Deceased/Not Found CA - Sierra LaMar, 15, Morgan Hill, 16 March 2012 #5 *A. Garcia-Torres guilty*

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Dee226 said:
I can't see her mom not caring about how she'd get to school in those situations. Was there a set person who would give her a ride? Perhaps an older schoolmate the mom okayed her riding with. Maybe a neighbor.
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Okay, I figured that January is likely to be the coldest month of the year in the US. So I looked at this site:

http://www.weather.com/weather/wxclimatology/daily/95037?climoMonth=1

And I see the average daily high in January is usually around 60 degrees F and the average daily low is around 38 degrees F. They had a record low of 22 degrees F back in 1987 but all the other record lows are for years well before 1987.

According to this site:

http://www.city-data.com/city/Morgan-Hill-California.html

The month with the highest amount of precipitation also happens to be January. They get about 4.5 inches in the entire month.

Now, I know I am a hick but this is nothing I recognise as weather. Weather involves temps below 10 degrees F or over 90 degrees F. Weather involves storms that dump 4.5 inches in 4 hours.

What am I missing here? What is there about this weather that would require making any sort of arrangements at all for a healthy 15 year old to avoid having to walk a half mile in it? <scratching head>
 
90Nine said:
I hate to say it, but I don't think I would get into a car if someone threatened me with a gun. I think I would take my chances that they would not shoot me. If they did, I would much rather be shot with the possibility of survival (even not) than be torchured and murdered anyway.[/B]

I hope the police are including the spouse being being out of town in their questioning. Thanks for sharing that. It's good to think about.
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There was a story on, I think Dateline, where a young man went missing and they were trying to figure out what happened . They had footage from an ATM machine of this "suspect". In the meantime this "suspect" was seen on a security camera in a bank, He was brazen enough not to use a mask, and he put a gun to the head of a young girl to get the teller to comply with his demands.

When he went to leave he told the girl she was to go with him or he'd kill her........SHE SAT DOWN ON THE FLOOR OF THE BANK!! He left without her.
The detectives said "that act saved her life".

It might seem hard to do when a gun is pointed at you, but , I agree with you 90Nine, Kill me now, cause I'm not going with you, crazy man.LOL
 
Kat said:
Can a taser cause you to wet yourself? Don't have any experience with them just asking out of curiousity.

Did LE ever comment to the question by media about urine *possibly* being on the articles of clothing found in the JC bag?

Sorry, I've been offline for the most part for the past 10 days. I tried to catch up with reading but might have missed it. TIA! (not speculating just curious)
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First, Jaycee Dugard said that she wet herself when tazered by her abductors...

And LE said "no comment" about the urine on the clothes.

Also, I've noticed quite few new "faces" here, so...

:welcome3:
 
GrainneDhu said:
Okay, I figured that January is likely to be the coldest month of the year in the US. So I looked at this site:

http://www.weather.com/weather/wxclimatology/daily/95037?climoMonth=1

And I see the average daily high in January is usually around 60 degrees F and the average daily low is around 38 degrees F. They had a record low of 22 degrees F back in 1987 but all the other record lows are for years well before 1987.

According to this site:

http://www.city-data.com/city/Morgan-Hill-California.html

The month with the highest amount of precipitation also happens to be January. They get about 4.5 inches in the entire month.

Now, I know I am a hick but this is nothing I recognise as weather. Weather involves temps below 10 degrees F or over 90 degrees F. Weather involves storms that dump 4.5 inches in 4 hours.

What am I missing here? What is there about this weather that would require making any sort of arrangements at all for a healthy 15 year old to avoid having to walk a half mile in it? <scratching head>
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During the winter here, rain and wind is the worst it gets. Wearing a jacket and using an umbrella is all that is needed . Winter never gets so bad that I, in my 60's, can't walk around. We have had some really cold nights this last winter (high 30's), but the days are comfortable with a jacket, scarf and gloves.

She could have easily walked to the bus stop in winter.
 
TxLady2 said:
Not all rapists torture or kill their victims. If they can keep them from seeing their face, there's a good chance they will let them live.
Most of us think we would react one way or another, but every situation is different and when panic sets in, we usually react the opposite of what we think we would.
I would not get in a car with a stranger unless they forced me at gunpoint. Not much chance of survival from a GSW at close range if they have good aim. But if they walk up to you on the street and point a gun at you or stick a knife in your back or to your throat, what then? My guess is most women would go quietly. LE used to caution teens and young women that if you are about to be raped, the best thing to do is cooperate, your chances of survival are much better than if you fight back.
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I see what you're saying. I read it again. You're right, not all rapists kill or torchure. Rapists being the operative word. There are thousands of rapes where people are raped and mostly physically unharmed or just beaten without being killed or critally injured physically. You're totally right about that.

I think it is a different type of person though who actually kidnaps or abducts. Most 'rapists' will enter your home, go to your work, follow you home...that kind of thing. I know that is not ever scenario though. There are different types of rapist, hence differnt MO's.

In a kidnap or abduction, I believe we see more of the sexual sadist vs. rapists. I hope that makes sense.
 
GrainneDhu said:
Okay, I figured that January is likely to be the coldest month of the year in the US. So I looked at this site:

http://www.weather.com/weather/wxclimatology/daily/95037?climoMonth=1

And I see the average daily high in January is usually around 60 degrees F and the average daily low is around 38 degrees F. They had a record low of 22 degrees F back in 1987 but all the other record lows are for years well before 1987.

According to this site:

http://www.city-data.com/city/Morgan-Hill-California.html

The month with the highest amount of precipitation also happens to be January. They get about 4.5 inches in the entire month.

Now, I know I am a hick but this is nothing I recognise as weather. Weather involves temps below 10 degrees F or over 90 degrees F. Weather involves storms that dump 4.5 inches in 4 hours.

What am I missing here? What is there about this weather that would require making any sort of arrangements at all for a healthy 15 year old to avoid having to walk a half mile in it? <scratching head>
Click to expand...

She could have walked in that weather but she appeared to be very concerned about her appearance which a lot are at her age and it's probably something she wouldn't want to do. I also included her missing the bus not just the weather. It may have been a half a mile to her bus stop but what happened if she missed the bus?
I don't let my 13 yr old stand at the end of our driveway which is the bus stop in bad weather. Either myself or my college age daughter covers her with an umbrella so her clothes and books stay dry until the bus comes. That's just me.
 
GrainneDhu said:
Someone (NOT ME! LOL) could look at her Twitter history and see if there were tweets sent between 8:15 am and 3:15 pm (more or less) Monday through Friday.

Her cell records would show whether she texted during those same hours. LE has those records and they haven't seen fit to release them.

I tend to think that, like many schools, there was a rule against texting or tweeting during school hours.

When I was a teen, I wasn't that curious if a friend didn't show up, I just assumed she was sick. The only time I would be curious would be if I had some specific plan or presentation with that person.
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BBM

Same with me. But that just shows you how different things are now for these teens because of all of the ' Real Time' communication they do.

Nowadays if a kid is too sick for school or had something come up that morning even, 90% of them will tweet it or text it or FB it from their cell.

So if a kid doesn't show up their friends might be surprised. Usually my DD was texting friends that morning saying ' bring my black belt to school -I need to wear it today' or something like that, communicating her intention to be at school. So if she didn't show up there would be texts most likely from her good friends.
 
GrainneDhu said:
It may have been more difficult for Sierra's neighbours to maintain that kind of watch since the houses are set back from the street, there are mature trees and plenty of shrubbery.
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Perhaps, however we live on 4 acres and our home sits about 170 feet off of the street and we have large pines, and oaks in our front yard and loads of landscaping, but I can still see out and see the roadway and see everyone that goes by very easily.

Also I would think that people would be out in their yards early working in their flower beds. I know I get out there very early but here its been hot for some time.

imo
 
I don't think the person that took her was a complete stranger at all. I think it was someone that she had at least some familiarity with. I could be a guy that works at her school... the person at that is at the coffee shop everyday, a casual aquaintance...

At some point very early in meeting him, she may have seen him as a casual encounter, but he saw her as much more. From that point on the game started for him. He learned everything about her that he could, her routines, friends, family, details the average person wouldn't care to know.

My point is: He picked the perfect point to strike. Bus stop, bad idea, too many possible eyes. Along the road, not so good either, people tend to be on-guard when walking down the street. The best time is when someone feels safe, right on their own property, while their guard is down. Plus, if a neighbor had seen her getting into a car, the perp wouldn't have been under much scrutiny. It's not that un-usual to see a teen ager getting into a car near her driveway before school. Seeing a teenager picked up in a car from a bus stop, or walking down the street, is a little suspicious.

Finally, he may be someone she views as being kind, and possibly even pretty good looking. Some sociopaths are incredibly persuasive, and make themselves seem very innocent, and kind.

To find him, other similiar cases need to be looked at too.

Now, I have to add this, cuz I feel horrible for thinking the worst.

I hope she comes home. Please just have run away, I want to be wrong.
 
Dee226 said:
She could have walked in that weather but she appeared to be very concerned about her appearance which a lot are at her age and it's probably something she wouldn't want to do. I also included her missing the bus not just the weather. It may have been a half a mile to her bus stop but what happened if she missed the bus?
I don't let my 13 yr old stand at the end of our driveway which is the bus stop in bad weather. Either myself or my college age daughter covers her with an umbrella so her clothes and books stay dry until the bus comes. That's just me.
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When I was Sierra's age and it was raining I just used my umbrella.

And there were no other houses around ours for miles and miles.

My mom and dad both had to work so I was the only one there at the bus stop.

IMO
 
houndstooth said:
Yes, I'm a little puzzled about this.
How come there weren't any tweets about her not being in school posted?
Why wouldn't there be something like, "hey, did you ditch today?", or "missed you in school", or "where are U?", or maybe, "why aren't you answering my text?, queries?
Did no one really notice or care that she hadn't texted them, or tweeted something, or texted back?

Like at lunch, I'm sure her friends grabbed for their phones first opportunity.
So did no one, send her a text or tweet to ask where or how she was?
And right after school when she still hadn't answered?
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I know most schools prohibit cell phones even at lunch and on the bus. In fact, in 9th grade my DTR got detention and I had to pick up her phone from the RO for texting outside in the parking lot during lunch. She was texting me, but it broke policy. No phones in class, even if turned off due to distraction. Also, because students can cheat with them, too. When I look at my phone bills for the past 4 years of having a teenager, the texting stops during certain hours of the day. Of course, thank goodness for unlimited plans, most teens make up for it during other hours. My DTR can still get in a good 10,000 texts a month...LOL
 
jackornaught said:
I don't think the person that took her was a complete stranger at all. I think it was someone that she had at least some familiarity with. I could be a guy that works at her school... the person at that is at the coffee shop everyday, a casual aquaintance...

At some point very early in meeting him, she may have seen him as a casual encounter, but he saw her as much more. From that point on the game started for him. He learned everything about her that he could, her routines, friends, family, details the average person wouldn't care to know.

My point is: He picked the perfect point to strike. Bus stop, bad idea, too many possible eyes. Along the road, not so good either, people tend to be on-guard when walking down the street. The best time is when someone feels safe, right on their own property, while their guard is down. Plus, if a neighbor had seen her getting into a car, the perp wouldn't have been under much scrutiny. It's not that un-usual to see a teen ager getting into a car near her driveway before school. Seeing a teenager picked up in a car from a bus stop, or walking down the street, is a little suspicious.

Finally, he may be someone she views as being kind, and possibly even pretty good looking. Some sociopaths are incredibly persuasive, and make themselves seem very innocent, and kind.

To find him, other similiar cases need to be looked at too.

Now, I have to add this, cuz I feel horrible for thinking the worst.

I hope she comes home. Please just have run away, I want to be wrong.
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I really think if it had been an aquaintance even superficially LE would know who they are by now. If he was interested in her that is hard to keep a secret. People would see how he acted around her and pick up the vibe that he wanted more. It is very hard to disquise when someone is interested in someone.

With them interviewing over 100 people a week ago, and possibly even more now, they have not changed their position that there is no evidence that she had met someone and ran away with them. I would think someone would have been suspicious of someone who may have wanted more from Sierra.

I dont think she knew him or them. I think she came out of her home fully expecting to go to the bus stop but this person had already noticed that Sierra was alone after Rick and Marlene left for work and knew she went to the bus stop alone. Imo, they siezed on the opportunity to abduct her.

imo
 
My kids won't use umbrellas.

We only have 10 houses on our street compared to over 100 on the other streets. My kids were the only children in the neighborhood for years and there is a sex offender across from the bus stop and one diagonal to us. . I had to fight 3 years to get them to put a bus stop closer to my house. There are more sex offenders within a mile.
I just right now got an automated call telling parents to look on the school web site under Megan's Law to see about the offenders in the area. I haven't gotten a call like this in a year so there has to be a new offender in the area that they want us to be aware of. I don't know why they let them live so close to areas where children are.
 
TxLady2 said:
Not all rapists torture or kill their victims. If they can keep them from seeing their face, there's a good chance they will let them live.
Most of us think we would react one way or another, but every situation is different and when panic sets in, we usually react the opposite of what we think we would.
I would not get in a car with a stranger unless they forced me at gunpoint. Not much chance of survival from a GSW at close range if they have good aim. But if they walk up to you on the street and point a gun at you or stick a knife in your back or to your throat, what then? My guess is most women would go quietly. LE used to caution teens and young women that if you are about to be raped, the best thing to do is cooperate, your chances of survival are much better than if you fight back.
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You are right, females were always taught to cooperate. I have personnally experienced two seperate incidents. I did not know the perps. The first was waking up in my bed with a 357 stuck to my forehead. There were 2 of them. I was told to cooperate or my head would be blown off. The second was a choke hold. When I struggled he would squeeze tighter to the point where I was loosing conciousness. The only way to prevent passing out was to cooperate. I feel very lucky to still be alive today! Now, at my age, I think I would rather take a bullet than go through it again. The reason I posted this is to just illustrate a scenerio to those they may be questioning how she was abducted.
 
Dee226 said:
She could have walked in that weather but she appeared to be very concerned about her appearance which a lot are at her age and it's probably something she wouldn't want to do. I also included her missing the bus not just the weather. It may have been a half a mile to her bus stop but what happened if she missed the bus?
I don't let my 13 yr old stand at the end of our driveway which is the bus stop in bad weather. Either myself or my college age daughter covers her with an umbrella so her clothes and books stay dry until the bus comes. That's just me.
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I thought your post raised some good questions... most families have some kind of contingency plan if a child misses the bus...also, I wondered if she would have accepted a ride from a neighbor, if it was raining ?

IMO the worst part of this walk to her bus stop would have been the early morning darkness of the winter months, and the fact that there were apparently no other kids around her age going to that bus stop. Didn't seem safe,but JMO...
 
LucyOso said:
I know most schools prohibit cell phones even at lunch and on the bus. In fact, in 9th grade my DTR got detention and I had to pick up her phone from the RO for texting outside in the parking lot during lunch. She was texting me, but it broke policy. No phones in class, even if turned off due to distraction. Also, because students can cheat with them, too. When I look at my phone bills for the past 4 years of having a teenager, the texting stops during certain hours of the day. Of course, thank goodness for unlimited plans, most teens make up for it during other hours. My DTR can still get in a good 10,000 texts a month...LOL
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Cell phones owned by students arent allowed on campus in our school district. they were for a time but there was too much disruption during the day.

imo
 
TxLady2 said:
Not all rapists torture or kill their victims. If they can keep them from seeing their face, there's a good chance they will let them live.
Most of us think we would react one way or another, but every situation is different and when panic sets in, we usually react the opposite of what we think we would.
I would not get in a car with a stranger unless they forced me at gunpoint. Not much chance of survival from a GSW at close range if they have good aim. But if they walk up to you on the street and point a gun at you or stick a knife in your back or to your throat, what then? My guess is most women would go quietly. LE used to caution teens and young women that if you are about to be raped, the best thing to do is cooperate, your chances of survival are much better than if you fight back.
Click to expand...

I'm not willingly going to go with the violent perpetrator to find out if he may or may not be a violent rapist that may allow me to live.. this same convo is taking place in Sam's thread as well.. and just as Whisperer has stated on both threads as well as 90Nine and myself have said IMO its important to fight like hell to not be taken.. here's a post from Sams thread discussing how the possibility of your being harmed during your fighting the perpto not be taken.. that possibility of harm pales in comparison to what the perp guaranteesthat awaits you(and yea even if "just rape")..here is the post below:
TxLady2 said:
Why would any person take the chance that they will be killed if they resist, rather than do as the kidnapper says, with the possibility that they will live a little while longer or manage to escape or be rescued?
I'm sorry, but 9 out of 10 people are not going to stand their ground with a gun pointed at them, especially young women. Survival is an instinct and everyone is going to fight to survive. Sometimes a victim has no choice. If the guy is bigger and stronger and has a gun, you think a young woman or a child could manage to stand in one spot while he's forcing them to walk? The best they could do is scream as loud as they can, which would probably get them clobbered on the head or a knife in their back.
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And I believe you summed up what is precisely Whisp's point that she's hitting home.. at worst case scenario the bast*** retaliates for your having fought back, refused to go submissively, or stood your ground..he retaliates as you say by clobbering you on the head or stabbing at you with a knife.. and that's at worst case scenario which isn't the most likeliest.. most likeliest perp is not sticking around, but lets go with the worst case scenario of his retaliating with clobbering in the head, stabbing, and I'll even add in his retaliating by shooting with a gun.. all of these worst case scenarios are trumped in spades at what is the alternative of not standing your ground, fighting like hell with everything you're made of and even then some.. of not doing that and instead choosing to be submissive and not give the bast*** any "trouble".. what he has awaiting for you is what nightmares are made of.. torture, rape, and death to not get into any specifics..

So in looking at the truth of the matter whatever the bast*** inflicts upon you in retaliation for fighting him(ie. Like your examples clobbered in the head, stabbed and I add even possibly shot) those are NOTHING COMPARED TO THE BRUTALITY THAT WILL BE INFLICTED ONCE HE HAS YOU OUT OF SIGHT.. those tortures and inevitable death trump in spades everytime any or all of the "possible" things he may or may not attempt to do to you for fighting back and not going with him.. those IMO look like a day at the park when compared to the reality of what he has awaiting you.. that there is no doubt.. there is no question of he may or may not as there is in the "will he retaliate for fighting him scenario".. Nope.. it is a guarantee that he will inflict all of those horrors on you once he has secured you out of sight..

IMO Whisp's point is clear.. whatever may or may not be done to you when you fight for your life not to leave with the perp.. that no matter how horrific those possibilities of retaliation may appear, they are nothing in comparison with what is guaranteed that will be done to you if he succeeds in taking you..

That's jmo, tho and Whisperer may have a better or different way of explaining it..
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oceanblueeyes said:
I really think if it had been an aquaintance even superficially LE would know who they are by now. If he was interested in her that is hard to keep a secret. People would see how he acted around her and pick up the vibe that he wanted more. It is very hard to disquise when someone is interested in someone.

With them interviewing over 100 people a week ago, and possibly even more now, they have not changed their position that there is no evidence that she had met someone and ran away with them. I would think someone would have been suspicious of someone who may have wanted more from Sierra.

I dont think she knew him or them. I think she came out of her home fully expecting to go to the bus stop but this person had already noticed that Sierra was alone after Rick and Marlene left for work and knew she went to the bus stop alone. Imo, they siezed on the opportunity to abduct her.

imo
Click to expand...

If that huge iron gate at the end of her driveway was closed, is it possible that she could have seen anyone parked near the end of the cul de sac,or lurking outside the gate at the end of the driveway ? Could she have spotted him before she opened the gate ?
 
Watching Marlene LaMar on JVM right now. What is going on with her eyes. She keeps shifting her eyes to the right (our left). It is very very distracting.
 
Anybody watching JVM she is talking about Sierra case her mom is on. Her mom every time she talks her eyed keep shifting to the left it is strange, I get the feeling she has no idea was is on Sierra Pc either even though she says she and Sierra were close.
 
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