17 yo Trayvon Martin Shot to Death by Neighborhood Watch Captain #33

grandmaj said:

I agree with this opinion in concept. However, in a case of alleged murder, if by some chance I got potential evidence, I think I would have turned it over to the investigators and stopped there.

Because if it really is evidence, providing it to the media is an attempt to involve oneself and then claim anonymity. Either you stand behind your picture or you do not. If the person provided it to Investigators and it ended there, I'd have less question about motivation of the person who took the picture.

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But we don't know that if it hasn't been turned over to investigators. It's been speculation one way or the other based on the line in the article that said 'investigators are aware of the photo'. People can spin that line either way but unless LE comes straight out and said 'yes that photo was provided to us', we really don't know if it was provided.

LambChop said:

Why would someone threaten them for taking a picture? I do not think anyone has threatened witnesses in this case. The picture is what it is. If someone were really afraid they never would have released the picture to the media in the first place. There could only be just so many people that could have taken that picture and since LE claimed GZ was in custoday at 7:17 when Ofc. Smith arrived a picture taken at 7:19 showing GZ on a cell phone might be a concern for the police department. A person hiding their identity leads people to believe this picture is not what it appears to be. Why else would someone disassociate themselves from it? Sets that old hinky meter into overdrive. jmo

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I think it has been well established that GZ's friends and family have recieved death threats.

I would not come forward shouting to the world that I provided the photo that proved GZ had injuries to the back of his head that night.

NO WAY

magnolia said:

I agree with you. It is a mess. However, in a court of law, "who is responsible for how it ended" will be more important than "who is responsible for how it began". In my lay opinion

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We already know who was responsible for how it ultimately ended. GZ pulled a trigger, and shot and killed Trayvon. Who was responsible for how it began has everything to do with how it ended and the responsiblity for how it ended. A jury will get to judge whether GZ's actions of following and confronting Trayvon is more believable than Trayvon hiding and jumping GZ. Everything that led up to the gunshot is going to play in the jury's decision. They're not going to ignore everything that led up to it and just focus on the last few seconds. At least, I would hope not.

Kimberlyd125 said:

And who smiles after being arrested?
That would make no sense IMO.

I could just see how the coversations would go if he were cheesing it up in his mug shot, his first court date, or his bond hearing!
People would be talking about that for sure.

IMO I would not be grinning after I was arrested either.

JMO

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I read all the reactions on FCA first shots were after she was arrested and folks were going up the wall with the reactions.

I don't blame him for looking out of it.

Kimberlyd125 said:

And who smiles after being arrested?
That would make no sense IMO.
...

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Tom Delay did.

Wow, 2 months ago today, Trayvon was murdered. It's really too bad it took so long to get the process of justice started. God bless Sybrina, Tracy, and Jahvaris, and the rest of Trayvon's family and friends. My thoughts and prayers are with them each and every day.


http://www.nypost.com/rw/nypost/2012/04/07/oped/web_photos/trayvon_martin02--300x300.jpg


~jmo~

cityslick said:

But we don't know that if it hasn't been turned over to investigators. It's been speculation one way or the other based on the line in the article that said 'investigators are aware of the photo'. People can spin that line either way but unless LE comes straight out and said 'yes that photo was provided to us', we really don't know if it was provided.

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I understand. And I believe that at some point or perhaps even first it might have been turned over. Difficult to know that.

That is not my point. My point is, good evidence is preserved for a court of law. If you are really afraid of your safety why go to the press? What is the motivation to provide this picture to the press anonymously . If it was safely in the hands of the investigators what purpose did releasing this to the media serve? And could this picture be thrown out as possible evidence as a result?

If I got myself willingly involved in a case, I certainly would stand on my reputation and not hide. The motivation has to be considered IMO. I question what this person's reason is for rushing this to the media on the day of the bond hearing.

annalia said:

There have been legal analysts and TH's who have spoken in favor of the prosecution. Don't know their names but on JVM there were those who spoke after the bond hearing who said the prosecution did just fine at the hearing.

There have also been legal analysts and TH's who have said that SYG doesn't apply to GZ.

From all the shows I've watched, there always seems to be pro and con, and they seem anything but cautious, lol, they get pretty loud at times, I haven't really seen that the majority favor one over the other.

That's why what these talking heads say, Alan Dershowitz included, shouldn't be taken as gospel. They are all speculating.

JMHO

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I do separate the TH's "media people" from the Attorney's when listening for facts as they pertain to a case. Th's for the most part are just that, then there's the lawyers, Prosecutors and then Defense and this is where I remind myself when they speak they are speaking as the Lawyer they are. The Lawyers are the ones I want to talk, the Th's can... nevermind jmo

cityslick said:

There's not a whole lot of people in this world who show 'young and full of life' after they get arrested though.

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That is not what I meant. Sheesh. Of course he's not going to be smiling after he got arrested. No one is happy about that unless they just don't care, like Casey. What I mean is that he had a good life and was happy before he decided to shoot someone and things didn't go his way. He's not the hero anymore. He's a child killer. That has to be weighing on him. I'd rather he be in jail than out on his own. I fear he might not make it to trial if he slips into a depression. Like I said, his eyes looked deadened, like all the joy has gone out of him. It's a stark contrast to his previous pictures. It shows that all of this is weighing on him, and he might choose to kill himself rather than face an actual trial.

I never ever said that he should have had a happy mugshot. Please don't take my words out of context like that. Whatever side we're on, there should be concern for GZ's wellbeing.

elementary said:

Actually, how do we reconcile the three?

"In 2004, Zimmerman partnered with an African-American friend and opened up an Allstate insurance satellite office, Donnelly said.Then came 2005, and a series of troubles. Zimmerman's business failed, he was arrested, and he broke off an engagement with a woman who filed a restraining order against him.
<snip>
In 2007 he married Shellie Dean, a licensed cosmetologist, and in 2009 the couple rented a townhouse in the Retreat at Twin Lakes. Zimmerman had bounced from job to job for a couple of years, working at a car dealership and a mortgage company. At times, according to testimony from Shellie at a bond hearing for Zimmerman last week, the couple filed for unemployment benefits.
Zimmerman enrolled in Seminole State College in 2009, and in December 2011 he was permitted to participate in a school graduation ceremony, despite being a course credit shy of his associate's degree in criminal justice. Zimmerman was completing that course credit when the shooting occurred.."

http://usnews.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2...relude-to-the-shooting-of-trayvon-martin?lite

So was he going to school full time or working or both? Nowhere does it mention that in the recent past he had a job or what that job was. Maybe I missed it somewhere.:waitasec:

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I did find verification that GZ was licensed as an insurance agent in Florida:
Name of Licensee: ZIMMERMAN, GEORGE MICHAEL
License #: E007947
Business Location: ALTAMONTE SPRINGS,FLORIDA
Types and Classes of Valid Licenses
Type Original: GENERAL LINES (PROP & CAS)(0220)
Issue Date: 11/10/2004
Qualifying Appointment: NO
http://www.myfloridacfo.com/Data/AAR_ALIS1/index.htm

I don't seem that he had a business name for an insurance company, though I did find a George Michael Zimmerman who had a pressure wash company with a fictitious name in Lake Mary beginning in 2008 and still active. http://www.sunbiz.org/search.html

I don't think he could be an underwriter without a license. I'm not sure about being a 'fraud investigator' or whatever they called it.

IMO, JMO, etc.

Not sure if this has been posted:

http://www.cfnews13.com/content/new...icles/cfn/2012/4/26/zimmerman_community_.html

Amid George Zimmerman case, communities meet in Sanford, Orlando

SANFORD --
The case against George Zimmerman and the shooting death of 17-year-old Trayvon Martin has prompted two new gatherings Thursday: One over Florida's "Stand Your Ground" law, and the other to try and heal the divided community of Sanford.

A NEIGHBORHOOD IN FEAR

By the summer of 2011, Twin Lakes was experiencing a rash of burglaries and break-ins. Previously a family-friendly, first-time homeowner community, it was devastated by the recession that hit the Florida housing market, and transient renters began to occupy some of the 263 town houses in the complex. Vandalism and occasional drug activity were reported, and home values plunged. One resident who bought his home in 2006 for $250,000 said it was worth $80,000 today.

At least eight burglaries were reported within Twin Lakes in the 14 months prior to the Trayvon Martin shooting, according to the Sanford Police Department. Yet in a series of interviews, Twin Lakes residents said dozens of reports of attempted break-ins and would-be burglars casing homes had created an atmosphere of growing fear in the neighborhood.

In several of the incidents, witnesses identified the suspects to police as young black men. Twin Lakes is about 50 percent white, with an African-American and Hispanic population of about 20 percent each, roughly similar to the surrounding city of Sanford, according to U.S. Census data.

One morning in July 2011, a black teenager walked up to Zimmerman's front porch and stole a bicycle, neighbors told Reuters. A police report was taken, though the bicycle was not recovered.

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http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/04/25/us-usa-florida-shooting-zimmerman-idUSBRE83O18H20120425


This article mentions the burglaries 14 months prior to TM shooting, what about more recent accounts...and all are involving 'black' persons...

I believe this personal attack of GZ's property is another reason GZ over reacted as he did, besides the mentality of not wanting another to get away. Is this what fueled the fear in this community? Is this the reason for GZ to take it as far as he did? He targets a lone teen and uses the burglary as an excuse to follow him, not giving up even when told not to follow..Is his personal stolen property his vigilante reason to over react to TM?

This gives me more cause for concern, that the mentality developed in GZ is due to the personal stolen property on his porch...and the paranoia growing to an hysterical level of fear that those who live there are very suspicious of those who they deem do not belong...GZ can't possibly know every resident who rents or owns there...

On February 2, 2012, Zimmerman placed a call to Sanford police after spotting a young black man he recognized peering into the windows of a neighbor's empty home, according to several friends and neighbors.

"I don't know what he's doing. I don't want to approach him, personally," Zimmerman said in the call, which was recorded. The dispatcher advised him that a patrol car was on the way. By the time police arrived, according to the dispatch report, the suspect had fled.

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BBM

Another reason why he didn't retreat when told to...LE doesn't respond quick enough and the alleged burglary fled the scene...well, not this time...GZ was determined to not let another one flee the scene...even tho' TM didn't do anthing for him to suspect him of doing anything nefarious, TM just walking alone was enough to push his paranoia to the point it did... it's in his mentality, one he created for himself out of his own personal property being stolen...

Well, he will now have to defend that for the murder of TM...it's his mentality that gets in the way of thinking clearly, is my belief..he's a loose cannon and if this didn't happen to TM, it would have happened to someone elses child..I believe his propensity for violence, his boundry and impulse control issues will be front and center....:maddening:

Just how many steps of seperation are there between Corey and the SFD? If one can accuse the SPD of such actions, is outside the realm of possibility Corey is doing it to?

Adrienne37 said:

So with the eyes of the world on this case, someone is actually suggesting that Angela Corey is lying and withholding information, and committing a crime? I am so sure that this happened, I mean really. I can see someone that the governor of the state appointed is really going to lie, leave things out, make things up, and just put whatever she wanted to put in an affidavit that a judge has to sign.

~jmo~

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ynotdivein said:

Grandma, that's pretty comprehensive. A couple extras for our peeps here:

- NO sleuthing of neighbors, milkmen, postal service workers, the sister's orthodontist's cousin, etc. whose names might turn up in said docs but who have only peripheral relation to this case.
- If a doc is unredacted and you do not have the ability to black out the info Gram and I have outlined above, DO NOT POST THE DOCUMENT.
- Tip your mods generously and frequently.

I think that it's, Grandmaj.

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BBM
:twocents::twocents::twocents::twocents::twocents::twocents::twocents::twocents::twocents::twocents::twocents::twocents::twocents::twocents::twocents::twocents::twocents::twocents:

:floorlaugh: I would have given more, but am limited on my usage of smilies!

Elley Mae said:

I do separate the TH's "media people" from the Attorney's when listening for facts as they pertain to a case. Th's for the most part are just that, then there's the lawyers, Prosecutors and then Defense and this is where I remind myself when they speak they are speaking as the Lawyer they are. The Lawyers are the ones I want to talk, the Th's can... nevermind jmo

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BBM

I agree, but in this case even the legal experts can't seem to agree.

And most of these TH's are former prosecutors, LE, FBI, defense attorneys. I'm guessing that's one of the reasons they can't agree, lol, maybe they are all a bit biased based on how they see these cases, either from a prosecution or defense standpoint.

JMHO

csziggy said:

I did find verification that GZ was licensed as an insurance agent in Florida:
Name of Licensee: ZIMMERMAN, GEORGE MICHAEL
License #: E007947
Business Location: ALTAMONTE SPRINGS,FLORIDA
Types and Classes of Valid Licenses
Type Original: GENERAL LINES (PROP & CAS)(0220)
Issue Date: 11/10/2004
Qualifying Appointment: NO
http://www.myfloridacfo.com/Data/AAR_ALIS1/index.htm

I don't seem that he had a business name for an insurance company, though I did find a George Michael Zimmerman who had a pressure wash company with a fictitious name in Lake Mary beginning in 2008 and still active. http://www.sunbiz.org/search.html

I don't think he could be an underwriter without a license. I'm not sure about being a 'fraud investigator' or whatever they called it.

IMO, JMO, etc.

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Reports say that his insurance business failed by 2005. That is a very short amount of time to be in business (11/10/2004) to 2005, WOW!

grandmaj said:

I understand. And I believe that at some point or perhaps even first it might have been turned over. Difficult to know that.

That is not my point. My point is, good evidence is preserved for a court of law. If you are really afraid of your safety why go to the press? What is the motivation to provide this picture to the press anonymously . If it was safely in the hands of the investigators what purpose did releasing this to the media serve? And could this picture be thrown out as possible evidence as a result?

If I got myself willingly involved in a case, I certainly would stand on my reputation and not hide. The motivation has to be considered IMO. I question what this person's reason is for rushing this to the media on the day of the bond hearing.

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$$$ would be a good start. If it turns out it really was someone who knew GZ, perhaps it's a one of these situations where they are angry at some of the things that are being said and wanted to get it out. I'm not sure, but even that doesn't mean the photo isn't authentic. We see leaked photos show up all the time in cases and I'm pretty sure a majority of those are not coming from LE.

rossva said:

Just how many steps of seperation are there between Corey and the SFD? If one can accuse the SPD of such actions, is outside the realm of possibility Corey is doing it to?

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Great point. IMO

atthelake said:

.........and that act of selling the pics, well, we know how that makes the person who took them open to attack on the stand, if they ever make it there. :banghead: What are folks thinking when they sell photos to the media? Guess they are ignorant to what happens in other cases as to credibility on the stand.

Also :twocents:, in that photo, the way the blood flow patterns are, it appears that he has had his head down for some time versus in the normal looking forward position. And I don't see that he's had impressions of his hands on his head to interfere with the flow - so would consider MOO that he didn't perhaps have use of his hands as normal reaction may be to touch the area - but don't see evidence of that in the photo.

:moo::moo:

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Someone would have to testify to the fact that they took the picture. I don't think defense can just present it as evidence unless it can be verified. So it is possible this will be the last time we see the picture if that person refuses to identify themselves. jmo

Aedrys said:

That is not what I meant. Sheesh. Of course he's not going to be smiling after he got arrested. No one is happy about that unless they just don't care, like Casey. What I mean is that he had a good life and was happy before he decided to shoot someone and things didn't go his way. He's not the hero anymore. He's a child killer. That has to be weighing on him. I'd rather he be in jail than out on his own. I fear he might not make it to trial if he slips into a depression. Like I said, his eyes looked deadened, like all the joy has gone out of him. It's a stark contrast to his previous pictures. It shows that all of this is weighing on him, and he might choose to kill himself rather than face an actual trial.

I never ever said that he should have had a happy mugshot. Please don't take my words out of context like that. Whatever side we're on, there should be concern for GZ's wellbeing.

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Sorry, it sounded like that was the road you were going (it's a message board, trying to determine context is not the easiest thing in the world sometimes). I agree, he's probably got a lot of depression going on. As to whether he's safer in jail than outside concerning whether he would harm himself? Well, people have committed suicide in jail before.