Bruce Jenner Becoming a Woman and more...#2

rob said:

I personally don't care what Bruce/Caitlin chooses to do, I would just say I'm sick of seeing, hearing, reading about it. It is being done in a big media play and turns me off even more, because it makes me question the motives.

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JMO I think there's probably no way for someone as famous as Bruce Jenner to transition quietly without a media storm. If Caitlyn wasn't giving interviews and telling her story in the reality show there'd be a lot of press anyway, paparazzis following her and "sources" sharing tidbits that may or may not be true and talking heads speculating about her. Doing it this way, at least she gets to tell her version of it in her own words and perhaps quieten some of the speculation.

If she just wanted more money and more press I suspect there'd be easier ways.

My real curiosity about it, I research and read about real people who go thru this, and it does not resolve their issues, and sometimes complicates their lives and make them worse. I also have read what the Johns Hopkins doctors have said about it being a mental issue instead of a physical issue, and a lot of that makes sense to me. Not being mean about it, and saying 'it's a mental issue', but is the person truly convinced this is the issue, and has not come to the conclusion prematurely, and then realized they made a mistake.

What if it is just a fetish/whim, they get turned on dressing up in female clothes, then going out into public to see if they can pass as a woman, then is isn't enough, and decide to go the ultimate, and 'become' a woman. I guess the keeping of the male equipment, and using it, when you believe you are a female seems odd to me also.
Too many sucides happen after the transformation, and many transform back to what gender they what started at.
Like I said before, to me personally, it doesn't matter, but it is truly not a cut-and-dried move on anyones part.
Hope I didn't offend anyone, not trying to.
All MOO only

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JMO again but I think that as we find out more and more about how the human mind works we will eventually have to do away with the distinction "it's a mental issue" vs. "it's a physical issue". There's no difference really, the things that happen in the mind happen in the brain and brain is a physical issue. Human beings are complex and the mind and the body don't work separately from each other.

In my opinion it's not at all surprising that everyone's all problems aren't solved by transitioning but it doesn't mean that it was just a whim or a fetish IMO, it just means that transitioning is not a magical cure-all. There may be previous comorbidity, and if the person has, say, longstanding depression and traumatical problems from the transgender issues, discrimination, bullying or relationship issues that they've faced because of it, perhaps addiction issues - that's not all going to magically vanish once they transition. For instance, chronic depression changes the brain in some ways and those changes may persist even if the transitioning goes otherwise well. Then again, it might not go so well. The surgical science is a work in progress and some people may exchange the issues with being wrong gender with a new set of issues with pain, physical and sexual dysfunction. Socially it's not all just a walk in the park either, there may be new relationship problems and fresh discrimination from people who don't take the news of the transitioning well. So it might be the new gender feels right but there's just too much of old crap and too much new crap to deal with and it doesn't bring happiness.


There should be counseling before transitioning to make sure it's really a transgender identity and not something else, but I suppose that can't be infallible. But somehow the whole thing seems like such a huge hassle and a potential can of worms that I have a hard time imagining many people making the decision lightly.

The genital surgery has a lot of risks and I think many people leave that last stage be because they don't want to deal with the complications if it doesn't go well and because ultimately it's not solely about the genitals but a larger identity issue.

Have you ever googled 'transgender regrets' or 'transgender reversals'. There are many stories, in many different countries, out there. After the body-altering surgery, its hard to go back, then you have new problems to live with.
Johns Hopkins, that was once a leader in this area, no longer does gender re-assignment surgeries, based on following the outcomes.
I don't want to bash anyone. I would hate to be in their shoes. It is just such an extreme measure.
I do not think Jenner is a 'hero'. I hope his celebrity doesn't cause others to move to quickly into this.

There is an increased risk of suicide attempts with or without the surgeries. I think there should probably often be more psychiatric follow-up and treatment after the surgery too. The outcomes are hard to study because there is no way to do a randomized double blind study and so it's often small numbers and anecdotal.

A couple of Swedish studies:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19816764/
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3043071/

Re: Regrets

"Virtually every modern study puts it below 4 percent, and most estimate it to be between 1 and 2 percent (Cohen-Kettenis & Pfafflin 2003, Kuiper & Cohen-Kettenis 1998, Pfafflin & Junge 1998, Smith 2005, Dhejne 2014). In some other recent longitudinal studies, none of the subjects expressed regret over medically transitioning (Krege et al. 2001, De Cuypere et al. 2006)."

Note: Huffington post contains the links to the studies (quicker to link to one article not saying Huffington Post is the authority)
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/brynn-tannehill/myths-about-transition-regrets_b_6160626.html

Don't some people have regrets about ordinary plastic surgery? I wonder if the rate of regrets is greater or less than for reasons of gender reassignment. All surgery has risks anyway, I don't think anyone should take it lightly no matter what the reason.

jjenny said:

I am just curious, as to why one would need multiple cosmetic surgeries in order to be one authentic self?
I find this kind of ironic.

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Have you never hear a woman say, "I don't feel like myself without my make-up?" Because I have.

Have you never heard a man say, "I don't feel like myself dressed up in a suit? I prefer jeans and a T-shirt"? Because I have said that myself.

Identity is complex for human beings and often involves not just irony, but the implementation of make-up, tattoos, clothes, a job, a church, a diamond ring, a family, and countless other factors that represent choices made to demonstrate one's persona.

Identity has to be PERFORMED to be communicated to others, and like any other performance, it sometimes requires props and costumes.

Roselvr said:

Did anyone see botched; where a trans guy said he had his breast implants removed because he didn't feel was in fact female? He grew up playing with dolls; identified as female until his 20's.

In the above Botched sneak peek, we meet Daniella "Two Spirits" Mendes.

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Such cases are very rare, based on my reading. And all they prove is that identity is very complicated for human beings.

Let a dog lose a limb and he will quickly learn to walk on three legs; his inner "dogness" isn't challenged. His love for his master/mistress isn't changed. But let a human man or woman lose a leg and the process of recovery is infinitely more complicated and involves more than merely relearning to walk.

Marshmallow said:

At a game the other night someone mentioned this and I said "I don't really care". Boy did it get quiet fast. Truth is, I really don't care. Not because I'm an "anynew'it'word-phobic". I don't care for the same reason I don't care what my neighbors do, beyond the obvious criminal acts I'd notice. I don't care what they do because I'm too busy living my own life to bother butting into their's. This latest pet cause topic will die down and a new one will become the hot gossip 'round the water cooler. The only reason it went all rabid is because it's a Kardashian.
My only thought is that I hope she (if the former Bruce Jenner wants to be referred to as 'she' now, that's okay with me. doesn't affect me much anyway) uses this pop topic time to really help the community she is a part of. It's easy for her, she has 'star 'power' behind her but the young person in the suburbs or the middle aged person in the business community won't have any stars making speeches and awards for bravery in the face of...
I respect her choices and those of either 'side' of the debate. I just don't care.

I don't care about what my neighbor chooses as their way of life as long as it isn't harming others. So I don't really give a flip over her.
However, she can use this as a time to focus on self and being a star or she can use her fame, past, further past, and present to help the ones who really have no voice. It's on her now.

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Good for you for minding your own business. But your claim that you "don't care" is betrayed by snide references to the "anynew'it'word-phobic" and "This latest pet cause topic". The term "transexuality" has been around since I was a child, more than half-a-century ago; the "T" was added to "gay and lesbian" at least 20 years ago in some circles as open transexuals (as opposed to mere cross-dressers) became more numerous.

Myself, I care about human suffering. And suffering based on prejudice and ignorance is the most unnecessary kind. No, I don't think we all have to make the struggle against prejudice our life's work and I believe that you don't go out of your way to hurt individuals. But when you announce you "don't care" about certain kinds of suffering, you unintentionally give aid and comfort to the ignorant.

rob said:

I personally don't care what Bruce/Caitlin chooses to do, I would just say I'm sick of seeing, hearing, reading about it. It is being done in a big media play and turns me off even more, because it makes me question the motives.
My real curiosity about it, I research and read about real people who go thru this, and it does not resolve their issues, and sometimes complicates their lives and make them worse. I also have read what the Johns Hopkins doctors have said about it being a mental issue instead of a physical issue, and a lot of that makes sense to me. Not being mean about it, and saying 'it's a mental issue', but is the person truly convinced this is the issue, and has not come to the conclusion prematurely, and then realized they made a mistake.
What if it is just a fetish/whim, they get turned on dressing up in female clothes, then going out into public to see if they can pass as a woman, then is isn't enough, and decide to go the ultimate, and 'become' a woman. I guess the keeping of the male equipment, and using it, when you believe you are a female seems odd to me also.
Too many sucides happen after the transformation, and many transform back to what gender they what started at.
Like I said before, to me personally, it doesn't matter, but it is truly not a cut-and-dried move on anyones part.
Hope I didn't offend anyone, not trying to.
All MOO only

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Rob, I'm not in the least offended by your post, but if you are so sick of the subject, what you are doing in this thread?

Nobody said transexuality isn't a mental "issue"; we were arguing it isn't a mental "disease", a very different matter.

As for suicides after surgery, there is despair after any procedure that seems to promise a panacea, a cure for all unhappiness. There is no such thing and, for that reason, suicides rise during the Christmas season as well, even though none of us would otherwise equate Christmas and surgery.

And what stats are you using? How many transexuals do commit surgery after gender-reassignment? How many commit suicide because no such surgery is available to them or because they have no social support for such a personal change? We need those figures before we can comment.

Finally, a "fetish" is not a bad thing unless it is so unusual it prevents the holder from achieving sexual satisfaction. Per Freud, for a man any attraction other than to the vagina is technically a fetish. So all you guys who like big breasts (or medium or small breasts) have a fetish. Ditto women who like tall men, broad shouldered men, or men with manicured nails. Big penises or small penises. I think we can agree that most of our society has by now fetishized thinness. Gay people can (and have been by Freud and others) be said to fetishize their own genitalia rather than its opposite.

I grew up watching images of clean-cut, corn-fed men on TV westerns. Although we lived in tropical and heavily Latino South Florida, my folks were from Kansas: dinner time was devoted to tales of the "golden" Midwest! I don't know when it happened, but I grew up attracted to Midwestern men. Not surprisingly, I married a dairy farmer from Wisconsin (though by the time we met, he had advanced degrees and had abandoned the farm). I don't make him slop hogs as an aphrodisiac, but to this day, his demeanor is extremely attractive to me (which isn't to say I never dated other types). Mine is clearly a fetish in Freudian terms; but what, exactly, is the harm?

So I don't understand all the "just a fetish" posts. So what?

What of all the transexuals who can only find work in the sex industries? Caitlyn is one of the lucky ones. I worked at an ad agency once where someone transitioned from male to female and they were quickly sacked, afterwards everybody laughed at their expense, even the bosses. It was disgusting, the person was a graphic designer, their job was skill based so transitioning did not effect their work even slightly, and this happened in the same inner city area of Sydney that hosts the Gay and Lesbian Mardi Gras, which just shows how far we have to go to achieve equal rights for transgendered people.

rob said:

Have you ever googled 'transgender regrets' or 'transgender reversals'. There are many stories, in many different countries, out there. After the body-altering surgery, its hard to go back, then you have new problems to live with.
Johns Hopkins, that was once a leader in this area, no longer does gender re-assignment surgeries, based on following the outcomes.
I don't want to bash anyone. I would hate to be in their shoes. It is just such an extreme measure.
I do not think Jenner is a 'hero'. I hope his celebrity doesn't cause others to move to quickly into this.

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Johns Hopkins may be motivated by financial concerns (malpractice insurance) as much as ethical concerns. You're not giving us many specifics to work with. But it's not as though we who have not had gender-reassignment surgery all lead hunky-dory lives...

vulture said:

Don't some people have regrets about ordinary plastic surgery? I wonder if the rate of regrets is greater or less than for reasons of gender reassignment. All surgery has risks anyway, I don't think anyone should take it lightly no matter what the reason.

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(Emphasis added.) Living here in the Plastic Surgery Capital of the World (Southern California) I can tell you many people SHOULD have regrets.

Thanks for the caution about taking any surgery lightly. I don't think those of us who support the right of choice are saying anyone should be cavalier about carving up his/her body!

Donjeta, I don't know where you got your expertise on this subject, but, damn!, if you aren't articulate! Maybe you should be a spokesperson.

Nova said:

Johns Hopkins may be motivated by financial concerns (malpractice insurance) as much as ethical concerns. You're not giving us many specifics to work with. But it's not as though we who have not had gender-reassignment surgery all lead hunky-dory lives...

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I come here because I consider myself (possibly foolishly) a part of this community. I like to see what others think about an issue, and state my beliefs. I can move on without it, no big deal.

The history and reasons for Johns Hopkins getting into and out of this issue are clearly stated online. Some of their experts were mis-stating results to keep the program open, but after research, the results were not so good so it was shut down. (that's just my condensing of what I read about it) In many peoples story online, they state that they were discouraged against speaking out about not being happy after conversion or deciding to convert back. If both sides of an issue are not allowed to be spoken about, can you ever really know the whole story?
The issue in itself is not what I'm sick of, but more the Kardishian way that it's being handled. I've had my say, I'll be moving on. No offense meant to anyone.
All MOO
http://narth.org/docs/johnhopkins.html

http://cnsnews.com/news/article/mic...atrist-transgender-mental-disorder-sex-change

http://www.sexchangeregret.com/

http://www.pfox.org/transgender-gender-identity/

The chemistry of Caitlyn: Video reveals how hormone therapy enables a man to become a woman

Video was produced by the American Chemical Society (ACS)
It details how levels of oestrogen and testosterone vary in men and women
ACS then explains how hormones are manipulated during gender transition
By VICTORIA WOOLLASTON FOR MAILONLINE

PUBLISHED: 06:24 EST, 9 June 2015 | UPDATED: 06:53 EST, 9 June 2015

Caitlyn Jenner wowed the world when she tweeted an image of her new look on the cover of Vanity Fair.

It was the result of months of successful hormone therapy and surgery as she transitioned from a man into a woman.

And now a video has revealed the chemistry behind gender transition by revealing how hormones are produced in males and females, and how altering these levels impacts the body.

[video=youtube;7-WatbSqlno]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7-WatbSqlno[/video]


Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencet...eveals-hormone-therapy-enables-man-woman.html

Nova said:

Rob, I'm not in the least offended by your post, but if you are so sick of the subject, what you are doing in this thread?

Nobody said transexuality isn't a mental "issue"; we were arguing it isn't a mental "disease", a very different matter.

As for suicides after surgery, there is despair after any procedure that seems to promise a panacea, a cure for all unhappiness. There is no such thing and, for that reason, suicides rise during the Christmas season as well, even though none of us would otherwise equate Christmas and surgery.

And what stats are you using? How many transexuals do commit surgery after gender-reassignment? How many commit suicide because no such surgery is available to them or because they have no social support for such a personal change? We need those figures before we can comment.

Finally, a "fetish" is not a bad thing unless it is so unusual it prevents the holder from achieving sexual satisfaction. Per Freud, for a man any attraction other than to the vagina is technically a fetish. So all you guys who like big breasts (or medium or small breasts) have a fetish. Ditto women who like tall men, broad shouldered men, or men with manicured nails. Big penises or small penises. I think we can agree that most of our society has by now fetishized thinness. Gay people can (and have been by Freud and others) be said to fetishize their own genitalia rather than its opposite.

I grew up watching images of clean-cut, corn-fed men on TV westerns. Although we lived in tropical and heavily Latino South Florida, my folks were from Kansas: dinner time was devoted to tales of the "golden" Midwest! I don't know when it happened, but I grew up attracted to Midwestern men. Not surprisingly, I married a dairy farmer from Wisconsin (though by the time we met, he had advanced degrees and had abandoned the farm). I don't make him slop hogs as an aphrodisiac, but to this day, his demeanor is extremely attractive to me (which isn't to say I never dated other types). Mine is clearly a fetish in Freudian terms; but what, exactly, is the harm?

So I don't understand all the "just a fetish" posts. So what?

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Well done you! We former cheeseheads are indeed irresistible. :biggrin:

Personally I think that most people who go through this think that happiness is on the other side and I think that mostly it is not. I think that this is something that we will find more about in 20 years when people who have been regender assigned have lived with it and then the after math of the surgery the life change and the repercussions are all known.

I don't know if this will make Jenner happy. I wonder if in 10 years we will still be here or Jenner will decide this was not the right thing in the end.

I think that people have a lot of ideas of what will make them happier and more satisfied but in the end they are chasing an illusion. I read a lot of stories in the last weeks about people who have gone through the surgeries and regretted in and wanted back.

SO I don't know. I do worry and wonder about children who may be pushed into this by their parents.

To me I am more interested in what time will tell us.

I agree the media coverage of Caitlyn is kind of over the top, but it's a more interesting story to me than a lot of bad news I could be reading. I hope it spreads awareness in some ways. I'm not a Kardashian fan but they are human beings and I don't wish suffering on them or any family members.

That is a good discussion about identity and what does it consist of. When I started taking ceramics classes in 2009 after 15 years of not doing any ceramics, I described the feeling to friends and family of "feeling like myself again". When I joined an outdoor club in 2011 and started kayaking and hiking and cycling with people, I described that the same way. I could have just said "it makes me happy" but I said "it makes me feel like myself". In certain clothes I feel uncomfortable, like I'm in a costume, and in some I feel normal. If what makes you feel normal brings you persecution, I can see how that would be painful.

It's my nature to save surgery as a last resort - I've never had any. I still have my wisdom teeth because there is nothing wrong with them, they are in all the way and normal and cause no discomfort (my mouth is big enough to fit all my teeth!). Despite dentists wanting me to have them out for many years I have always said no. I finally have a dentist now who agrees with me! There is not much risk to the surgery but there is some, and I've never been under anesthesia so I don't have any idea how I'll react to it. I'll save surgery for when I'm having a severe quality of life issue. I assume those who have chosen gender reassignment surgery have had severe quality of life issues, and I hope the outcome is good. If it's not I feel bad for them but that would not be a reason to criticize, if I knew someone like that I would try to support them, not try to make them feel worse about it. I've met a few transgendered people but only briefly and not in a situation where it was appropriate to ask them how they were doing and how they coped with it. I didn't know them well enough for that. But I would like to know, if I ever had the opportunity.

I've also met people in drag, while backstage getting ready for a drag show, and I realize that is not necessarily the same thing. They were open to talking about how they achieve the illusion, we talked about the makeup, how they do the padding, where they put the genital equipment, and things like that. I didn't ask them if they were thinking about transitioning, they were speaking as performers getting ready to do a show, so I just asked them about show related things since they seemed to like talking about it. It was fun looking at all the dresses and jewelry in the dressing room! And I saw the show - I enjoyed it, but while I thought it was weird, I didn't see it as a bad thing, just people having fun in a different way than I do. I guess I would go to one again if invited by a gay friend as I was on that occasion, there was nothing offensive about it, but it's not something I would seek out on my own.

Perhaps this is all less threatening to females than to males, I am female. I can relate to someone who likes guys, and makeup and jewelry! Of course all gay guys don't like makeup and jewelry or things that are particularly feminine. At one of my old jobs I made a cartoon diagram of the male brain to tease the guys I worked with and marked off 90% of the male brain as being occupied worrying whether people think they are gay! I don't think most straight women worry about that as much. What do you think?

I do know that my closest gay friend didn't come out to me until I had known him 6 years. I knew from day one from other people telling me that he was gay but he didn't know for sure if I knew and was nervous coming out to me. It shouldn't be like that, I hope it's getting better. Now he's a lot more comfortable, he writes gay-themed science fiction novels and is totally out.

I do understand that being gay, being transgendered or liking to dress in drag are not the same thing and they may overlap sometimes but not all the time, and whatever of those categories someone is in, I wish them well and hope they have supportive people around them.

michmi said:

To be honest, it bothers me that she is claiming womanhood and isn't a woman. I'm a woman. Caitlyn Jenner is not a woman.

There is no "fluidity" here, that is a load of crap that's being floated around in order to normalize that notion. Sexuality and gender IMO are not fluid. Just no. There are misguided people, there are people who have no self-awareness, yes--but I'm not buying the fluidity myth.

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Well, these notions don't come out of nowhere. Gender studies, religious studies, sociology, anthropology, etc., all completely disagree with your personal opinion that gender fluidity is a "myth". Thus, it is no coincidence that the more academic and cultural education one receives, the less likely they are to be black and white thinkers who make definitive pronouncements about extremely subtle and complex concepts that scholars spend not decades, but millennia, studying.

Ancient Israel (per Babylonian Talmud) had a 7 gender system. 7 genders. Male, female, born eunuch, made eunuch, androgyne, "tum tum", both males and females who developed "opposite sex" traits later in life, etc..

Rabbis stated that it could take up to 20 years for one's true gender to be revealed.

In ancient Greece, there was a three-gender system. In the first century CE, Greek physician Galen discussed how the notion of gender was fluid. He explained that the uterus was divided into chambers, veering from the cool side to the warm side and where the "seed" fell determined whether person would be male, female, a male female or female male or a "hermaphrodite".

So yeah, it may feel like a myth to those who either haven't studied, do not know gender fluid persons or simply find it difficult to grasp concepts that are subtle, but that doesn't erase thousands of years of study and development.

Momoffourboys said:

I, honestly, believe everyone and anyone should be who they choose to be and find happiness. I have an issue with Bruce/Caitlyn doing the interviews, VF spreads, and reality shows. Just as I have an issue with the Kardashians doing the same. But that has nothing to do with him/her being he or she. JMO.

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I know trans persons who are totally ecstatic that Caitlyn Jenner has come out in this way. Whether we like Caitlyn or the Kardashian publicity machine or not, it gives visibility and legitimacy to an issue that has been hidden i the dark by American society for far too long.

jjenny said:

How did she marry a man when Jenner says he always believed himself to be a woman?

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Because he perception of Caitlyn was as a man and Caitlyn lived as a man and did not reveal herself to her.

Nova said:

And you know any of that how, exactly?

Do you have any understanding of how complicated sexual reassignment surgery is and how imperfect the results using current technology? And how expensive?

***

But to qualify my last post to you, a lawyer friend who was visiting today says she thinks courts will have trouble with the argument that a person can self-define his/her sex merely by choosing to perform as the opposite gender. She thinks courts will want something more definitive, such as genital surgery. (One can imagine the question in court: "What is to stop any pervert who wants to see women pee from putting on a dress and claiming to be female?")

So while I think you are wrong about the reality (of genitalia determining sex and gender), you may well prove right about the law.

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Ha ha! That's a question Michelle Duggar has discussed in her anti-trans "restroom" legislation robocall recently. But it doesn't apply here.

I helped a young trans man navigate the legality of legally transitioning recently. No surgery of any kind is required for this. Hormones aren't even required. A definitive diagnosis after a lengthy treatment/assessment period, is, however.

michmi said:

I don't care how difficult it is. It doesn't have any bearing on my life at all. I think I'm just sick of seeing this everywhere and nobody pointing out that he was a bad parent, it can be debated into infinity whether the wives knew before they married him or not.

I know I saw with my own eyes the episode of KUWTK and Kris flat-out told Bruce he had lied to her and had portrayed it as merely crossdressing. Bruce didn't say a word denying that.

So there's something you tolerate (dressing in women's clothing in private) because you love someone and then there's someone hiding this huge secret that would have sent your life in an entirely different direction had you known before.

I think I'm just wore out on the subject. I don't have a horse in the race but for all those who want everyone to just accept these things, I can tell you that while I will appear to accept in a public setting, it's only to pacify those who want to force everyone to open their welcoming arms to this stuff. Not me.

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It's called "passing" and yeah, it is a form of dishonesty. But due to society, people have felt they had no choice. In fact, for many, society's lessons were so well learned that they had a hard time accepting, coming to terms with or even understanding their own identities, for decades. (This applies to sexuality, gender and even race).

I choose to have compassion and to understand that my life may not be another's. That an individual born into an era in which the concept of being "gay" was shrouded in evil and the word "transgender" wasn't even part of the lexicon outside of a few obscure academic papers, may take a minute to understand who he or she really is. I choose to realize that things that have no bearing on my own life have a huge impact on others and that as exhausting as the subject may seem to me, it's much worse for those who have to live it.

Life just isn't always the same for everyone.

jjenny said:

I am just curious, as to why one would need multiple cosmetic surgeries in order to be one authentic self?
I find this kind of ironic.

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To correct what they feel was a betrayal of the body. See below:

rob said:

I personally don't care what Bruce/Caitlin chooses to do, I would just say I'm sick of seeing, hearing, reading about it. It is being done in a big media play and turns me off even more, because it makes me question the motives.
My real curiosity about it, I research and read about real people who go thru this, and it does not resolve their issues, and sometimes complicates their lives and make them worse. I also have read what the Johns Hopkins doctors have said about it being a mental issue instead of a physical issue, and a lot of that makes sense to me. Not being mean about it, and saying 'it's a mental issue', but is the person truly convinced this is the issue, and has not come to the conclusion prematurely, and then realized they made a mistake.
What if it is just a fetish/whim, they get turned on dressing up in female clothes, then going out into public to see if they can pass as a woman, then is isn't enough, and decide to go the ultimate, and 'become' a woman. I guess the keeping of the male equipment, and using it, when you believe you are a female seems odd to me also.
Too many sucides happen after the transformation, and many transform back to what gender they what started at.
Like I said before, to me personally, it doesn't matter, but it is truly not a cut-and-dried move on anyones part.
Hope I didn't offend anyone, not trying to.
All MOO only

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Interestingly, as children who were allowed to transition pre-puberty grow up, the rates of suicide, depression, etc., are going down in this community. With hormone blockers, they don't have to develop into a gender they're not.

The problem is that while more and more trans persons are accepting of certain secondary sex characteristics they developed in puberty, many still are not. They feel as if they are trapped in the wrong body. And it can begin before puberty, with little kids looking at their penises and trying to cut them off out of a sense of deep alienation and foreignness.

But imagine, all your life, you feel you are female. Inside, you're a girl. But your parents name you Bobby, and dress you like a boy, and anything you may do or express or like that others deem "girlish", is ridiculed or criticized or prohibited.

So you start to keep certain things hidden, while at the same time, you can look in the mirror and see that with just a change of hair and clothing, you would easily appear to be who you know you are.

Then puberty hits. The little boy who is not that different physically from a little girl, except the genitalia, suddenly shoots up to 6 feet tall, with a jutting adam's apple, hands and feet that grow large and bulky, coarsened skin, a voice that becomes permanently deep.

Years later, when you realize you can be who you are, you transition. But how can you erase the effects of puberty?

I don't think it is a coincidence that few FTM persons struggle post-surgery. A person born female can change their voice and bodies with hormones, to better match the gender they feel, than a person born male. Just looking at the videos linked her it is easy to see that FTM can go undetected while "a man in a dress" cannot as easily. And so while a MTF goes into transition with high hopes, when they come out, for many it is still obvious to society and to themselves that they retain the characteristics of the biologic sex they were born with. So the results of the transition may be far less than desired or expected.

One last thing, in cultures, where a third gender or trans persons are accepted or gender norms aren't as black and white, (Samoa, Thailand, e.g.), trans person's rates of depression, suicide and body dysmorphia seem to be much less.