09-17-2011 Topaz Mountain Search Yields Charred Wood and Decomp

New Posts

I think, from now on, LE should avoid making a big deal over searches, dog hits, location, etc. It's not fair to the family.
 
HatesSociopaths said:
Regarding thread title, I listened to the press conference today and did not hear police say that the search yielded human decomposition. That's a major point - could this be clarified? TIA.
Click to expand...
"These charred pieces had something to do with decomposition," said West Valley Police Lt. Bill Merritt...

As for how human decomposition got on the charred pieces, Merritt said, "There are so many different scenarios of what it could be."

It was unlikely the apparent wood gave the cadaver dogs a "false positive," Merritt stated. The cadaver dogs are trained to detect human decomposition as opposed to flakes of dead skin. He also noted it was interesting that the charred pieces were found buried about 2 ½ feet in the ground.
Click to expand...
bbm
http://www.ksl.com/index.php?nid=148&sid=17284572
 
I am trying to catch up on my phone. Living in Utah, the only thing that is being considered right now in many reidents minds is whether BYU will win or Utah.

I am still praying for Chuck Cox, Susan, and for her two innocent children.
 
It's hard to burn a body. So maybe a perp *tried* to burn a body, laying it on the wood, attempting to set the body & wood afire, but discovered it's much harder than they thought.

Meanwhile, blood and/or fluids are seeping down onto - and into - the wood, and the wood is becoming partially burned on its surface (charred).

The perp decides to take the body away and dispose of it elsewhere and in another manner. He leaves the wood in the pit/grave/hole, buries it, and takes the body elsewhere.

The dogs would hit on the blood/fluid in the non-burned parts of the charred wood.

(I'm never going to sleep tonight trying to figure this out lol.)
 
In the previous thread someone was making a comparison to bad tuna in the fridge and decomp, how the smell can get on other things. I take from this example that the smell could have gotten onto the wood chips, but actual decomp, not necessarily.

MOO.
 
BeanE said:
Separating your murder weapon disposal site from your victim disposal site reduces the risk of the weapon used being tied to you, the victim, and the crime.


I wouldn't think any blood or fluids or tissue would survive, but the dogs are hitting on those pieces of burnt wood. Something survived the fire, or eleven dogs all got false hits. Or all eleven dogs didn't hit, and we are being misled. Or the hits were hitting on something else that was there besides the charred wood, and we are being misled.

I'm going nuts trying to figure out how HRD dogs could hit on a pile of 100 pieces of charred wood.

Maybe the answer is in the use of the word "charred". I'd been thinking "burnt to a crisp - almost cinders".

Maybe the wood pieces were just slightly burnt here and there, and other parts of the wood are just fine - with blood and fluids not burned at all - and that's what the dogs are hitting on.

charred
1. Partially burn (an object) so as to blacken its surface.
2. (of an object) Become burned and discolored in such a way.
Click to expand...
There were 100 pieces of wood ranging in size from a dime to a golf ball, not quite cinders, but in a state beyond "charred".

That's why I believe for any decomp material to survive, there had to be a large volume to begin with.
 

Attachments

  • CHARRED WOOD.JPG
    CHARRED WOOD.JPG
    24 KB · Views: 27
It was unlikely the apparent wood gave the cadaver dogs a "false positive," Merritt stated. The cadaver dogs are trained to detect human decomposition as opposed to flakes of dead skin. He also noted it was interesting that the charred pieces were found buried about 2 ½ feet in the ground.



ummmm... what's "apparent" wood?
 
BeanE said:
It's hard to burn a body. So maybe a perp *tried* to burn a body, laying it on the wood, attempting to set the body & wood afire, but discovered it's much harder than they thought.

Meanwhile, blood and/or fluids are seeping down onto - and into - the wood, and the wood is becoming partially burned on its surface (charred).

The perp decides to take the body away and dispose of it elsewhere and in another manner. He leaves the wood in the pit/grave/hole, buries it, and takes the body elsewhere.

The dogs would hit on the blood/fluid in the non-burned parts of the charred wood.

(I'm never going to sleep tonight trying to figure this out lol.)
Click to expand...
Which is what I posted a little while ago, though in less detail. :)
 
BeanE said:
It's hard to burn a body. So maybe a perp *tried* to burn a body, laying it on the wood, attempting to set the body & wood afire, but discovered it's much harder than they thought.

Meanwhile, blood and/or fluids are seeping down onto - and into - the wood, and the wood is becoming partially burned on its surface (charred).

The perp decides to take the body away and dispose of it elsewhere and in another manner. He leaves the wood in the pit/grave/hole, buries it, and takes the body elsewhere.

The dogs would hit on the blood/fluid in the non-burned parts of the charred wood.

(I'm never going to sleep tonight trying to figure this out lol.)
Click to expand...
:rocker:

My thinking.... exactly.
 
bessie said:
There were 100 pieces of wood ranging in size from a dime to a golf ball, not quite cinders, but in a state beyond "charred".
Click to expand...

I see the picture of those 2 pieces of wood, but there could be up to 98 others that are not as burnt.

Did you see something saying the wood was "beyond" charred? I've only seen "charred" and "blackened".

But then, I've also seen "apparent" wood. lol.

ETA: If anyone comes across a pic of the pile of wood, would you post it or post a link to it please? TIA
 
At the end of the day, I can't come up with any plausible reason as to why someone would go through all the trouble of burying a mere "campsite".
 
BeanE said:
Hmmmm... suppose you whacked your spouse in the head with a piece of firewood from next to your fireplace, and she died, and fell on the floor, leaving a spot you had to clean up (wet spot w/fans). Then I suppose you'd want to take that firewood with the blood and tissue on it somplace maybe and burn it, and bury it. Later, some HRD dogs though could hit on it because of the blood and tissue on it.

I wonder if there's a fireplace in the room where that wet spot was, or in a nearby room, and if so, where the firewood was kept in relation to it.

Let's pray for some DNA off the firewood.
Click to expand...

BBM Somewhere in the Susan threads there is a floor plan of the house; my eyes keep shutting while I'm trying to look for it, been up since 4:30am.
 
Hmmmm... what if someone pee-ed on the wood? Do HRD dogs hit on urine-soaked wood?

Perhaps one of our verified SARs will test that out. :)

ETA: I was trying to explain to myself a possible camping scenario versus body disposal scenario that could account for all this.
 
From what I know and have been told by friends who have done SAR work with HRD dogs... urine will not make them indicate on a site.
 
Darn! I was hoping for more than charred wood! :/

I think they said "apparent" because that's what they assume it to be and will confirm by further testing?

I'm thinking he either tried to burn the body like was mentioned above or that he burned her clothing which would have decomp on them. Clothes would burn up completely, no?

I feel pretty strongly this has to do with this case. I can't think for any other reason why campfire ashes would be buried in a 2.5ft hole other than something nefarious. There is something in those ashes that wasn't wanted found. It's too coincidental that it's that close to where he was.

I'm curious about camping in these areas. Can you just drive your car off the road and camp where ever you'd like? No specific camping zones?

One more thing...can someone tell me what the deal was with the rental car?? He left to go camping with the boys in the van? Then he got a rental car when? TIA.
 
Taminator said:
At the end of the day, I can't come up with any plausible reason as to why someone would go through all the trouble of burying a mere "campsite".
Click to expand...

Girl scouts say to make sure the fire is out...and throw plenty of dirt on it.:innocent:
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

DNASolves

Who is Escambia County John Doe (1989)?

Members online

... and 216 more.
Total: 4,733 (members: 217, guests: 4,516)

Online statistics

Members online
217
Guests online
4,516
Total visitors
4,733
Totals may include hidden visitors.

Forum statistics

Threads
592,347
Messages
17,967,862
Members
228,753
Latest member
Cindy88
Back
Top