trial thread: 3/28/2012

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If Mr is guilty of all that he is being charged with he certainly was sloppy when he placed himself in all those places where there were security camera's on his way to do the dirty deed...if the intention was to rape and murder this child one would think that would be the first priority (which is usually the case in these type of crimes)...the other things could wait until after the deed was done..well all except the hammer and the garbage bags...MOO..
 
The car wash is Arthur, ON is also just a self wash bay, no attendant, no office and no convenient store nearby.

Fergus - I cannot picture where the car wash is.
 
Oldsoul2 said:
I have to agree, not only that but TLM said to the interrogator, if anyone watched the video of the original confession that was posted, "you know,he knew what he was doing" with all these little details, it really makes me wonder that if this was in fact his first offense (I don't mean what he caught with persay) I mean the first time he's done this, he's pretty calculating with the details. Doesn't appear that he's only been in this situation once by driving the car backwards to cover tracks, preparing a change of clothes, telling her what to say to LE etc...
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I love your name--->oldsoul2

bbm

I think MR fantisized for a long time about doing something sexually deviant
who knows if it's the first time he acted on it.

Fantasies sometimes involve situations which are impossible (such as the existence of magic powers) or highly unlikely, or they may be more realistic. Fantasies can also be sexual in nature. Another, more basic meaning of fantasy is something which is not real, or cannot be real.

So many crime shows are giving perps knowledge on all kinds of cover-up's tactics. It appears to get harder and harder to catch them these days


jmo
 
What about gas stations that have a few coin operated car wash bays?
Can anybody remember the description of the car wash? Was it a coin op? Was it a stand alone? Did we even get much of a description?
I assume LE covered all of this but I don't remember hearing the finer details.
 
antiquegirl said:
I'm wondering if MTR went back for the shoes, why he would remove his, but not TLM's. One could speculate all sorts of things about this, but IMO, he would have taken away both pairs.

It's too bad Lillian couldn't remember the exact date of when she found the shoes. The closer to the abduction date, the less likely MTR had time to look and find them.

They threw other clothes and evidence into a dumpster and garbage can at the car wash. It must have seemed like a sound decision at the time. MTR would have had to go back to retrieve those pretty quickly, as those containers get emptied often. Daily? Every second day? Weekly? Regardless, I think he was safer leaving them there than being spotted dumpster diving, opening garbage bags at a car wash. That would be pretty conspicuous (and disgusting) and he'd have a lot to answer for if questioned.

It's my personal opinion only that MTR did not go back to retrieve any evidence. Why make the decision to throw shoes out the car window and other evidence into the garbage at the car wash, only to risk going back to find them? Then what? He'd just have to dispose of them again.

JMO
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Because he knew that if LE went looking for these and found them that he would be toast! Knowing that the shoes were in that area, and knowing that TLM might tell police about them which might in turn prompt police to scour the area, if he did go back for them then he'd have figured it would not matter where he discarded them (again) so long as he got rid out of them anywhere as long as anywhere was far away from where he knew they'd be searching!:moo: :jail:
 
Oldsoul2 said:
What I want to know is who was he texting at that bank machine, I can clearly see he was typing, what was so important in the middle of an abduction?
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It could be also that someone texted him and he responded :)
 
matou said:
Why did no one ask the witness (Crown OR defense) if the shoes looked like there was blood on them or if they had mud on them? The witness held on to TLM's shoes and meant to donate them to Salvation Army, it's a good thing she didn't. This makes me think she may have found them closer to the end of May, when police were asking residents for information. JMO
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Agreed. This would also make me think twice about shopping at places like Good Will or Value Village for second hand items! You just never know who had those items before you did or what they have been through, no matter how clean they look.:what:
 
Blueginger said:
I have been lurking for a while, wanting to post but had a difficult time gathering my thoughts. I figured I will just put my two cents out there no matter how unorganized it may be.
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:welcome5:
 
How is the variety store related to the car wash again? TIA
 
I think if the one shoe was important to the case they would have talked further about it, however they didnt ask if there was blood on it so it makes me wonder if something about this will be brought up later.

Although TLM is not a credible witness because of the lies, I think the crown is showing where she is credible and it will be up to the jury to decide if they believe her or not.
 
maxfactor said:
If I remember correctly she cut the seat after the car wash, they may have tried to clean the seat there but it was still stained. I hope LE has the actual blue handled knife she used.
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Good point Max about the knife. I have seen pictures of it, so LE probably do have it. MOO. Too bad the other items were not found as that would have been great evidence to test. I'm not worried though as I feel there is enough evidence to put MR away for his part in Tori's death. MOO

She told the court she and Rafferty placed the murder weapon, a hammer, into a garbage bag along with her white jacket and his T-shirt, which both contained blood. The bags also contained empty water bottles, Tori's clothing and her Bratz backpack.

The two then drove to a car wash in Cambridge, Ont., where they threw this "evidence" into a Dumpster. They cleaned the outside and inside of the car, and later tossed their shoes onto Highway 401, she said.

McClintic also took a knife and cut out pieces of the car's back seat where there were still stains, she said. The pair changed into new clothing before returning to Woodstock that evening. Police have recovered both the shoes and the new clothing.

Read more: http://www.canada.com/news/Tori+Sta...ything+video/6300744/story.html#ixzz1qS6dmn5o
 
Kamille said:
Well if you compare the writing to TLM's journal, you can see that it was not her that wrote the address and phone number on the cigarette package. TM testified that it wasn't her but no one asked her if it was JG did they? Perhaps he is going to testify later regarding evidence? So it was likely either him or Carol that wrote that. Probably Carol.

MOO
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Also, the two writings are different.
 
matou said:
I really have to think these two drove to Mount Forest after this happened. Why would they go to Cambridge? Doesn't make sense to me. JMO
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I totally agree... and really after they murdered a little girl are they going to be driving all over the place?? probably not. JMO
 
swedie said:
Good point Max about the knife. I have seen pictures of it, so LE probably do have it. MOO. Too bad the other items were not found as that would have been great evidence to test. I'm not worried though as I feel there is enough evidence to put MR away for his part in Tori's death. MOO

She told the court she and Rafferty placed the murder weapon, a hammer, into a garbage bag along with her white jacket and his T-shirt, which both contained blood. The bags also contained empty water bottles, Tori's clothing and her Bratz backpack.

The two then drove to a car wash in Cambridge, Ont., where they threw this "evidence" into a Dumpster. They cleaned the outside and inside of the car, and later tossed their shoes onto Highway 401, she said.

McClintic also took a knife and cut out pieces of the car's back seat where there were still stains, she said. The pair changed into new clothing before returning to Woodstock that evening. Police have recovered both the shoes and the new clothing.

Read more: http://www.canada.com/news/Tori+Sta...ything+video/6300744/story.html#ixzz1qS6dmn5o
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Wow she was messed up on all those drugs if she thought she was on the 401 when they were on hwy 6 (as this is where the shoes were found on Sideroad 6 just off of Hwy 6) or she lied.

Im thinking Cambridge is a lie as well...the pair would have gone through Fergus, there is a sign just as you come into Fergus on hwy 6 for the car wash. If you look at the link from Matou, this car wash is visble with the sign, but hidden behind other businesses. There is also a dumpster and a store right nearby.
 
maxfactor said:
If I remember correctly she cut the seat after the car wash, they may have tried to clean the seat there but it was still stained. I hope LE has the actual blue handled knife she used.
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The blue knife might have blood dna or other kinds of dna on it still.
 
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