Fact-Checking "Presumed Guilty" by Jose Baez ***LIST ONLY, NO DISCUSSION***

md89 said:

Pg 50 - "Then she spoke to a girlfriend, who wailed, "If anything happens to Caylee, I'll die." Casey can be heard saying on the tape, "Oh, my God. Calling you guys was a huge waste of time."

He fails to mention that she first said "Oh well."

Casey Jailhouse phone call

Go to 4:23 min in the video.

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Her words as her friend pleaded and cried were:

"Oh Well." (or possibly "Oh Wow.")

Then:

"Ohhh my God. Calling you guys? A waste. HUUGE waste."


Much more disdainful and coldhearted than "Calling you guys was a huge waste of time" as JB quotes her in the book. Significant spin IMO.

noor said:

Baez writes in the book, that during the jail visit Cindy said that there was speculation that Caylee drowned in the pool.
He then writes that KC said to Cindy: "oh well oh well".

In reality KC said: "Surprise surprise".

We've all seen the video.......

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I was going to copy and paste the whole section on that over but for some reason my kindle wont open on the PC this afternoon lol....
anyway..
Jose claims in the book that the reporter had only mentioned an accident, an because cindy said drowning accident he says or hints.. that cindy knew of the drowning because of George..
Now what he doesnt state.. is this..
a few nites before fuhman was on greta they talked about the ladder and the pool..
and the nite before the visit to casey that day.. Nancy grace had her panel of experts discussing the posibility of caylee drowning.. ....
now we all know that cindy watched all those shows at that time to see what was said.. and so when the reporter asked about rumors of accident ... It was an easy trip to think he was talking about drowning

at least to me.. what do you all think

ok here is the quote from the book.. about my above post..

But here’s the point. The media said, she died “by accident.” But Cindy was the one who said “she drowned in the pool.” The inference had to be that at that point Cindy knew. And I was going to ask her how she knew. But we never did that, because we didn’t feel it was necessary.

Golenbock, Peter; Baez, Jose (2012-07-03). Presumed Guilty (Kindle Locations 6252-6255). Perseus Books Group. Kindle Edition.

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I'm hoping someone could back track this from the book and tell me if the timeline's even possible. What time did KC wake up, how long would Caylee have had to been in the pool?

This is from my kindle, I don't have page numbers:

“On the 16th [of June] I had fallen asleep,” Casey began. “I dozed off, and when my father woke me up, he started yelling at me, ‘Where the hell is Caylee? Where the hell is Caylee?’
“I turned around and started to walk toward the house when I saw my father carrying Caylee. I could see Caylee was dripping wet. I could tell she was dead. She had passed away. You could tell she had been in the water a long time.”
Casey said she was frantic and did not know what to do. After pacing and crying for about an hour, she said she could not hold it in any longer and wanted to tell her mother and began to frantically call her.

peedoffinny said:

I'm hoping someone could back track this from the book and tell me if the timeline's even possible. What time did KC wake up, how long would Caylee have had to been in the pool?

This is from my kindle, I don't have page numbers:

“On the 16th [of June] I had fallen asleep,” Casey began. “I dozed off, and when my father woke me up, he started yelling at me, ‘Where the hell is Caylee? Where the hell is Caylee?’
“I turned around and started to walk toward the house when I saw my father carrying Caylee. I could see Caylee was dripping wet. I could tell she was dead. She had passed away. You could tell she had been in the water a long time.”
Casey said she was frantic and did not know what to do. After pacing and crying for about an hour, she said she could not hold it in any longer and wanted to tell her mother and began to frantically call her.

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7:54 am Someone calls Casey's phone from the house landline-goes to voicemail (this was casey checking her cell for messages.
7:56-8:06 am Casey happily IM'ing/flirting ON AOL MESSENGER
8:45 am Casey texts Tony
9:00 am - 10:59 Casey on the computer on facebook and myspace looking up outfits etc for the shot girls
11:47 am-12:06 pm Casey on the phone with Tony
12:55 pm Casey exchanges texts with Tony
1:00-1:14 pm Casey on the phone with Tony
1:26 pm Casey exchanges texts with Jesse
1:44-2:20 pm Casey on the phone with Amy (amy says normal convo.. nothing wrong)
(1:50 someone on computer looks for foolproof suffocation) Not they are not looking up how to commit sucide ,
the site clicked on was an anti-sucide site..btw..
2:30 GA leaves for work.. clocks in at 3o or by 3:00 (time clock proofs this)
2:52-3:04 pm Casey on the phone with Jesse
3:04 GA calls casey

04:11pm: she Called Cindy
04:19pm: Called Tony
04:21pm: Called Jess
04:25pm: Called Cindy
05:57pm: Called Tony

BChand said:

I have read this book inches at a time because it's horribly written and full of lies and speculation, but a part I just read is where Jose is indignant at Jeff Ashton making the pigs in a blanket remark and laughing.

He claims he was standing right next to the jury at the time and they did not appreciate Jeff's joke. I have to assume he was so fixated on the jury that he didn't notice that Casey got the biggest laugh of all out of it.

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it is by far the hardest book ive ever read..
and its not just the subject matter ..altho that is rough..
Its really written bad..

BChand said:

I have read this book inches at a time because it's horribly written and full of lies and speculation, but a part I just read is where Jose is indignant at Jeff Ashton making the pigs in a blanket remark and laughing.

He claims he was standing right next to the jury at the time and they did not appreciate Jeff's joke. I have to assume he was so fixated on the jury that he didn't notice that Casey got the biggest laugh of all out of it.

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BBM
Near the 0:50 mark

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zpvdfTL_qIc"]Casey Anthony trial pigs in a blanket - YouTube[/ame]

LEFT-COASTER said:

Here is what jose says at one point about amy..

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So what, Jose! In the text messages everyone seems to be asking everyone...

http://www.docstoc.com/docs/1678501/Casey-Anthony---Amy-Huizenga-text-messages-part-1

PS- it appears that Casey is getting pumped come May.

ETA: for clarity...Jose sure knows how to skew what's obvious to most.

yeah i know and agree... there were alot of text messages casey wrote to all sorts of people about going to fusion and such.... jb is just of it

chckmate22 said:

Pg 140 - this may or may not be true-Gale St john has a video tape of Kronk in the woods before he called police- it states he returned to the woods -not the actual date of when Gale video taped him

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Here is the complete video, or almost complete. Wouldn't you think they'd mention seeing a man in the woods? Also, you can try "Where's Krons" ala "Where's Waldo" if you watch it.

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D23e6Ry4gSk"]casey anthony psychic blind drive gale st john brian ladd the casey anthony trial anthony casey trial casey anthony lawyers latest on casey anthony casey anthonys - YouTube[/ame]

i am gonna work on posting some more clips from the book tonite and tommorow

page 50 and the book was Miranda vs Arizona.

Basically, I gave her (OCA) a homework assignment. I gave her a book and asked her to write an outline of it. When I came to visit two days later not only had she read the book but her report was so intelligently written, I doubt a seasoned lawyer could have written better.

Me fact checking --> I believe that this high school dropout's last documented jobs were handing out visitor photos at Universal, and "shot girl manager" - because 3 other girls handing out shots at a dive bar defiantly need a manager.

This is a no-discussion thread.

Posts in this thread should consist of brief excerpts from the book, followed by a link to evidence that contradicts or disputes what was stated in the book.

:tyou:

In the book.. when talking about Dr. weitz's depo... he says alot.. here is a bit of it..
Later Weitz said,

“She believes George took Caylee out of the bed, had a sexual—some sort of sexual experience with her daughter, and in order to cover it up killed her.” All of a sudden I had a problem. As soon as Weitz said that, I knew I couldn’t put him on the stand.
Golenbock, Peter; Baez, Jose (2012-07-03). Presumed Guilty (Kindle Locations 4746-4748). Perseus Books Group. Kindle Edition.

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and then....

After Weitz’s deposition, Ashton and the media made a lot of comments about how Casey said that George killed Caylee, but that’s not what she said. I want to be clear about this: Weitz was trying to pin a murder on George, and I didn’t believe that to be the case.
Golenbock, Peter; Baez, Jose (2012-07-03). Presumed Guilty (Kindle Locations 4752-4754). Perseus Books Group. Kindle Edition.

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about the bolded part..
In Dr.W's depo.. he does say that that is what casey says.. so this is another problem with joses memory in the book..
http://cnninsession.files.wordpress.com/2012/01/weitz-william-april-13-2011.pdf
page 190
lines 13 - 16
dr w. says casey told him this..
"

she believes george took caylee out of the bed, had a sexual --- some sort of sexual experience with her daughter , and in order to cover it up killed her "

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Ok.. one more about weitz and a question if someone knows..

She has “no mental disease or defect,” he said. Rather, he said, she suffered from post-traumatic stress disorder.

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I read these depos again last week.. and I could swear that Dr. W said the test didnt show PTSS.. does anyone know where that is.. so i dont have to read it all again lol

RR0004 said:

So what, Jose! In the text messages everyone seems to be asking everyone...

http://www.docstoc.com/docs/1678501/Casey-Anthony---Amy-Huizenga-text-messages-part-1

PS- it appears that Casey is getting pumped come May.

ETA: for clarity...Jose sure knows how to skew what's obvious to most.

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Mr. Baez claims in his book that Casey did not have an AOL account. Enclosed is a document with Casey, as casey o marie, displaying what a good mother she is. Yes, Casey tells many lies to many people as a way of life. Enclosed are the text messages between her and Tony - where she describes her Nanny, her attitude toward her parents, talks about her pretend job, her "snot-head" child and it is obvious Caylee is getting in the way of her new "romance".

http://blogs.discovery.com/criminal...transcripts_between_casey_and_nyitaliano3.pdf

Casey and her parents were video-taped during their visits to the jail when Casey was first arrested. Baez says in his book - Casey said oh well oh well when her parents told her people were saying that Caylee drowned in the pool.

The enclosed video shows that Casey actually said "surprise surprise" and is continuing the illusion that she believes Caylee is alive and "out there"...

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z3xJi0Lu_fc"]P1 of 4 - Missing Jailhouse Video of Casey Anthony and her Parents, George & Cindy (Lost Jail Tapes) - YouTube[/ame]

When talking about Dr weitz and casey's tattoo this is what jose says in his book.

The prosecution made a big deal out of the fact that Casey got tattoos while she was away for the thirty days, but Weitz said that the tattoo on her shoulder that read “La Bella Vita” was actually a tribute to Caylee.
. “It was obtained … after her daughter passed away,” said Weitz. “She told me La Bella Vita would mean the good life or the wonderful life. She said she contrasted that with the way her life had turned, the juxtaposition of how lousy her life had become. She said her life had been relatively normalized, moving in the

direction, and then it had catastrophically changed, both in terms of what had [happened] in her life legally and also the loss of her daughter. “She represents it to be the irony in how her life had transpired,” he said.
Presumed Guilty (Kindle Locations 4731-4736)​

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Page 17...

The police pounded away at her. As the interrogation was coming to a close, Melich received a phone call from Cindy. What Cindy wanted Melich to know was on the day that Caylee disappeared, the ladder on the outdoor above-ground swimming pool was up, meaning that Caylee would have access to the pool.

Fact checking:

CA's depostion 07/29/09 - page 450 & 451 , (sorry I can't link, the Hinky Meter is gone, and the wftv link is no longer working) (I have pdf but can't find a working link)

Q (LDB) Okay. Did you ever specifically ask Casey if there was an accident involving Caylee?

A (CA) I probably did at some point. I know I had brought it up to the sheriff's department. specifically remember speaking to Sergeant Allen about the possibility that Caylee may have fallen off the ladder.

Q (LDB) Uh-huh.

A (CA) And when they were there with the dogs, I asked them to specifically --

Q (LDB) I remember that.

A (CA) -- check the pool area. And he said there was nothing there to be concerned with. So that was a thought --

CA never, ever mentions throughout this entire depo that the pool ladder was up. JB is at this 7/29/09 depo, and while he does question CA about many things(includes his infamous Zip It comment), JB never asks CA about the ladder or the pool. This is very important because, on page 174, JB writes,

The day I had a major breakthrough with OCA came in the early months of 2009. I had set it up a couple of days before when I said to her, "You know, OCA, I've never pressed you about what happened........ As we sat in jail, she began to tell me what happened the day that Caylee disappeared.

...(OCA) "I noticed that the pool ladder was still attached. Caylee and my mom had been swimming the night before, I couldn't believe it was still up. Caylee loved to swim, but once she got into the pool, she had no way of getting out, so I always made sure someone was there with her".

Same depo, specific to the night of June 15, 2008 (page 271) CA states:

(CA) And then when we got -- when Casey got home that evening, Caylee and I were in the -- was in the pool.

Q (LDB) Uh-huh.

A (CA) And when Casey came outside, she asked if the water was warm and she was going to join us. And I told her it was getting kind of chilly and I said Caylee is getting kind of shrivelly. I said: Why don't you go get her bath ready? So Casey went back in, got Caylee's bath ready, came out with a towel and took Caylee.

Q Uh-huh.

A (CA) And then I finished putting the pool stuff away and took the ladder off the pool and then went inside. And I think by that. time Caylee was in the tub with Casey.

Q (LDB) Okay.

A (CA) So -- and then after that, Casey got something to eat and then we sat and watched my dad's video and we cried....

In Debbie Polosano depo (Nov 24, 2008) - page 10 & 11,

(DP) "because the ladder...she felt that there was someone swimming in their pool because the ladder was up against the wall of the pool and she never did that. She always made sure she put it way."

(YM) And that's the same day she's telling you about the gas cans being taken?

(DP) Yeah, to me, I remember it being like the same day, because she said (CA), that's weird because somebody else broke into the shed"