Peru - Stephany Flores, 21, murdered in Lima hotel room, 30 May 2010 #20

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I dunno, epiphany... All good points, for sure. But when I watch that video and he's doing the fake knock thing then looks up toward the camera and his wrist goes limp, I think that's his first 'oh ' moment. Looks like he almost deflates for a moment at at his discovery of the camera. He disappears from view for a minute and then peers around the corner, looks directly at the camera to confirm. I think his plan at the time (with the two coffee cups in hand) was to enlist a witness (the hotel worker) to either establish that SF was still alive OR have him discover the body with him standing by in feigned shock. Obviously he didn't have a clear plan as he seems to be so hesitant and unsure of quite what to do when he first exits the room with the cups, turning around a few times, etc. At any rate, I think this was the first time he realized the camera was there.

Yep, LMAO--- he surely did deflate and prolly expelled too. LOL. Thx, Suzihawk.
 
I don't believe I ever said that the statements about a baseball bat and/or tennis racket came from the medical examiner. The baseball bat story only lasted a day or two, and was primarily promulgated by Nancy Grace. No one finds her less credible than I do, but quotes from her show are often posted here when discussing other aspects of this case. As for the tennis racket, I believe this was mentioned in numerous news reports out of Peru, not to mention the t.v. shows that cover this case.

The only time I've really ever asked for a link is when people continue to claim that Joran killed a dog, pushed a bum off a bridge, etc. These stories are merely the claims of anonymous Arubans. As I've pointed out, the same kinds of unpleasant tales were told about Beth- if anonymous Aruban citizens can be used to smear Joran, why is it inappropriate to use them to smear Beth?

On the other hand, all the reports I've referred to, regarding the crime scene, as well as other revolving but important claims (whether Joran put a "do not disturb" sign on the door, told the staff he'd be back in a few days, said not to disturb "his girl," etc.) all came from official news sources, often direct quotes from the chief of the Peruvian investigation or the medical examiner. To me, even a report from Nancy Grace's program is at a different level entirely than a rumor based on supposed claims of anonynous Arubans.

I will be happy to try and answer any questions you have.

[ame="http://websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=5331232&postcount=821"]Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - Joran Van der Sloot Confesses to Murdering Stephany Flores Ramirez #13[/ame]


From your post in the above link:

"I also counter the "fact" that Joran strangled Stephany with his own shirt with the previous "facts" that the murder weapon was a baseball bat, tennis racket or professional karate chop which broke her neck. All of these "facts" were not lost in translation, they came from the medical examiner or the chief of the investigation in Peru."

It is simply not true that you have not asked for links regarding the facts of this case, Unreals. It was just a day or so ago that you asked for (and received) a link to the Hotel Tac. And, no... I'm not going to chase down that link, like I just did above, to prove it. You've asked for (and received) many links from the posters of this forum. I stand by my opinion that you're taking advantage of the posters of this forum to do the research for your book.

I don't have (and won't have) any further questions of you.
 
here is all i can find about the room descriptions... not sure which type of room he had tho...anyone?

http://www.guiahostal.com/lima/hotel_tac.htm

Thanks, NN! From the translated link you provided:

... with 80 rooms. between simple, 'Premium Double, Vips with TV 21 - tv29 Flat Screen, Jacuzzi and shower himself...

It sounds as if only the premium rooms are equipped with a shower/bath.

It shows some pictures of a room with a bath and/or jacuzzi.

http://translate.google.com/translate?js=y&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&layout=1&eotf=1&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.guiahostal.com%2Flima%2Fhotel_tac.htm&sl=es&tl=en
 
Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - Joran Van der Sloot Confesses to Murdering Stephany Flores Ramirez #13


From your post in the above link:

"I also counter the "fact" that Joran strangled Stephany with his own shirt with the previous "facts" that the murder weapon was a baseball bat, tennis racket or professional karate chop which broke her neck. All of these "facts" were not lost in translation, they came from the medical examiner or the chief of the investigation in Peru."

It is simply not true that you have not asked for links regarding the facts of this case, Unreals. It was just a day or so ago that you asked for (and received) a link to the Hotel Tac. And, no... I'm not going to chase down that link, like I just did above, to prove it. You've asked for (and received) many links from the posters of this forum. I stand by my opinion that you're taking advantage of the posters of this forum to do the research for your book.

I don't have (and won't have) any further questions of you.

I said that they came from the medical examiner OR the chief of the investigation. I'm pretty certain the baseball bat was mentioned by the Peruvian police (at least for a day), but if it only came from Nancy Grace, then that is certainly a major television network. If I can't mention information broadcast from her show, then why does almost every poster here mention things they've seen on there? If discussion of the crime scene has to rely exclusively on sources you, or someone else here, trusts, then it seems to me that Nancy Grace, JVM, Geraldo, etc. should never be quoted on this forum. They obviously are, so why is my observation of the inconsistencies, reported by the same sources that provide the grist for virtually all the discussion on this forum, held to a different standard?

I did ask for the hotel link, and if I didn't thank the person who provided it, I apologize and do so now. I really don't recall asking for any other links, except when questioning the rumors about Joran's past crimes, which as far as I know can all only be traced to anonymous Arubans. I resent the fact that you believe I am here to ask people to do research for me- what do you think I've been doing for the past several months? We've done plenty of research, and have an abundance of evidence.

You keep saying I'm avoiding questions- what have I avoided? I told you that I can't give the names of any conspirators- how could I know that with any certainty? All I can do is use my prior knowledge of the events in Aruba, and assess the "facts" in this case as they are reported, and especially when they change. From all that, I have formed the theory that Joran was framed for the murder of Stephany, and that this was connected in some way to the Natalee Holloway case. I think I've made my views as clear as anyone else here. I haven't psychoanalyzed Joran from a distance with the confidence that many here have, or described in great detail exactly how he struck the blows, or what kind of fight Stephany put up, as others here have. That's fine- I'm not demanding that they provide proof for their scenarios.

My speculation is just as valid as yours, or anyone else's.
 
Thanks, NN! From the translated link you provided:

... with 80 rooms. between simple, 'Premium Double, Vips with TV 21 - tv29 Flat Screen, Jacuzzi and shower himself...

It sounds as if only the premium rooms are equipped with a shower/bath.

It shows some pictures of a room with a bath and/or jacuzzi.

http://translate.google.com/translate?js=y&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&layout=1&eotf=1&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.guiahostal.com%2Flima%2Fhotel_tac.htm&sl=es&tl=en

Thanks for that. I've been trying to contact the hotel to see if the room had a bath in it. This is crucial- if Joran's room had no bathroom, then it would have been impossible for him to clean up after this (at least the way it is being described now) bloody crime. If he left to clean up in the bathroom in the hall, then that should be visible on the video.

He certainly looked clean (and calm) when he left the hotel.
 
<respectively snipped>

My speculation is just as valid as yours, or anyone else's.

Absolutely! Your opinion is as valid as anyone else's on this forum. I've never said otherwise. :)
 
In Aruba, the Lion's Club is a fraternal order of men.....

Recently, Joran was telling someone:
"I consider myself a handsome guy.
I can meet the girls.
But, they don't want to leave with me."

Thanks Beatrice for the update on the Lion club.....didn't know that at all.

As for the last line posted regarding......(why would he say they don't want to leave with him???) or could this be just a mix up in the translation....

Where would he be taking them.......for them not wanting to leave with him.
[/U][/I]
 
The main problem I see, Unreals, is that your suppositions fly in the face of overwhelming amounts of evidence to the contrary. There are other threads where we debate back and forth as to whether we think someone is guilty or not. But, this is just so incredibly obvious. There is no conspiracy on earth that would set up a young girl to be killed, so that Joran could be bagged. I just don't believe that is possible. Further, were he innocent of even the Natalee case, he wouldn't have done so many things to make himself look guilty. That defies common sense. Innocent people do not behave as Joran has behaved for the last five years.
 
The main problem I see, Unreals, is that your suppositions fly in the face of overwhelming amounts of evidence to the contrary. There are other threads where we debate back and forth as to whether we think someone is guilty or not. But, this is just so incredibly obvious. There is no conspiracy on earth that would set up a young girl to be killed, so that Joran could be bagged. I just don't believe that is possible. Further, were he innocent of even the Natalee case, he wouldn't have done so many things to make himself look guilty. That defies common sense. Innocent people do not behave as Joran has behaved for the last five years.

But that's just it- he looks TOO guilty. Five year anniversary of Natalee's disappearance. A dead body left behind in a room registered in his name. A security camera right outside his room, catching the victim and Joran going in, and only him leaving. Few crimes are that cut and dry. Few murderers are that stupid.

If someone really, really wanted to get Joran, and finally punish him for a crime they think he commited and got away with, and wished for a perfect scenario, could Joran possibly have done a better job of granting their wish?
 
I do wish we had the room plan or even a "video tour" hint, hint media folks.

I would assume there was a shower, as Joran said he showered, but that could be wrong. It could have been a shower down the hall, a community shower.

When the Hotel Tac website was available, it showed a rather modern shower stall in photos of the rooms. I haven't been able to access the website recently.
 
But that's just it- he looks TOO guilty. Five year anniversary of Natalee's disappearance. A dead body left behind in a room registered in his name. A security camera right outside his room, catching the victim and Joran going in, and only him leaving. Few crimes are that cut and dry. Few murderers are that stupid.

If someone really, really wanted to get Joran, and finally punish him for a crime they think he commited and got away with, and wished for a perfect scenario, could Joran possibly have done a better job of granting their wish?

BBM ... I know....AMAZING isn't it....I can't argue with you there!
 
When the Hotel Tac website was available, it showed a rather modern shower stall in photos of the rooms. I haven't been able to access the website recently.

It shows some photos in this link, FLNY. But I'm not sure the shower stalls and baths are available in all rooms. I'm sure there was a sink and toilet in the 'economy' rooms, though. Sure would be nice to know for sure.

http://translate.google.com/translate?js=y&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&layout=1&eotf=1&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.guiahostal.com%2Flima%2Fhotel_tac.htm&sl=es&tl=en
 
here is all i can find about the room descriptions... not sure which type of room he had tho...anyone?

http://www.guiahostal.com/lima/hotel_tac.htm

Hi Nervous.....great link to the "Tacky" hotel.......pictures of the room are great.......

INM Joran took the cheapest room as per the Clerks transcript.....$50

If that is the case, I would imagine that his room didn't have the fancy shower stall.....but the tub kind as shown in the hotel room pictures.

I also noted that the bedspread in the pictures seem to be the same as the one found in Room 309. Most hotels have the same spread throughout all their rooms.....when they order them from their bedding supply company.

Again many thanks for posting this link.......thumbs up for you.
 
But that's just it- he looks TOO guilty. Five year anniversary of Natalee's disappearance. A dead body left behind in a room registered in his name. A security camera right outside his room, catching the victim and Joran going in, and only him leaving. Few crimes are that cut and dry. Few murderers are that stupid.

If someone really, really wanted to get Joran, and finally punish him for a crime they think he commited and got away with, and wished for a perfect scenario, could Joran possibly have done a better job of granting their wish?

I think it makes perfect sense if you consider that Joran probably didn't go to the room with the intention of killing her. He isn't that stupid. He lost his cool for some reason and beat her to death. Everything flows from there. He couldn't figure out a way to get rid of her body after he had already killed her and so took off. There would be no reason for him to flee Peru in the manner in which he did, if he had no involvement in the murder. He was scheduled to be at things that he didn't show up at. So, clearly he was intending to stick around until he up and killed Stephany.
 
I am shocked he didn't harm any of the hotel workers in a plight to destroy the videos when he looked up and noticed the camera in the hallway.
I sometimes wonder if that is what he may have been trying to do when he went and got the one hotel worker to let him in his room. Maybe , push the worker in there as he was unlocking the door for him and then go grab the video recordings and flee the hotel.
 
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