Theories On What Happened to Caylee Part #8

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she chloroformed, then duct taped, THEN threw her in the swimming pool for like an hour, and that combination is what did it. .

Wow WillenFan. I would say that doing all of the above would show rage and definitely premeditation.
 
If Chloroform was made hastily and not with exact amounts, would it still work well enough to knock someone out?
 
If Chloroform was made hastily and not with exact amounts, would it still work well enough to knock someone out?

I would have to think that if you mixed up the ingredients in a sloppy way, in a hasty way, you could make something DEADLY. Even by accident.
 
I would have to think that if you mixed up the ingredients in a sloppy way, in a hasty way, you could make something DEADLY. Even by accident.

I would tend to think that would be true. Another point I thought of is if she manufactured it on the 16th, where did she get the ice? I get the impression that it would take more than your average households freezer's capacity for ice.

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Yes, but who looks up "hand to hand combat" when thinking about murdering a two year old? I have to admit, I've never really thought those March computer searches had much if anything to do with Caylee's death.

ETA: I absolutely believe ICA killed Caylee, I just don't think the searches were part of it.

Hand to hand combat could have been related to a possible kidnapping story regarding Zanny's grappling with ICA over Caylee at Blanchard Prk, for example... ICA could have been planning a kidnapping story from the get go.
MOO
 
Hand to hand combat could have been related to a possible kidnapping story regarding Zanny's grappling with ICA over Caylee at Blanchard Prk, for example... ICA could have been planning a kidnapping story from the get go.
MOO

Good point, but I would be asking myself if that's the most logical conclusion given the evidence or if I'm trying to interpret the search in the way that best fits my conclusion. Not saying that's what you're doing, just how I tend to evaluate my speculations.
 
I'm open to your thoughts of course, so let's eliminate the chloroform as a tool used in Caylee's demise. That leaves the duct tape and thrown into the pool, then into the bags and in the trunk. 3 to 5 days in the trunk and then the body put on Suburban Dr. So how can we account for the high level of chloroform in the trunk? Isn't it just possible she made the chloroform for the first time on the 16th and not knowing what she was doing as far as making it, she put her out first OR thought it was supposed to be injected?

The chloroform could also be from decomposition. That was said at the trial, right? It is just the looking it up 84 times (84?) which would lead me to believe she tried it, at least.....but maybe not.

I think she may not have bothered to throw Caylee in the pool. Did the dogs find decomposition in the pool? I know there was some in the back yard. Maybe she was going to bury her there and ran out of time. Moo
 
This is so interesting to me, because the more and more I think about about chloroform, the more convinced I am that she didn't use it. I'm not trying to discount your opinion at all, because you made some strong points, but here's my thinking on it: From everything I've read, Chloroform doesn't last that long once it's made, I think even the page Casey viewed said two weeks or so, and it has to be stored in a glass container (not metal or plastic). While not hard to make, it is time consuming and methodical (lots of warnings of all the things that go wrong). As a sedative, it wouldn't be that useful because it would require redosing every 15 minutes or so, so I really don't buy into the trunk-babysitter theory. Casey spends much time researching in March, but then never appears to go back to the site on how to make chloroform. She couldn't have made the fatal in dose in March because it would have converted to phosgene gas by June. It doesn't appear that she would have had time to make it on the 16th, meaning she would have had to plan much further in advance, which, to me, is kind of contradicted by the way the body was dumped. Even the idea of her having the patience to make it and store it seems off, she just appears to be more impulsive than that. I could be totally wrong, but these are just my thoughts on the subject.

Geekygirl.. I concur. Casey is NOT A PLANNER...she flies by the seat of her pants. If she planned to kill Caylee and made chloroform, she would have also had found a better place to permanently hide her body, where she would never be found. The lies, the way the baby was dumped so close to home all indicate she had no plan.

I believe the chloroform was an accidental by product of all the chemicals the Anthony's threw in the trunk to clean it out and get rid of the smell and whatever else they found in the trunk when they picked it up.
 
The term hand to hand combat makes me laugh....where the heck did that term even come from? Doesn't seem like something Casey would search for.
 
Geekygirl.. I concur. Casey is NOT A PLANNER...she flies by the seat of her pants. If she planned to kill Caylee and made chloroform, she would have also had found a better place to permanently hide her body, where she would never be found. The lies, the way the baby was dumped so close to home all indicate she had no plan.

I believe the chloroform was an accidental by product of all the chemicals the Anthony's threw in the trunk to clean it out and get rid of the smell and whatever else they found in the trunk when they picked it up.

I honestly always thought the chloroform searches were because she was either planning on getting rid of caylee and using the kidnapper story or she was going to pretend she was kidnapped to get money from her parents, and she was researching how people had been kidnapped before.
 
I think Casey killed Caylee out of rage. However, let's pretend it actually was some sort of accident. I still think Casey deserves the death penalty for her behavior after her daughter's death and the horrid way she disposed of her baby, and the way she lied to authorities, ruined thousands of lives, and wasted so many resources. Fry her.
 
I agree I would love to see a link or MSM article which states that Bloise cleaned containers. This witness took the stand and swore to tell the truth. His testimony in no way reflected that he cleaned items. Baez can float any theory he wants within limits. That doesn't make it sworn testimony.

I think Tony's apartment might have had a garbage disposal and there was NEVER any "food" in the trash bag... MOO
 
Good point, but I would be asking myself if that's the most logical conclusion given the evidence or if I'm trying to interpret the search in the way that best fits my conclusion. Not saying that's what you're doing, just how I tend to evaluate my speculations.

After learning that there were kidnappings involving duct tape reported around that time (can't remember exactly where I saw that) -- and assuming ICA would have been aware of same-- I was thinking that suggestible ICA might have included that tidbit in her scenario... along with neckbreaking, ruptured spleen, and household weapons. IMO she could have been boning up on convincing stories for LE if/when she did go through with a fake kidnapping turned murder... JMO.
 
The chloroform could also be from decomposition. That was said at the trial, right? It is just the looking it up 84 times (84?) which would lead me to believe she tried it, at least.....but maybe not.

I think she may not have bothered to throw Caylee in the pool. Did the dogs find decomposition in the pool? I know there was some in the back yard. Maybe she was going to bury her there and ran out of time. Moo

I'm thinking at this point, the truth is sometimes the most simple. I think she may have actually drowned the baby in the pool in the afternoon of the 16th and knew at the time she did it she was going to blame it on her mother by leaving the ladder up and the gate open. The chloroform probably came about from the array of cleaning products CA used in the cleaning of the trunk and had nothing to do with the death. The computer search may have been an idea but I don't know that she ever acted on it. The duct tape I believe went on afterwards as the water was leaking from Caylee's nose and mouth. She grabbed the pooh blanket, wrapped her in it and put her in the trunk. Two days later, she went back to the house and wrapped her in the bag. The black bags supposedly didn't come from the house, so where did she get them from? If they could find that out, it might be the smoking gun.

She dumped the body and went on her merry way. Over the next month, she had time to plan her alibi as I do believe she didn't know what she was going to tell her family and she knew she had to tell them something. The rest is what we have today. No matter how you look at it, she didn't want Caylee. Not when she found out she was on the way and not 2 years and 10 months later.
 
I've always thought there was an abduction/car jacking plot, or at least a simple abduction and something went wrong or she waited too long not wanting to give up a night with Tony and the vehicle. Maybe she didn't want to injure herself or make herself the victim just yet. Anyone who can lie that well and go so far as to have elaborate stealing, make up a phony address book, send self emails, and zanny stories is capable of anything. I've also always thought chloroform might have been sprayed into the trunk due to her allegedly searching inhalation. Now I'm thinking it may have been sprayed in the trashbag and the trunk. I'll never believe that someone like Vaas who has studied decomposing bodies for 20 years would make such a mistake with a drowned decomposing body. A little toddler body at that. If Caylee did drown or suffocate, then Huntington must be correct that more flies would have been in the bag. He was right, there were flies in that bag, just not enough. Something disrupted their attraction and I believe it was loads of chloroform displacing the molecules in the trunk, or however it was that attempted to explain it, but didn't really get the chance. He said that flies would find a way to penetrate and get in, and they should have gotten into the trunk. If a few got in, then thousands should have gotten in. If Caylee wasn't in a trashbag, then there should be more carpet evidence. If she was in a trashbag from the beginning there should be more flies.
 
After learning that there were kidnappings involving duct tape reported around that time (can't remember exactly where I saw that) -- and assuming ICA would have been aware of same-- I was thinking that suggestible ICA might have included that tidbit in her scenario... along with neckbreaking, ruptured spleen, and household weapons. IMO she could have been boning up on convincing stories for LE if/when she did go through with a fake kidnapping turned murder... JMO.

But given that fact, couldn't one argue that she could have been aware of them, and then when some sort of accident did happen, she recalled the stories and used the duct tape to stage a kidnapping scenario in order to escape ANY responsibility what so ever? Or point out that since there's not any way to determine if she did or not know about the kidnappings, and did research them at that time, that it may not even be a consideration? Again, not discounting your opinion, just pointing out how different people could interpret the same piece of information.
 
Casey seems to make herself a victim, so if Caylee drowned it would seem like she'd have said she only got out of the pool for a minute to sit on the patio then had one of those seizures or passed out only to awake to Caylee drowned. She could have even called Jesse up and pretended to have one. Something like that would still have made her a victim and excused any neglect. She's capable of cooking something up if would have worked.
 
I can't stand her, and I hate the title "Tot Mom." It's disgusting. She doesn't know anymore than anyone else what happened to Caylee. But she loves publicity.

For all those blaming the mother and/or other members of the family, I recall the same stuff was said over and over about JonBenet's family. Some even blamed the little brother. In that case, they never even had enough evidence to go to trial. Yet they were blamed everywhere and on all the forums and those loony newspapers. The family was excoriated! I never believed it. Now they think new evidence (which they missed last time-what a surprise) shows it may have been an intruder.

It's a good thing they caught that nice next door neighbor, Westerfield in the[FONT=Verdana, Helvetica, Arial] Danielle Van Dam trial. He wasn't even suspected, but something gave him away. Cause they put the mother through the meat grinder and blamed her.

Nobody knows what happened to poor little Caylee. I find it very difficult to believe anyone in the family did it. I haven't heard any motives strong enough for murdering a little child. I don't think that the police have done much of an investigation, concentrating only on Casey and possibly her dad or brother. While families are often involved, it's not proven that's always the case. Often as not, it's a stranger, neighbor or even a friend.

Nancy Grace is disgusting.
[/FONT]
 
I can't stand her, and I hate the title "Tot Mom." It's disgusting. She doesn't know anymore than anyone else what happened to Caylee. But she loves publicity.

For all those blaming the mother and/or other members of the family, I recall the same stuff was said over and over about JonBenet's family. Some even blamed the little brother. In that case, they never even had enough evidence to go to trial. Yet they were blamed everywhere and on all the forums and those loony newspapers. The family was excoriated! I never believed it. Now they think new evidence (which they missed last time-what a surprise) shows it may have been an intruder.

It's a good thing they caught that nice next door neighbor, Westerfield in the[FONT=Verdana, Helvetica, Arial] Danielle Van Dam trial. He wasn't even suspected, but something gave him away. Cause they put the mother through the meat grinder and blamed her.

Nobody knows what happened to poor little Caylee. I find it very difficult to believe anyone in the family did it. I haven't heard any motives strong enough for murdering a little child. I don't think that the police have done much of an investigation, concentrating only on Casey and possibly her dad or brother. While families are often involved, it's not proven that's always the case. Often as not, it's a stranger, neighbor or even a friend.

Nancy Grace is disgusting.
[/FONT]

BBM

Statistically that is not true. According to homicide trends compiled from 1976-2005 by the US Department of Justice -
Of all children under age 5 murdered:

31% were killed by fathers
29% were killed by mothers
23% were killed by male acquaintances
7% were killed by other relatives
3% were killed by strangers

http://bjs.ojp.usdoj.gov/content/homicide/children.cfm
 
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