what she tell 911 fits with the story she is telling the press? Of course her 911 call isn't very detailed but she doesn't say anything about Zimmerman standing/kneeling on top of Trayvon in the 911 call. She says there is a black guy standing up over him, and she doesn't seem to know what was the race of the guy that has been shot.
 
Chris_Texas said:
Absolutely true. It might be 100% legal in Florida to go creeping around following kids or old ladies or whatever.

http://www.scribd.com/doc/86330859/Zimmerman-Martin-Shooting

http://www.leg.state.fl.us/statutes...ng=&URL=0700-0799/0776/Sections/0776.013.html

The legal quotes sound great but they neglect one pretty crucial detail: it is up to the killer to prove that he had reason to use deadly force. It is not simply assumed that he had cause to feel that his life was in danger. And a right to "not retreat" does not necessarily impart a right to ADVANCE.

For fun, let's take (what seems to be) your interpretation of this law and alter a few characters:

In this mythical case, our neighborhood watchman is a black 250 lb construction worker. He spots a suspicious looking teen, an althletic 15 year old white girl heading home after cheerleading practice. He followers her. She phones her boyfriend and reports that she is being stalked by some creepy guy. Suddenly he is right there, in terror she whips out her can of mace and blasts him. Blinded, and now frightened because she is in surprisingly good shape, he pulls out his handgun and blows her away.

Under some people's interpretation of the law he had every legal and moral right to stalk her, confront her, and kill her. Under this interpretation he did absolutely nothing wrong. She did, and she got what she had coming. She had no right not to be followed, no right not to be confronted by this strange adult, no right to defend herself.

Except we both know that if the scenario I described had actually happened, our neighood watch hero would have been arrested on the spot and charged with murder the next day. And our cheerleader? The police would have moved heaven and earth to find her parents, she wouldn't have been dumped in the morgue for a few days as a Jane Doe. And NO ONE would be dredging up high school mischief in an effort to destroy her character.
Click to expand...

Here's another one of those Florida laws for you to ponder.

http://www.flsenate.gov/Laws/Statutes/2011/776.032
 
francie said:
How did Trayvon remove his hoodie, get shot & die then put the hoodie back on, when Zimmerman was seen sitting on his back?? :waitasec:
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Hood part could have dropped down off TM head then from a distance on a dark rainy night might be mistaken for a t shirt. I did not mean he took off the shirt.
 
Wise Old Owl said:
So, now we have discussion about hearing two separate voices. The one in the beginning - the loudest and then right before the shot another voice yells help.

I do believe this tape will help tell the story. IF they both yelled, who said what? This type of testing doesn't take that long. They already know exactly what is said and who is saying it - I'll bet the hosue on that.

Now, is that report from the Quantico Audio Testing Department doesn't jive with GZ's story - then what? What if it does support his story?

And the autopsy - or at least the gun shot information. That tells the rest of the story. How close was the shot? The trajectory? Were they able to print the gun and whose prints did they find?

I really want a Hary Potter invisibility cloak at times like these :crazy:




JMHO
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I think if it was GZ screaming, then it's manslaughter. If it was Trayvon, it's 2nd degree murder. At least, that's what I envision in my perfect world.

One thing I thought about today---the trajectory of the shot, the blood on GZ's shirt, GZ's injuries, and witnesses were probably available the night of the shooting. The original investigator wanted homicide charges. So something in one of those areas was hinky, but not enough to prosecute at that time.
 
Wise Old Owl said:
So, now we have discussion about hearing two separate voices. The one in the beginning - the loudest and then right before the shot another voice yells help.

I do believe this tape will help tell the story. IF they both yelled, who said what? This type of testing doesn't take that long. They already know exactly what is said and who is saying it - I'll bet the hosue on that.

Now, is that report from the Quantico Audio Testing Department doesn't jive with GZ's story - then what? What if it does support his story?

And the autopsy - or at least the gun shot information. That tells the rest of the story. How close was the shot? The trajectory? Were they able to print the gun and whose prints did they find?

I really want a Hary Potter invisibility cloak at times like these :crazy:




JMHO
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Oh me too! We would be looking at all kinds of reports and test results.
 
Salem said:
Please continue here.

Remember the rules: The Rules - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community


Remember the "ignore" feature on your profile page.

Please stick with the facts and link them. Link them often if necessary.

Please clearly state when it is your opinion, speculation only.

PM a mod with any questions or concerns and alert any TOS violations or offensive posts.

Please, please stay respectful of each other.

Thanks,

Salem
Click to expand...

Friendly random :bump:
 
Salem said:
Everybody - you need to calm down. You need to breathe. This thread has had so many alerts a team of mods cannot keep up.

We understand it is a hot topic and everyone feels passionately about their side of the fence.

When comparing this case to others - try to be sure you are comparing apples to apples. The major complaint in this case, that has caused it to be a case of national importance, is the fact that no one was arrested for the shooting. Comparing it to cases where the perp was arrested is comparing apples to oranges. Those cases don't make national news because LE did their jobs, investigated and arrested someone.

Also, comparing it to cases where there was a trial is comparing apples to oranges - there has not even been an arrest here, so it does not compare to a case that was decided by a jury.

Please try to post responsibly. This is an important discussion, for the entire country. Just pulling things out of thin air, spouting off to fan the flames, and linking to information, pictures, etc. that are clearly not of the parties in this case is just plain inflammatory - we don't need that. This case is emotional enough without looking for ways to make it even more sensational.

Breathe, think about what you are saying and posting. Be sure it is pertinent, linkable if it is not your opinion, and said respectfully. Everybody gets a voice, as long as they post their voice responsibly.

Thank you,

Salem
Click to expand...

And one more :bump: for bump's sake :)
It's been a long day, folks. Hopefully tomorrow will bring more news that will be helpful.

Not a mod nor pretending to be, just bumping their words.
 
Yoda said:
What does did not cycle mean?
Tia
Click to expand...

After you fire the first shot of a previously cocked gun/slide was pulled , the mechanism loads/cycle the next bullet into the chamber. So all you have to do is pull the trigger again. If it does not do that, well than you have a single shooter and you have to pull the slide back/*advertiser censored* it manual. Hope that makes sense for a semi automatic
 
Wise Old Owl said:
So, now we have discussion about hearing two separate voices. The one in the beginning - the loudest and then right before the shot another voice yells help.

I do believe this tape will help tell the story. IF they both yelled, who said what? This type of testing doesn't take that long. They already know exactly what is said and who is saying it - I'll bet the hosue on that.

Now, is that report from the Quantico Audio Testing Department doesn't jive with GZ's story - then what? What if it does support his story?

And the autopsy - or at least the gun shot information. That tells the rest of the story. How close was the shot? The trajectory? Were they able to print the gun and whose prints did they find?

I really want a Hary Potter invisibility cloak at times like these :crazy:




JMHO
Click to expand...

I do think both of them could have been screaming.
 
Yoda said:
But supports GZ when he says he could be on something.
Click to expand...

Even he was "on" something, it wasn't GZ's place to go check it out. GZ can't look for support in an archived Twitter account. :twocents:
 
Chris_Texas said:
Absolutely true. It might be 100% legal in Florida to go creeping around following kids or old ladies or whatever.

http://www.scribd.com/doc/86330859/Zimmerman-Martin-Shooting

http://www.leg.state.fl.us/statutes...ng=&URL=0700-0799/0776/Sections/0776.013.html
Click to expand...

The legal quotes sound great but they neglect one pretty crucial detail: it is up to the killer to prove that he had reason to use deadly force. It is not simply assumed that he had cause to feel that his life was in danger. And a right to "not retreat" does not necessarily impart a right to ADVANCE.

For fun, let's take (what seems to be) your interpretation of this law and alter a few characters:

In this mythical case, our neighborhood watchman is a black 250 lb construction worker. He spots a suspicious looking teen, an althletic 15 year old white girl heading home after cheerleading practice. He followers her. She phones her boyfriend and reports that she is being stalked by some creepy guy. Suddenly he is right there, in terror she whips out her can of mace and blasts him. Blinded, and now frightened because she is in surprisingly good shape, he pulls out his handgun and blows her away.

Under some people's interpretation of the law he had every legal and moral right to stalk her, confront her, and kill her. Under this interpretation he did absolutely nothing wrong. She did, and she got what she had coming. She had no right not to be followed, no right not to be confronted by this strange adult, no right to defend herself.

Except we both know that if the scenario I described had actually happened, our neighood watch hero would have been arrested on the spot and charged with murder the next day. And our cheerleader? The police would have moved heaven and earth to find her parents, she wouldn't have been dumped in the morgue for a few days as a Jane Doe. And NO ONE would be dredging up high school mischief in an effort to destroy her character.[/quote]

This is exactly my fear if Trayvon's case is allowed to proceed as it has been. The implications are huge!
 
flourish said:
And one more :bump: for bump's sake :)
It's been a long day, folks. Hopefully tomorrow will bring more news that will be helpful.

Not a mod nor pretending to be, just bumping their words.
Click to expand...

Lol. I'm voting for the lock the thread until the morning!
 
jjenny said:
How does what she tell 911 fits with the story she is telling the press? Of course her 911 call isn't very detailed but she doesn't say anything about Zimmerman being on top of Trayvon in the 911 call. She says there is a black guy standing up over him.
Click to expand...

She makes references in interviews to telling her friend to get back inside, and then telling her friend to call a relative that lives across the street to lock their door because they didn't know if the shooter was still there.
 
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