Armchair psych profile and personal background

ToBeHonest · Jul 4, 2012

Mozzmo said:
I agree that anything LM says is highly suspect and not to be believed without corroboration. A thorough assessment of him would include separate interviews with family members. The fact is that 60-70% of criminals come from a history of child abuse, in particular physical/sexual. Most of such criminals would also have pathological lying as a staple to their personality. The odds alone suggest he had a difficult childhood. I am not suggesting we should believe him at his word, I fully support corroboration from those who would know. I also think we have to look at factual statistics that indicate he likely had a bad childhood.

I agree with your insights, and have read the same statistics repeatedly. I know LM was a liar to the "nth" degree, but his stories of childhood trauma are consistently intermingled in his internet presence over and over, and there are media stories to corroborate that his family was not normal (his Aunt being killed, his Aunt's son being in prison). I feel if you are objective, you have to acknowledge that someone with such a Pandora's Box of pathologies was influenced both by genetics and their environment.

I think there's a tendency to think mentioning a bad childhood creates an excuse for acts committed. That isn't so--acknowledging childhood is a contributor in cases like this only helps to explain why LM and others like him lack the chemical equilibirium to choose a less self-destructive path. I think where support system guides you helps to determine this. For example, why does one person w/ psychopathic traits become a serial killer while another becomes a CEO? Granted, we don't want our bosses to completely lack empathy and conscience, but it's clear which is the more functional and successful path.

I think in cases like this, there is no black and white; LM may have come out wired incorrectly, but something along the way helped to nurture that miswiring into something devious and destructive. Those outcomes don't exist in a vacuum.

Mozzmo · Jul 4, 2012

I feel if you are objective, you have to acknowledge that someone with such a Pandora's Box of pathologies was influenced both by genetics and their environment.

I agree. I've acknowledged that genetics can be a part of psychopathy, it's just posted a bit earlier in the discussion. I was only discussing the role of likely child abuse in the entry you commented on, but not to the exclusion of genetic contributions.

ToBeHonest · Jul 4, 2012

I find it interesting that LM posted a link to a page about cognitive dissonance theory on his twitter. Though it's a blip in his online presence, if you look at his patterns, he contradicts himself all the time. His internet presence even seems to alternately love and hate him, wants to call him out on his issues and crimes but then delights in not being caught. You can also see he focuses on neuroscience and mental illness, but also seems to take delight in putting people off by through claims that he is psychopathic and unable to feel shame or guilt. I could go on, but I get tired thinking about the ways in which he contradicts himself.

I'm thinking the only way we will ever really know what LM is made of is if he took some of his "pro tips" from OJ Simpson and left behind his own version of this: If I Did It - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia :floorlaugh:

OEJ · Jul 4, 2012

writer7 said:
I missed the rip-off reports stuff. Can you give a link? I'm fascinated by whatever he was doing during that time-frame. When killers can just go to work or similar and act completely normal, it shows an ability most people don't have (thank God).

I wonder if most psychopaths/sociopaths/anti-socials are quite retaliatory? My friend was... whoooo. And she toyed with people cruelly just for kicks, too, I learned eventually. If y'all have ever seen Pacific Heights, you get an idea of how bizarre it can be. Awesome movie.

(I can't say my exact relationship with that girl and her family. I'm afraid she could figure out who I am here if she ever stumbled across this and I give too much detail. I'm still afraid of her, to tell the truth.)

http://www.ripoffreport.com/franchisors/nader-eid-fitness-tr/nader-eid-fitness-trainer-aja-cf970.htm

He also posted this:

http://www.ripoffreport.com/bars-lo...sexu/luka-magnotta-bisexual-male-mo-81e0c.htm

He also pretended to be a good Samaritan on the above rip-off report and set up his own "Find Serial Killer Luka Magnotta" Facebook page:

http://www.facebook.com/pages/Find-Serial-Killer-Luka-Magnotta/391887607519568

I don't know if most serial killers are retaliatory types, but I think at least some are.

thedissent · Jul 4, 2012

Mozzmo said:
I agree that anything LM says is highly suspect and not to be believed without corroboration. A thorough assessment of him would include separate interviews with family members. The fact is that 60-70% of criminals come from a history of child abuse, in particular physical/sexual. Most of such criminals would also have pathological lying as a staple to their personality. The odds alone suggest he had a difficult childhood. I am not suggesting we should believe him at his word, I fully support corroboration from those who would know. I also think we have to look at factual statistics that indicate he likely had a bad childhood.

All great points, Mozzmo. I agree.

thedissent · Jul 4, 2012

HAL9000 said:
Hey there!

I'm brand new here and consider myself a bit of a true crime buff in my free time, but this case has, for lack of a better word, terrorized my mind since day one. It's just disturbing and bewildering on a level unlike anything I've ever heard of in my life. Anyways, I'm so impressed with all the sleuthing everyone has been doing here and I came across this video about a week ago and have been meaning to chime in. I've been trying to make my way through all the various threads here and I haven't seen anyone post this, but if it's already been discussed and dismissed, my apologies for wasting your time. Also if this is in the wrong thread, I'm sorry for that as well. I'm still trying to learn the ropes here.

It appears to be some guy who calls Luka's cell number while he's on the run in Europe, obviously to harass him. The pertinent part is between the 5:00 minute mark and the 6:15 ish mark. If you compare the voice who answers to the voice in the older Sun interview, it (to me) definitely sounds like him. Also, it might make sense for him to answer his cell phone since I am pretty sure he did have his phone on him in Europe for a couple days there until he knew he was being tracked and dumped the cell into the subway bin in Paris (I think?)

The voice who answers at first is the typical Luka "deep" voice which he said on his Cover Guy interview came from practice, but the second he is threatened by the caller, it changes to what I believe is his more natural, higher pitched voice. The reason I post this here is to possibly add a miniscule amount of insight into his psyche. He seems to flip into a bit of a rage at the flip of a switch. At any rate, I just thought it was creepy and would throw this out there.

The call:

[REUPLOADED] Calling Luka Magnotta's Alleged Phone Number - YouTube

The Sun interview:

Sun interviews Luka Magnotta - YouTube

I'm sorry for the super long introduction post here. I just wanted to share this strange clip. Keep up the awesome sleuthing! :seeya:

Welcome, Hal.

I've previously listened to that prank call. Do you think it sounds like LRM's voice from The Sun interview? I'm not entirely sure. The way the answerer responds to the caller is definitely weird, but the voice sounds a bit different to me.

thedissent · Jul 4, 2012

ToBeHonest said:
I agree with your insights, and have read the same statistics repeatedly. I know LM was a liar to the "nth" degree, but his stories of childhood trauma are consistently intermingled in his internet presence over and over, and there are media stories to corroborate that his family was not normal (his Aunt being killed, his Aunt's son being in prison). I feel if you are objective, you have to acknowledge that someone with such a Pandora's Box of pathologies was influenced both by genetics and their environment.

I think there's a tendency to think mentioning a bad childhood creates an excuse for acts committed. That isn't so--acknowledging childhood is a contributor in cases like this only helps to explain why LM and others like him lack the chemical equilibirium to choose a less self-destructive path. I think where support system guides you helps to determine this. For example, why does one person w/ psychopathic traits become a serial killer while another becomes a CEO? Granted, we don't want our bosses to completely lack empathy and conscience, but it's clear which is the more functional and successful path.

I think in cases like this, there is no black and white; LM may have come out wired incorrectly, but something along the way helped to nurture that miswiring into something devious and destructive. Those outcomes don't exist in a vacuum.

I don't disagree with any of this.

However, I am reasoning against a different kind of tendency: the tendency for people to assume that someone who commits a shocking violent crime like this, must necessarily have suffered some kind of abusive childhood.

It's become a staple component of pop culture that a violent offender or serial killer must have suffered some kind of child abuse.

With psychopaths-- LRM seems to fit pretty much every psychopathic trait-- that is not necessarily the case. For example, though Ted Bundy was not raised in a typical nuclear family unit (mainly raised by his step father), there was never any evidence that he suffered any kind of childhood abuse.

This is what I was trying to get at earlier, talking about recent research suggesting psychopathy is a genetic adaptation, and not necessarily a psychological abnormality caused by developmental issues or trauma.

Certainly, I am not denying environmental factors have some kind of influence. In fact, research done on point has shown that abuse has no impact or association on core psychopathic interpersonal traits, but may affect some psychopathic subtypes:

Theorists have postulated that some variants of psychopathy result from childhood abuse and neglect. Dissociative symptoms are also thought to arise from abuse... The authors used structural equation modeling to examine these hypotheses in a sample of 615 male offenders who had completed a retrospective self-report measure of childhood abuse, the Dissociative Experiences Scale, and R. D. Hare's (2003) Psychopathy Checklist--Revised. Abuse exerted no direct or indirect effect on the core interpersonal and affective features of psychopathy but was directly related to the facet of psychopathy associated with an impulsive and irresponsible lifestyle. Implications for psychopathy subtypes are discussed.

See: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16737393

Indeed, research suggests that psychopathy falls along a range, and certain developmental issues may drive someone towards a more violent strategies compared to other outlets: like working as a CEO, as you mentioned earlier.

Like Bundy, LRM seems to have grown up in an unstable family environment. This may have had an impact on his psychology later, including his psychopathy.

But I don't think we should necessarily assume LRM had, without credible evidence, an abuse history.

HastingsChi · Jul 4, 2012

thedissent said:
However, I am reasoning against a different kind of tendency: the tendency for people to assume that someone who commits a shocking violent crime like this, must necessarily have suffered some kind of abusive childhood.

It's become a staple component of pop culture that a violent offender or serial killer must have suffered some kind of child abuse.

Snipped By Me

I absolutely agree with thedissent's thoughts on the societal assumption that if one portrays shocking violent behavior he or she must have suffered an abusive childhood.

As we do not have many actual details about Magnotta's childhood from a credible source (Luka isn't known for his honesty and his aunt came across to me as a whack job), I'd ask for your consideration of and feedback on the following:

I write this specifically about Magnotta and base it on what we know about him, please do not make the assumption that this would apply to anyone but Magnotta.

What would Magnotta gain by claiming childhood abuse to friends and/or lovers? Sympathy. A second chance. Understanding.

From everything we have learned Magnotta seems to come across as an arrogant prick who told tall tales and exhibited erratic/odd/self-destructive behaviors. It seems these behaviors hindered his ability to maintain personal relationships. When a personal relationship faced a sharp decline and one was trying to cut Magnotta out of his or her life, he may have used a fabricated story of childhood abuse told in a manner which would tug at the heartstrings in order to humanize his behavior, get a second chance or gain sympathy and con someone into taking care of him; helping him.

Just seems like something he would do...

dotr · Jul 4, 2012

HAL9000 said:
Hey there!

I'm brand new here and consider myself a bit of a true crime buff in my free time, but this case has, for lack of a better word, terrorized my mind since day one. It's just disturbing and bewildering on a level unlike anything I've ever heard of in my life. Anyways, I'm so impressed with all the sleuthing everyone has been doing here and I came across this video about a week ago and have been meaning to chime in. I've been trying to make my way through all the various threads here and I haven't seen anyone post this, but if it's already been discussed and dismissed, my apologies for wasting your time. Also if this is in the wrong thread, I'm sorry for that as well. I'm still trying to learn the ropes here.

It appears to be some guy who calls Luka's cell number while he's on the run in Europe, obviously to harass him. The pertinent part is between the 5:00 minute mark and the 6:15 ish mark. If you compare the voice who answers to the voice in the older Sun interview, it (to me) definitely sounds like him. Also, it might make sense for him to answer his cell phone since I am pretty sure he did have his phone on him in Europe for a couple days there until he knew he was being tracked and dumped the cell into the subway bin in Paris (I think?)

The voice who answers at first is the typical Luka "deep" voice which he said on his Cover Guy interview came from practice, but the second he is threatened by the caller, it changes to what I believe is his more natural, higher pitched voice. The reason I post this here is to possibly add a miniscule amount of insight into his psyche. He seems to flip into a bit of a rage at the flip of a switch. At any rate, I just thought it was creepy and would throw this out there.

The call:

[REUPLOADED] Calling Luka Magnotta's Alleged Phone Number - YouTube

The Sun interview:

Sun interviews Luka Magnotta - YouTube

I'm sorry for the super long introduction post here. I just wanted to share this strange clip. Keep up the awesome sleuthing! :seeya:

Welcome to WS!
I listened to the recordings several times
and was torn as to whether or not it was his voice.I now tend to think that it was him,not so much because of the voice tone, but because of how in both recordings,the man, LM? seems to be "parroting" the person with whom he is speaking.
The first caller's "hey man"is responded to with ,imo a slightly sarcastic "yeah man" and the reporter in second call is responded to in an (imo) affected, snobby, mid atlantic stretching of the vowels as in" that should be awwbveeous".ect.

dotr · Jul 4, 2012

Sorry, just to clarify post, the reporter does not have a snobby, affected English accent, but LM, when challenged, puts it on in an attempt, I think to pull his imaginary "class card". Same thing with previous caller, low key voice response becomes clipped authoritarian, ie not just saying that cops have the number, but the" Metropolitan police".

Sierra20 · Jul 4, 2012

I'm starting to get quite intrigued about LM's family and what they must be feeling about what he has done? Do they still care about him at all? Did he separate himself from them years ago or did they disown him? Why did they supposedly not intervene when he started out on his destructive path? Could they ever know he was eventually gonna do something like this?
I guess it could be a whole new thread, I know we are not allowed to sleuth them though.

No_Stone_Unturned · Jul 4, 2012

Sierra20 said:
I'm starting to get quite intrigued about LM's family and what they must be feeling about what he has done? Do they still care about him at all? Did he separate himself from them years ago or did they disown him? Why did they supposedly not intervene when he started out on his destructive path? Could they ever know he was eventually gonna do something like this?
I guess it could be a whole new thread, I know we are not allowed to sleuth them though.

I highly doubt anyone could have prevented this as sad as that is to admit. Psychopaths are products of their genes + environment. I suspect he was already torturing animals/insects from before he could read and write. Perhaps if someone had intervened way back then......but really what can you do? How would anyone know that (let's say) pulling the wings off a fly is not 'natural childood behaviour' rather than knowing the child was really enjoying hurting the insect?

Did that make any sense at all?

CuriousRus · Jul 4, 2012

ToBeHonest said:
... he contradicts himself all the time. His internet presence even seems to alternately love and hate him, wants to call him out on his issues and crimes but then delights in not being caught.

I agree and your comment made me think of what he wrote on the closet door...the words could also be a conflict within himself. "If you don't like the reflection, don't look in the mirror. I don't care." It's almost like one personality is talking to another.

It sort of appears that he has this dominant personality that takes over his submissive side. If you exclude the sex on the killvid, based on what you've read, his escort ads, his photos, etc, wouldn't you be lead to believe he's submissive? Then he produces this horrific vid in which he is completely in dominant control. It just seems he has this dark voice in him that pops up and just takes over.

CuriousRus · Jul 4, 2012

No_Stone_Unturned said:
I highly doubt anyone could have prevented this as sad as that is to admit. Psychopaths are products of their genes + environment. I suspect he was already torturing animals/insects from before he could read and write. Perhaps if someone had intervened way back then......but really what can you do? How would anyone know that (let's say) pulling the wings off a fly is not 'natural childood behaviour' rather than knowing the child was really enjoying hurting the insect?

Did that make any sense at all?

That's not normal childhood behavior, I mean the insect experimenting thing? I think that might be a little boy (and some girls) curiosity thing and not necessarily a sign things will escalate to larger animals or a seed for psychopathic behavior. I would guess that if you gave a magnifying glass to a boy in the sun around ants, he would probably both burn his own finger and then see if it works on ants. As an adult, I would sit a kid down and explain why this behavior is wrong, but I wouldn't see the behavior as a precursor to larger scale problems to come. But i also agree that a child who grows up to be a psychopath, probably did start with something small like an insect.

HastingsChi · Jul 4, 2012

A new article provides some insights that I feel that might spur a most interesting discussion on Magnotta's psychology.

First some background:
Vice Magazine (originally launched as the Voice of Montreal) is a Canadian magazine and media conglomerate focused on international arts & culture. Vice is also known for championing the "Immersionist" school of journalism which has recently produced universally praised exposes on issues in North Korea, the Japanese nuclear crisis, mental disorders; among countless others.

Bruce LaBruce is a Canadian writer, filmmaker and photographer who is a contributing writer for Vice Magazine whose articles focus on culture, arts and GLBTQ issues.

With that understanding, I found it appropriate to share LaBruce's latest article for Vice Magazine which is the most interesting interview I've read with Magnotta's ex-Nina Arsenault.

From Vice Magazine 4 July 2012
By Bruce LaBruce
Wondering... An Interview with Nina Arsenault Continues
http://www.vice.com/en_ca/read/wondering-nina-arsenault-part-2

Topics covered include: Magnotta's gender identity, sexual trauma in the sex industry, the recipients of the human remains, Magnotta's multiple online personalities and many more.

I'd be interested in everyone's thoughts on this interview with Nina Arsenault.

Btw, part one of the interview which I didn't find interesting can be found here: http://www.vice.com/read/wondering-psychopathic-fame-monsters-part-2

CuriousRus · Jul 4, 2012

dotr said:
Welcome to WS!
I listened to the recordings several times
and was torn as to whether or not it was his voice.I now tend to think that it was him,not so much because of the voice tone, but because of how in both recordings,the man, LM? seems to be "parroting" the person with whom he is speaking.
The first caller's "hey man"is responded to with ,imo a slightly sarcastic "yeah man" and the reporter in second call is responded to in an (imo) affected, snobby, mid atlantic stretching of the vowels as in" that should be awwbveeous".ect.

Maybe it is the police and they got someone that sounded like him in order to obtain info from anyone that might call the number.

ToBeHonest · Jul 4, 2012

CuriousRus said:
I agree and your comment made me think of what he wrote on the closet door...the words could also be a conflict within himself. "If you don't like the reflection, don't look in the mirror. I don't care." It's almost like one personality is talking to another.

It sort of appears that he has this dominant personality that takes over his submissive side. If you exclude the sex on the killvid, based on what you've read, his escort ads, his photos, etc, wouldn't you be lead to believe he's submissive? Then he produces this horrific vid in which he is completely in dominant control. It just seems he has this dark voice in him that pops up and just takes over.

IA with this! Good point. It's so hard to make out who this guy is, he very dichotomous. What you are saying I have found odd also, for example, when he commits various crimes (dominant behavior), people who knew him reported he was very skittish and nervous about being caught thereafter (submissive behavior).

I am torn on the submissive/dominant nature of his escorting, I feel it could go either way. Yes, he was acting submissively in the act, but if he were someone who had been raped or sexually abused, re-enacting may have been his way of controlling the situation and 'taking back the power', so to speak?

Finally, even in reading about necrophilia, that is a crime of control with a non-consenting subject. However, it's debatable if he actually simulated that part of the act in his video, so that measure of control may have been an act also to make him appear in control of the shock value he was giving the 'customer'?

Perhaps he was faking dominance and control but actually felt very small inside?

Sierra20 · Jul 4, 2012

No_Stone_Unturned said:
I highly doubt anyone could have prevented this as sad as that is to admit. Psychopaths are products of their genes + environment. I suspect he was already torturing animals/insects from before he could read and write. Perhaps if someone had intervened way back then......but really what can you do? How would anyone know that (let's say) pulling the wings off a fly is not 'natural childood behaviour' rather than knowing the child was really enjoying hurting the insect?

Did that make any sense at all?

Yes it makes sense totally.
So do you think the family are in hiding since this happened? I'm sure they can not believe what has gone on, that it was their brother, son, cousin that did this etc!!!

ToBeHonest · Jul 4, 2012

CuriousRus said:
That's not normal childhood behavior, I mean the insect experimenting thing? I think that might be a little boy (and some girls) curiosity thing and not necessarily a sign things will escalate to larger animals or a seed for psychopathic behavior. I would guess that if you gave a magnifying glass to a boy in the sun around ants, he would probably both burn his own finger and then see if it works on ants. As an adult, I would sit a kid down and explain why this behavior is wrong, but I wouldn't see the behavior as a precursor to larger scale problems to come. But i also agree that a child who grows up to be a psychopath, probably did start with something small like an insect.

I was wondering this also, i don't think it may be fully 'normal' but it's not necessarily an indication that someone will be a psychopath. I am female but when I was pretty little (too young to understsand the concept of mortality) I heard worms regenerated and well, I cut them in half to see if they would grow back. Yes, I was a weird child, but when I got older and came to understand concepts of the permanence of mortality, etc, never did anything like that again, and in fact, cannot kill a fly these days.

I think this may be where some less aware parents fail to notice their child is abnormal and intervene early, they start small and then hide the bigger stuff when they become more aware of how outside of society's norms they are.

Sillybilly · Jul 4, 2012

OT, but don't know where to put it:

Why is THIS pic showing up with an article on computer virus?

http://www.theprovince.com/news/Ran...ousands+Canadian+computers/6882470/story.html

Armchair psych profile and personal background

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