Skyla Whitaker, 11, & Taylor Placker 13 - Found Murdered - #10

Patience said:

I believe long enough to pull back into a ponytail. I am sure that the authorities have him on their list of person's of interest. I would not clear him anyway, based just on the sketch.

But then again, I wonder if the sketch is bogus, coming from sources that are not credible. I don't want to have tunnel vision so I want to consider all possibilities

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LE is not going to release a sketch that could be "bogus". They have repeatedly mentioned the witnesses are credible and I am sure they have checked out their stories, backgrounds, etc. There is corroborating evidence at the scene to back them up.

Patience said:

Is that Badillo? Opinions here have discounted Badillo, but I have to tell you that I would not clear him yet.


http://www.fbi.gov/wanted/alert/badillo_jg.htm

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That isn't Badillo, that is Torres. He was on AMW last night in connection with a driveby shooting killing a 10 yo boy.

The witnesses would know the distinct differences of NA and Hispanic as Oklahoma's population has many of both. The sketch is definitely a NA male.

Trino said:

Again referencing Mark Furhman, shots to the chest first, then a shot to the head to insure the person does not survive. Furhman mentioned training as a possibility.

IMO it was a systematic killing for whatever reason.

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I love Mark F., but I keep going back to what Skyla's grandmother remarked the shot to the head was first and then they unloaded on them after they were dead. I don't think she arrived at this conclusion alone and the family must know more than is being released to the media. (I am also certain that LE did not want her telling that on Greta either!)

The autopsy would reveal which shots were first and the position of the bodies when the subsequent shots were fired. OSBI's Jessica Brown said they know the trajectory. (By the way, this is where some people may have gotten off-track. Jessica did not insinuate the shots came from above at all...it was NG that once agained tossed in her two cents to arrive at that one.)

SeriouslySearching said:

LE is not going to release a sketch that could be "bogus". They have repeatedly mentioned the witnesses are credible and I am sure they have checked out their stories, backgrounds, etc. There is corroborating evidence at the scene to back them up.

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SS, what corroborating evidence is that?

IMOO, there is room for questioning the credibility of the witnesses who came forward about the POI. I believe the OSBI was obligated to release the sketch even if they themselves had some doubts about the witnesses who gave the description (not saying they did but it’s a possibility, see Brown’s comment below). I’ve only heard them say the male witness who saw the girls walking (alive) was “very credible.” I’ve never heard the OSBI specifically state that about the witnesses who saw the POI (but I could be mistaken). I’m still leaving it open as a possibility for now.
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Officer Willingham made a general comment - he said officers go with the best information available. "It's up to the individual's perception," Willingham said. "We can't discount a witness because we're not sure if what they're saying is true."

Brown said the forensic artist who made the sketch has 30 years of experience. She said not releasing the sketch would have been criticized and that the man is not a suspect.

http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/article.aspx?articleID=20080628_11_A4_spancl9259

cloudajo said:

SS, what corroborating evidence is that?

IMOO, there is room for questioning the credibility of the witnesses who came forward about the POI. I believe the OSBI was obligated to release the sketch even if they themselves had some doubts about the witnesses who gave the description (not saying they did but it’s a possibility, see Brown’s comment below). I’ve only heard them say the male witness who saw the girls walking (alive) was “very credible.” I’ve never heard the OSBI specifically state that about the witnesses who saw the POI (but I could be mistaken). I’m still leaving it open as a possibility for now.
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Officer Willingham made a general comment - he said officers go with the best information available. "It's up to the individual's perception," Willingham said. "We can't discount a witness because we're not sure if what they're saying is true."

Brown said the forensic artist who made the sketch has 30 years of experience. She said not releasing the sketch would have been criticized and that the man is not a suspect.

http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/article.aspx?articleID=20080628_11_A4_spancl9259

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It has been mentioned more than once that lie detector tests have been administered concerning this case. I truly think LE have a sixth sense on what is true and what is made up. I do believe this POI exists and was there the very day and time this happened.

Without him this case seems to be in limbo so imo he IS the link. In little over a week it will be a month since this crime happened and what are the police still missing? This man who cant be found and imo someone is hiding him out and whomever may have been with him at the time.

imoo

The question would be has LE completely checked out the people who said they drove by the POI. Because if the POI isn't real then they are most likely the shooters or are involved somehow.

Tire tracks, u-turn, and boot prints could all belong to them.

What better way to cover a crime. You are local and you know people probably saw you driving in the area so you come forward, after a while, and say you drove by that area and you saw somebody there.

You give a generic part Indian, part white physical description and a generic white Chevy or Ford truck vehicle description.

Or.

The POI may actually be a real person but wasn't on that road that day. So even if somebody reports the guy, LE may have checked him out and discovered he wasn't in the area that day. They conclude he just resembles the POI. The POI lead has just become a dead end.

Albert18 said:

The question would be has LE completely checked out the people who said they drove by the POI. Because if the POI isn't real then they are most likely the shooters or are involved somehow.

Tire tracks, u-turn, and boot prints could all belong to them.

What better way to cover a crime. You are local and you know people probably saw you driving in the area so you come forward, after a while, and say you drove by that area and you saw somebody there.

You give a generic part Indian, part white physical description and a generic white Chevy or Ford truck vehicle description.

Or.

The POI may actually be a real person but wasn't on that road that day. So even if somebody reports the guy, LE may have checked him out and discovered he wasn't in the area that day. They conclude he just resembles the POI. The POI lead has just become a dead end.

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I don't think it is some vast conspiracy among the "murderers". I don't believe the police are that dumb if the witnesses that came in where connected to each other in any way.

It seems there are several witnesses and I think it highly unlikely that they are all lying.

The composite is not generic to me. It is one of the most detailed composites that I have seen lately. It shows me also that the other witnesses than the initial one thinks the sketch looks like the POI.

imoo

Badillo seems too short - 5-6" to 5-9" and too heavy. He also looks distinctly Hispanic to me. The sketch artist is NA himself, I am sure he would have determined whether the POI was Hispanic rather than Native American. Badillo's hair appears rather wavy - like grown out it might get rather frizzy and "big" given the humidity in OK summers..if he had been growing his hair for the full 3 years since the last photo it might be shoulder length - certainly not to the small of his back. And it would appear "curly" - not a NA trait.

The sketch artist here becomes important - in his interviewing and his techniques. I think Pratt (the artist) would have quickly determined whether the POI was Hispanic rather than NA..and as someone said, people in OK certainly see plenty of both in their daily lives and can readily identify both correctly. The comparison between Badillo and the POI sketch does not (in my eyes) show any similarities that would lead me to ID the POI as Badillo. The length of the face, the nose and general bone structure, the height and weight do not match.

And I do believe that the OSBI has a "good sketch" - there is a reason they are not releasing how many people saw the POI or WHO they are to protect their witnesses and be able to use those witnesses in a line-up. If I had seen this guy I would be holed up in my house till he was in custody - if he is the killer (or one of them) he has no problem taking out anyone he feels is a threat...two young innocent girls are dead at his hand - a witness would be NOTHING.

I look at that sketch and feel it is so good that I imagine at least two or 3 unrelated witnesses were involved in the finished sketch - at least one of whom saw the POI primarily from the side and back. It is clear to me (since the sketch has gone nationwide) the OSBI believes it's a "real" likeness of the POI and that someone (or several someones) got a really good look at this guy. I just cannot see one (or even two) individuals getting such a detailed look at this guy driving by him that this sketch could be produced. I think he was seen by at least 3 or 4 witnesses at different times. This happened around 5 PM on Sunday - people were going home and heading to church - I think it's very possible several cars passed the man in a 10-15 minute window - and maybe NOT ALL at the murder scene.

My Opinion

Why would several independent witnesses make up the same person? I know it's frustrating that this poi hasn't been found or ID'ed yet, but that doesn't mean he's fabricated.

The POI could be anyone .. anywhere. Look at Couey right under their nose all that time and that is a small rural community.

cloudajo said:

SS, what corroborating evidence is that?

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The tire tracks, the boot print, the area itself producing the pile of shell casings, the fact he was seen at the crime seen acting "suspicious", etc. I think all of it together is corroborating evidence to what these witnesses have reported.

You know being that this was a small town, that means LE probably knows what everyone is into. I wonder if they have rounded up the usual suspects and had some chats with them? Someone in that area has to know something. And I do believe that more then 1 person is involved in the shootings, beside the POI. And I don't think the truck belonged to the POI, it belonged to one of the others ..so it seems like it wouldn't take too long to put two and two together.

Yes I agree the witnesses did see the POI and they saw him at different times..standing, sitting, full frontal view and side view. And they all thought he looked suspicious and they also didn't know who he was.

GetSmart said:

The POI could be anyone .. anywhere. Look at Couey right under their nose all that time and that is a small rural community.

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But no-one SAW Couey. No-one could link Couey to his crime outside his own cronies and family who were as tweaked out as he was. And he did live within a few hundred feet of his victim...in a trailer park with 100 other trailers - hardly isolated or hidden - and he was caught - pretty quickly too.

In this case we have outside witnesses to the POI and a sketch of him...as well as a description of his vehicle. While our POI could indeed be "anywhere" at this point, he is not invisible and cannot spend the rest of his life without a single contact in the "outside world". He may hide, but it can't last, eventually he will have to step out into a world where someone could make that connection between him and the sketch. I think there is far more to this case than we are privy to - and I think they are closer to solving it than we know. Like Couey, the person responsible for this horrific crime will eventually make a mis-step and be caught and held accountable for his actions - and we will have another resident for Oklahoma's Death Row.

I know it is frustrating and makes us ALL angry it is going so slowly - I suggest this might help all of us who have taken these girls into our hearts: Visualize the best possible outcome for all concerned and hold Taylor and Skyla in your mind as you do. Know that what you seek (the best outcome) will become reality. There is plenty of emotion and anger and pain running rampant in this case - we don't need THAT energy. What we need most now is positive energy (however you define that - prayer, meditation, white light) and a break in the case. I do believe it will come.

My Opinion

Good Point FC

FlowerChild said:

But no-one SAW Couey. No-one could link Couey to his crime outside his own cronies and family who were as tweaked out as he was. And he did live within a few hundred feet of his victim...in a trailer park with 100 other trailers - hardly isolated or hidden - and he was caught - pretty quickly too.

In this case we have outside witnesses to the POI and a sketch of him...as well as a description of his vehicle. While our POI could indeed be "anywhere" at this point, he is not invisible and cannot spend the rest of his life without a single contact in the "outside world". He may hide, but it can't last, eventually he will have to step out into a world where someone could make that connection between him and the sketch. I think there is far more to this case than we are privy to - and I think they are closer to solving it than we know. Like Couey, the person responsible for this horrific crime will eventually make a mis-step and be caught and held accountable for his actions - and we will have another resident for Oklahoma's Death Row.

I know it is frustrating and makes us ALL angry it is going so slowly - I suggest this might help all of us who have taken these girls into our hearts: Visualize the best possible outcome for all concerned and hold Taylor and Skyla in your mind as you do. Know that what you seek (the best outcome) will become reality. There is plenty of emotion and anger and pain running rampant in this case - we don't need THAT energy. What we need most now is positive energy (however you define that - prayer, meditation, white light) and a break in the case. I do believe it will come.

My Opinion

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While I too try to remain optimistic in total support for these grieving family members I am not so sure he will be found quickly.

We have no idea where he is now. He very well could be anywhere and that place could be self sustaining for him where he would not have to venture out for anything or a need to do so. Really looking for a POI, who by all accounts was unknown in the area the crime was committed in, is like looking for a needle in a haystack of 300 million people. Even the OK tag could have been stolen.

I remember Agent Brown referred to "your group" as if compelling someone that is in the group that is hiding him out to come forward. However many times they will not rat out one of their own.

We have seen that happen in other cases where people knew who did the murder all along yet never told a soul until years later when they were no longer around them and didn't feel so fearful.

So I do hope and pray they are close to finding this man. Brown said she thinks finding this man will quickly resolve this case but now it is going on nearly a month and I certain hope they have more solid information to go on than what they have been saying in public. If not then the families must be very worried.

imoo

We don't have to find the POI to solve this case. Just somebody (anybody) who knows something about the crime. If the POI wasn't alone in this, then there are OTHER PEOPLE who know ...any one of whom could blow this case wide open.

Would it be nice to find the POI today, sure, would it necessarily solve the case? Maybe not. I'll settle for some guilty little peon who knows something and can't live with the guilt. And if the POI is in hiding then there has to be at least one more person who is helping him - and they could have a fight tomorrow.

All it takes is ONE PERSON to blow this whole thing wide open, just ONE PERSON. I continue to focus on human nature - which almost invariably leads someone to spill his or her guts - either out of guilt or anger or self protection. The house of cards only needs ONE WEAK POINT to fall into a heap. And human nature almost guarantees that the longer we go, the more likely it is that the circle of those who "know" continues to grow and that one of those people will find it necessary to share what they know with LE.

The more time that passes, the safer the killer(s) feel and as that happens more people will come to know a small part of the "secret". With every day the better the chances that someone will get into a situation where they will reveal what they know. Criminals are hardly known for their high IQ - and there were mistakes made in this crime and the killer(s) will continue to make mistakes. They will trust the wrong person or lower their guard or do something stupid that will put them in jail for something else. Even the greatest crime organizations have been leveled by one tiny wrong move....and I don't believe we are dealing with anything like that here...just the run-of -the-mill dumb criminal who can't even get control of his own crime scene. STUUUPID!

The killer(s) will reach the end of the rope eventually and free-fall into hell. There is much the OSBI knows and much we cannot know - but as they said, the noose is tightening and soon will snare the prey.

Even Bundy and the Green River Killer were eventually run to ground.
My Opinion

oceanblueeyes said:

But would someone who was already 19 give the child to her parents to raise as their own child?

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When I was in my early 20's, a friend who I worked w/ and partied w/ was letting her parents raise her little boy as their own. She had him at 18 and he was 4 at that time and just thought of him mom as his sister.

Tom'sGirl said:

I have no idea, but in most States it doesn't matter what level of Education the parents have when a child is on Independent Study and doing their work at home.

Yeah, I didn't think of that. My ex's cousin (biker) kept his youngest dd after his ex (mom of kid) lost her first two children due to her meth addiction. He got full custody of her around 3 or 4. She started kindergarten a year late, then he decided to "see the states" and pulled her out another year. She was 9 (turning 10) and in the 2nd grade.

BTW, do you live in Oklahoma?

No, I just started emailing this reporter and he emailed back.

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Originally Posted by Patience
Is that Badillo? Opinions here have discounted Badillo, but I have to tell you that I would not clear him yet.


http://www.fbi.gov/wanted/alert/badillo_jg.htm

quote=Annie;There is a sentence in there that he may be trying to disguise his appearance by growing his hair long. How long would it grow in three years?[/quote]


Annie, Hair grows about 1/2 inch per month = 18" in 3 years, give or take. I would not discount him as the POI. IMO Anything is possible. This second photo of him could be mistaken for NA. Imagine him without the facial hair and a cap on. He def looks more like the POI in this photo than the first photo. good find!

FlowerChild said:

But no-one SAW Couey. No-one could link Couey to his crime outside his own cronies and family who were as tweaked out as he was. And he did live within a few hundred feet of his victim...in a trailer park with 100 other trailers - hardly isolated or hidden - and he was caught - pretty quickly too.

In this case we have outside witnesses to the POI and a sketch of him...as well as a description of his vehicle. While our POI could indeed be "anywhere" at this point, he is not invisible and cannot spend the rest of his life without a single contact in the "outside world". He may hide, but it can't last, eventually he will have to step out into a world where someone could make that connection between him and the sketch. I think there is far more to this case than we are privy to - and I think they are closer to solving it than we know. Like Couey, the person responsible for this horrific crime will eventually make a mis-step and be caught and held accountable for his actions - and we will have another resident for Oklahoma's Death Row.

I know it is frustrating and makes us ALL angry it is going so slowly - I suggest this might help all of us who have taken these girls into our hearts: Visualize the best possible outcome for all concerned and hold Taylor and Skyla in your mind as you do. Know that what you seek (the best outcome) will become reality. There is plenty of emotion and anger and pain running rampant in this case - we don't need THAT energy. What we need most now is positive energy (however you define that - prayer, meditation, white light) and a break in the case. I do believe it will come.

My Opinion

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Just because witnesses saw the POI doesn't mean he looks like what they saw.As a newbie (sorry can't remember who) pointed out, the POI may have been wearing a hat with the ponytail sewn into it. A costume type of thing. So perhaps the POI doesn't even have long hair and is hiding in plain sight. Sadly nothing would surprise me at this point.