IA IA - Elizabeth Collins, 8, & Lyric Cook, 10, Evansdale, 13 July 2012 - #12

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lishac23 said:
Thanks for all your insight. I studied the map and the pics (you guys are great by the way). Is Arbutus Ave and the road to Maiden Lane pretty well traveled?
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Ollipop, who lives really close to the lake, was unaware of the trail that started at the Sewer Lift Station prior to this abduction. Arbutus looks like a residential road that wouldn't be a high traffic area.
 
SapphireSteel said:
This is what I would like to know.

It feels important, especially when "staging" is discussed.

I have asked for a link where Abbas says they were against the fence, no one has provided one as yet, but apparently he made this comment in a presser.

TG most definitely said he "swerved" around the bikes on his ride, at or about 12.20.
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I agree. I also wish they would confirm/deny the sighting of the bikes by TG. While I appreciate LE's need for discretion...I tend to pout when the information seems so trivial and worth sharing...and yet they still "can't confirm".
 
nikb said:
You forgot acres... ;)
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How do you think I feel?

I'm trying to convert it all to metrics....

Maths isn't my best subject at the best of times. Frankly I have no idea what the difference in yards, feet, or metres is.

:maddening:
 
SapphireSteel said:
This is what I would like to know.

It feels important, especially when "staging" is discussed.

I have asked for a link where Abbas says they were against the fence, no one has provided one as yet, but apparently he made this comment in a presser.

TG most definitely said he "swerved" around the bikes on his ride, at or about 12.20.
Click to expand...

Have you located any links related to how the bikes were positioned when Abben or the police first saw them?
 
lishac23 said:
I agree. I also wish they would confirm/deny the sighting of the bikes by TG. While I appreciate LE's need for discretion...I tend to pout when the information seems so trivial and worth sharing...and yet they still "can't confirm".
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I think they DID confirm. The only problem is Sandy Breault used the word "runner" instead of "cyclist"...

Breault said they are looking for anyone who might have been at the park, on the trails or on the water. Elizabeth Collins and Lyric Cook-Morrissey disappeared July 13.
“There was a gentleman who regularly runs around the lake. He didn’t see either one of the girls ... but he did see their bikes and he was able to pinpoint the time of the day that he saw the bikes. Small details like this are really important to the investigation,” she said.


http://wcfcourier.com/news/evansdal...cle_507d9bca-d2b1-11e1-8f0b-0019bb2963f4.html
 
otto said:
Have you located any links related to how the bikes were positioned when Abben or the police first saw them?
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I didn't claim it so I'm not looking for it. I'm going with TG's statement.

I've asked those who claimed it to provide a link but so far nothing.

I'm not saying he DIDN'T say it...I'd just like confirmation (even if it is only msm).

:dunno:
 
Funny, after last week and all the hubbub about white vans in general and a white van astro involved in teh attempted abduction of the 5 yr old in Cedar Rapids, I left work and low and behold, in the parking lot of the business next door was an entire fleet of White Astro company work vans.

One of our members posted last week that part of the commonality of white vans was that many companies have fleets of company vehicles that are used by employees. As those fleets age and become less of an asset and are replaced - those vans are often sold to private individuals, hence the seeming plethora of white "work" type vans on the roads today.

My DH is a contractor and we ourselves had three white utility vans on the road along with our trucks and other equipment at any one time.
 
I took the time to search for the fact that Abben said that when he saw the bikes, they were leaning against the fence. This information was released on July 18 and reposted on this website on July 30. Here is the link:

Post number 272; at the 8:47 time mark.

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=180309&page=11

'One bike had a kick stand, the other didn't. When he got there the bikes were leaning against the fence but he says that he can't say who leaned the bikes against the fence.'
 
otto said:
I think you make a good point. There was one summer when my son fell in with some unsupervised children. He was not honest with me about what he was doing and when he was late, I didn't even know where to begin looking for him. Looking at the location of the Collin's home, it would make more sense to look along the river, which is only a couple of blocks from the house. The decision to look at the lake suggests that someone knew that it was a likely spot.

It could be as simple as one of the relatives knowing that the girls were sneaking off to the lake without Grandma knowing what they were up to, and keeping the secret. Some adults want to be a child's friend, rather than an authoritarian figure, so they keep children's secrets. The person that first suggested the lake is probably the relative that kept the secret from Grandma and the parents. That doesn't mean that the relative was involved with the abduction, only that the relative did not enforce the rules and, as a result, the children were vulnerable to abduction.
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Ollipop mentioned the river in one of these threads. He said that along the stretch in Evansdale, there's a levee that is steep enough so that it would discourage casual exploration. He said he'd never seen either kids or adults on top of the levee.

LE did check the river and I am certain that if they were in the river, their bodies would have been found by now.
 
otto said:
Ollipop, who lives really close to the lake, was unaware of the trail that started at the Sewer Lift Station prior to this abduction. Arbutus looks like a residential road that wouldn't be a high traffic area.
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I would imagine if someone living nearby didn't know much about it, that its not a very well "known" trail...unless you have been there...maybe a maintenance worker for the lift. I looked it up online and its privately owned (sure LE has looked into it already). Just thinking out loud trying to make peace with the opposing sides in my head. :what: If we use maiden lane/arbutus ave as the route taken by the perp...if he/she/they took them from somewhere else and went in that way to dispose of their property, how would he/she/they get the bikes to the other side? LE has confirmed that the bikes didn't appear to have any damage, so we know they weren't thrown over. I think it would take too much of a risk of being seen to walk them to the open gate and put them down/against the fence....andthen walk back to his car. (all within the time frame of the jogger/cyclist seeing their bikes on the path)

IMO its more plausible that the perp would have snagged them on the path, walked them through the open gate towards his parked car and drove off with them.


I welcome all opposition to my theories...I appreciate perspectives/viewpoints I may have missed. :rocker:
 
SapphireSteel said:
How do you think I feel?

I'm trying to convert it all to metrics....

Maths isn't my best subject at the best of times. Frankly I have no idea what the difference in yards, feet, or metres is.

:maddening:
Click to expand...

39 inches per metre, 36 inches per yard. 12 inches per foot, 30 centimetres per foot. 3 feet per yard. 100 centimetres per meter ... which is similar to a yard.

I thought Canadians had to be fairly ambidextrous when it came to measurements. Construction materials are still imperial, measuring tapes and rulers are both ... food is in lbs and kg ... temperature is celcius on Canadian news and fahrenheit on US news ...
 
otto said:
39 inches per metre, 36 inches per yard. 12 inches per foot, 30 centimetres per foot. 3 feet per yard. 100 centimetres per meter ... which is similar to a yard.

I thought Canadians had to be fairly ambidextrous when it came to measurements. Construction materials are still imperial, measuring tapes and rulers are both ... food is in lbs and kg ... temperature is celcius on Canadian news and fahrenheit on US news ...
Click to expand...

I'm not Canadian...Australian.

Only the older generation knows Imperial measurements here. I'm no spring chicken but metric was bought in just after I was born so I know nothing else.

Anyway I've got dyscalculia so it's pretty much all gobbeldy gook to me.

:banghead:
 
I wish we had something new to hash over. It's so frustrating how quiet LE, msm and other sources are. I know they have not much to share but we as the public who most have children of our own, I think deserves to know something. Even if it's just to know they are still working on the case.
 
lishac23 said:
I would imagine if someone living nearby didn't know much about it, that its not a very well "known" trail...unless you have been there...maybe a maintenance worker for the lift. I looked it up online and its privately owned (sure LE has looked into it already). Just thinking out loud trying to make peace with the opposing sides in my head. :what: If we use maiden lane/arbutus ave as the route taken by the perp...if he/she/they took them from somewhere else and went in that way to dispose of their property, how would he/she/they get the bikes to the other side? LE has confirmed that the bikes didn't appear to have any damage, so we know they weren't thrown over. I think it would take too much of a risk of being seen to walk them to the open gate and put them down/against the fence....andthen walk back to his car. (all within the time frame of the jogger/cyclist seeing their bikes on the path)

IMO its more plausible that the perp would have snagged them on the path, walked them through the open gate towards his parked car and drove off with them.


I welcome all opposition to my theories...I appreciate perspectives/viewpoints I may have missed. :rocker:
Click to expand...

Bang on...exactly how I see it.

:moo:
 
otto said:
The FBI said that the dogs tracked from the bikes to the lake. Brouseau said on the Nancy Grace show (transcripts posted upthread) that she watched the dogs track first one child, then the other, to the Maiden Lane area ... where the scent was then lost.
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I believe you have your sources reversed.

Aunt TB said something ambiguous on Nancy Grace associating the dogs with the edge of the lake. I believe she meant to identify the particular stretch of fence where the lake is closest to the fence.

Other people have interpreted it to mean that the dogs actually tracked the girls to the edge of the water.

Sandy Breault said that the dogs found scent in the patch of woods that hides Maiden Lane.
 
SapphireSteel said:
I didn't claim it so I'm not looking for it. I'm going with TG's statement.

I've asked those who claimed it to provide a link but so far nothing.

I'm not saying he DIDN'T say it...I'd just like confirmation (even if it is only msm).

:dunno:
Click to expand...

I have located the press release and posted the link. Hopefully that will answer any questions regarding whether the bikes were leaning against the fence when Abben arrived at the scene.
 
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