Hugh Wiggins

Martini said:

I have read all of the links for all of the documents released to the public, and HG's interview is not among them. Do you think they kept it because he has limited imunity?

Click to expand...

Close. I think they are missing because his interview was considered a confession. Confessions are exempt. See below

http://www.okeesheriff.org/sheriff/Communications/PublicInformation/tabid/92/Default.aspx

The Florida Sunshine Law is a very liberal public information law. Basically, all records maintained by a governmental agency are public records subject to release upon request. However, there are many exceptions when involving law enforcement. The following is a list of items exempt from public record release.

Active criminal investigation reports and evidence
Intelligence information
Surveillance methods
Some investigative procedures
Some victim information
Autopsy records
Confessions
Confidential informants
Criminal histories
Some domestic violence information
911 calls
Some juvenile offender records
Inmate records
Medical records

I am surprised that 911 calls are exempt...

Martini said:

I have read all of the links for all of the documents released to the public, and HG's interview is not among them. Do you think they kept it because he has limited imunity?

Click to expand...

Who is HG? Do you mean Hugh Wiggins(HW)? Trying to follow all these initials is driving me crazy.

Lossmitpro posted ........ "They say con guys are the easiest to con, and maybe Pat conned himself into doing this, even thinking it was largely his idea and operation, and is now 'lying' to the cops that he is a fall guy, not even realizing the irony that he was IN ACTUAL FACT a fall guy... sheesh, I feel like I am describing Robert Downy Jrs. lineage in "Tropic Thunder"!)


I agree. LPG Jr may have worked himself right into a position to be conned by a smoother con than he. Set-up to take the fall, but using his big bad vanity and bravado to hang himself.

Really, after reading the gun hiding mini get-away, I am surprised HGW was so involved and not in jail yet. Who was conning who between Pam and Hubbie?

Curious Me said:

Lossmitpro posted ........ "They say con guys are the easiest to con, and maybe Pat conned himself into doing this, even thinking it was largely his idea and operation, and is now 'lying' to the cops that he is a fall guy, not even realizing the irony that he was IN ACTUAL FACT a fall guy... sheesh, I feel like I am describing Robert Downy Jrs. lineage in "Tropic Thunder"!)


I agree. LPG Jr may have worked himself right into a position to be conned by a smoother con than he. Set-up to take the fall, but using his big bad vanity and bravado to hang himself.

Really, after reading the gun hiding mini get-away, I am surprised HGW was so involved and not in jail yet. Who was conning who between Pam and Hubbie?

Click to expand...

heh heh heh

Hey, I'm just glad someone could follow *both* my tortured logic, and my tortured writing to pull out what I meant to say there. Which you obviously did!

I am usually a stanch advocate of 'simpler is better', including crime theories. But I do make a bit of an exception with an obvious egomaniac nutjob like Patrick Gonzalez. Here is a guy who was pathologically driven to constantly lie to people in order to aggrandize himself, and that is one reason we get so many different stories. We get it not only about his own situation (karate superstar, govnt agent, super good guy (seratoma), super bad guy (drugs/guns), hired killer, loving family man, desperate daddy on internet searching for lost child, guy opening up a new motorcycle customization shop, drug rip off dude, repro expert, Bentley driving yacht owner, etc), but even get a variety of stories regarding the target (variously described as: a pedophile, a drug dealer, a big time loan shark, retiree with four million dollar stash, a guy running an adoption ring, etc). And so, for Pat to admit to himself or to others that he tried to plan and pull off this crime fiasco all by himself and screwed it up totally, or that he was cleverly manipulated by someone else, would seem unacceptable. However, LYING about some faceless powerful cabal, or some quasi-governmental undercover group, who caused him to be snared as the 'patsy'... well, the dark intrigue there will appeal to his twisted ego more than any other tale he could come up with, ESPECIALLY the truth.

My mom used the phrase 'he would rather lie than tell the truth' one time regarding a person, and I thought it was just humorous hyperbole. But later in life I realized there were people, and even met a couple of them, for whom that adage was totally true -- every statement, every interaction was a chance to spin, to build up, to puff up and to inflate. Pat Poff is one of those types.

What part of Patrick's "criminality" has he lied about? Of course, he's lied about NOT killing the Billings', but aside from that, what has he lied about with regard to criminal activities? I noticed that LS would say he's a liar, but then he ends up saying he DID go to Mexico and he DID rob the Billings' and he DID hang out with serious characters. And based on circumstantial evidence, it looks like he also robbed a couple local banks. I don't think Patrick was a liar as much as he was a sociopath and a career criminal. His big lie was acting as though he was a productive citizen and producing a facade of success.

UnderDog said:

What part of Patrick's "criminality" has he lied about? Of course, he's lied about NOT killing the Billings', but aside from that, what has he lied about with regard to criminal activities? I noticed that LS would say he's a liar, but then he ends up saying he DID go to Mexico and he DID rob the Billings' and he DID hang out with serious characters. And based on circumstantial evidence, it looks like he also robbed a couple local banks. I don't think Patrick was a liar as much as he was a sociopath and a career criminal. His big lie was acting as though he was a productive citizen and producing a facade of success.

Click to expand...

Don't take this the wrong way, but I'm just not interested in cataloging Poff's various lies for you.

If you've read the statements of those who knew him -- from his criminal activity, to his family, to his 'business' ties --there is a crystal clear trail of one lie after another, a lifetime of lies and deception, *including* by the assessment of pretty much all of those people, who independently came to the same conclusion.

If you think he is not a liar, more power to you.

UnderDog said:

What part of Patrick's "criminality" has he lied about? Of course, he's lied about NOT killing the Billings', but aside from that, what has he lied about with regard to criminal activities? I noticed that LS would say he's a liar, but then he ends up saying he DID go to Mexico and he DID rob the Billings' and he DID hang out with serious characters. And based on circumstantial evidence, it looks like he also robbed a couple local banks. I don't think Patrick was a liar as much as he was a sociopath and a career criminal. His big lie was acting as though he was a productive citizen and producing a facade of success.

Click to expand...

Think about the way that he got his fellow ninjas involved in this crime. He told Sumner he would invest in his business, he even paid Sumner's rent for one month. He told everyone there would be millions of dollars in the Billings safe. He sent photos of a safe full of money. He told his father that the Billings were molesting children. He told someone (I forget who) that Billings was an "elderly drug dealer". He basically told people what they wanted to hear in order to get them to do what he wanted to do. This is why friends who knew him well refused to participate. As Loss says, everyone who knew LPG well said he was a liar. Why should we doubt this?

He told Sumner he would invest in his business...and he did, he paid his rent for one month. With regard to Billings molesting children, I missed that one. But with regard to two kilos of cocaine, we really don't know that they DIDN'T carry two kilos out of there and distribute it from the moorage where Pamela and Hugh went. With regard to my earlier comment about Wiggins "muscling" his way to the top, maybe it wasn't JW that was at "the top"? Stallworth is quoted as saying he'd never seen so much money before he saw the Billings' safe and he estimated the cash alone at $300k. This hasn't been confirmed, but it does make me wonder if there wasn't also a couple of kilos. I'm not saying Patrick is always honest, but I think it's naive to simply dismiss anything he says as a "lie" because his criminal associates say he "always lies". He definitely embellishes and seems to be a sociopath, but the grains of truth shouldn't be discarded or discounted, imho.

UnderDog said:

He told Sumner he would invest in his business...and he did, he paid his rent for one month. With regard to Billings molesting children, I missed that one. But with regard to two kilos of cocaine, we really don't know that they DIDN'T carry two kilos out of there and distribute it from the moorage where Pamela and Hugh went. With regard to my earlier comment about Wiggins "muscling" his way to the top, maybe it wasn't JW that was at "the top"? Stallworth is quoted as saying he'd never seen so much money before he saw the Billings' safe and he estimated the cash alone at $300k. This hasn't been confirmed, but it does make me wonder if there wasn't also a couple of kilos. I'm not saying Patrick is always honest, but I think it's naive to simply dismiss anything he says as a "lie" because his criminal associates say he "always lies". He definitely embellishes and seems to be a sociopath, but the grains of truth shouldn't be discarded or discounted, imho.

Click to expand...

See Carol Brant Interview which begins Page 444/729. This is from Page 3 of her interview:

A: "He just said they were going out there because that man was molesting little children that he had in his care and when they walked in, there was a 6 year old Chinese girl, Philipino, whatever with a negligee on and him in the bedroom with her....

Q; "What did he, what did Patrick say he did when he saw it?"

A: "He didn't come out and tell me, nobody would"

There is NO evidence that there was an asian girl in the house, no evidence of a girl with a negligee on and no evidence of molestation. This is a lie.

See interview with Jacopettit and Schumacher, page 1069
Jacopettit states that Gonzalez expressed that he owned a custom bike business and he would buy into Sumners 5th dimension. Gonzalez was, according to Jocopettit, going to pay the back rent once Gonzalez set up the paperwork with an attorney.

There is no evidence that Gonzalez owned a custom bike business and no evidence that he was working with an attorney on setting this up. This is a lie.

As far as the two kilos of Cocaine goes, there is NO evidence there were any drugs in the Billings residence. No drugs were seen being carried out on the video. I imagine that 2 Kilos of Cocaine would be pretty hard to hide in a video. And remember, they probably did not realize there was a video, so they would not have been attempting to hide it if it were there. This is a lie.

I am certain that LPG mixes some reality into his lies. I think that there are grains of fact in everything he says...but what is a liar? A liar is a person who tells lies. It does not mean he never tells the truth. It means that his statements can not be accepted on face value. I believe that this describes LPG.

Like Loss, I have no interest debating this with you further. If you want to believe LPG, go for it.

UnderDog said:

Stallworth is quoted as saying he'd never seen so much money before he saw the Billings' safe and he estimated the cash alone at $300k.

Click to expand...

That was based on some cell phone picture of some safe, with cash overflowing out of it. No one knows where the photo came from, and the chances it was an actual photo of EITHER of the Billing's safes seems about zero, IMHO.

Obviously something is on your mind -- so why not make your point, lay out your thesis? There are a lot of varying points of view here, most of them appreciated even if not adopted, and none of us have access to the ground 'truth', just the documents as released, so maybe your theory is better than the existing one.

Gene said:

Close. I think they are missing because his interview was considered a confession. Confessions are exempt. See below

http://www.okeesheriff.org/sheriff/Communications/PublicInformation/tabid/92/Default.aspx

The Florida Sunshine Law is a very liberal public information law. Basically, all records maintained by a governmental agency are public records subject to release upon request. However, there are many exceptions when involving law enforcement. The following is a list of items exempt from public record release.

Active criminal investigation reports and evidence
Intelligence information
Surveillance methods
Some investigative procedures
Some victim information
Autopsy records
Confessions
Confidential informants
Criminal histories
Some domestic violence information
911 calls
Some juvenile offender records
Inmate records
Medical records

I am surprised that 911 calls are exempt...

Click to expand...

They released all the 911 calls in the Caylee Anthony case.

JBean said:

They released all the 911 calls in the Caylee Anthony case.

Click to expand...

This call will also be released.

The 911 call placed by the neighbor on July 9 was recorded at the time. Authorities say that recording will also be released Thursday.

Click to expand...

http://www.fox10tv.com/dpp/news/crime/Surveillance_Video_Catches_Murder

Just for the record, 2 kilos and hundreds of thousands of dollars CAN fit in a 12 x 12 safe !!!! But yes, no doubt, Patrick is a liar - he can't help it!

redfish said:

Just for the record, 2 kilos and hundreds of thousands of dollars CAN fit in a 12 x 12 safe !!!! But yes, no doubt, Patrick is a liar - he can't help it!

Click to expand...

I do not disagree that drugs could have fit into the safe, but LE opened the safe after getting the combination from the manufacturer. We have a list of what was in the safe, including jewelery. LE did not report finding drugs. In any case I have seen no evidence that drugs were in the safe or the house. I also believe that Morgan has clearly stated that there is no evidence of anything illegal going on in the house.

LPG does mix reality in with his lies. He lies when it is to his advantage, he tells the truth when it is to his advantage. I am certain that many of the things he is saying is true. But it will be impossible to accept anything he says on face value. OTH, Coldiron has a tendancy of telling the truth. After both of his previous major crimes, he did not run, he did not lie he immediately confessed. I would be very interested in hearing what he has to say. Unfortunately, confessions are not subject to sunshine laws.

My theory is pretty simple, the Billings were an obstacle that needed to be removed. Bud Billings was known as a "loan shark" as well as a high interest "legitimate" business. He would carry a briefcase of rolled money to "loan" with a handshake. With regard to the Stallworth comment, I read MS's statement and she indicated that he said that AFTER the crime and "grabbed the money" and was waiting for his share to be paid. It was not in reference to a "photo". With regard to two kilos, that's not a very big package and could be carried in a grocery bag. As for the safe, I'm asserting it was opened before LE retrieved it, that part would seem obvious. Morgan has always been real "cagey" about that bit of info, with good reason.

I have been eager to get on here and post.

I read every document released on this case since the beginning (and live 20 miles away) from P'cola.

Last night our local TV station WEAR ran a story about HW and how they have it from an inside source that he remains a POI. Now, that seems like old news, like maybe WEAR is rehashing old news. But maybe the Sherriff has planted the story to foreshadow an arrest?

It is extremely clear to me that HW is in this thing deep.
1) He was seen at several planning meetings with PG and the others.
2) He made statements that he could have someone "take a vacation they wouldn't return from".
3) He hid the guns in MS.
4) He and PW were attempting to flee by boat.
5) He knew where the safe was..
6) He asked the painting couple if they had no qualms about making money and would they like to attend the meeting...

I understand he made a deal with prosecutors. In fact the assistant SA was interviewed in the above WEAR piece and he said thay cannot charge HW for crimes because he committed them in another state. Wonder what that means? Is he going to see Federal charges or maybe MS charges?

Is this Hugh?

http://www.gulfbreezenews.com/Current/legals/

NOTICE OF

APPLICATION

FOR TAX DEED

NOTICE IS HEREBY GIVEN THAT TARPON IV LLC holder of the following Tax Sale Certificate has filed said Tax Certificate for the Tax Deed to be issued thereon. The Certificate Number and year of Issuance, the Description of property, and Name(s) in which it is assessed is as follows:

Certificate Number: 3533 Year of Issuance: 2007

Description of Property: PROPERTY DESCRIBED IN OR BOOK 1801 PAGE 1353 Parcel ID: 23-2S-28-0000-00901- 0000 Name in which Assessed: HUGH G WIGGINS All of the above property is located in Santa Rosa County, In the State of Florida.

Unless such certificate shall be redeemed according to Law, the Property described in such Certificate will be sold to the Highest Bidder, at the east end lobby of the County Administrative Complex at 6495 Caroline St., Milton, Florida on the 19th day of October, 2009 at 12:00 noon. Dated this the 25th day of August, 2009.

Mary M. Johnson Clerk of the Circuit Court

of Santa Rosa County,

Florida - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

Yes, it is. This is Pamela's property 1206 Soundview Trail in Gulf Breeze, according to the parcel number.

Hugh Wiggins obviously supplied the weapons. What possible deal and why would a deal be offered to him for immunity that would surmount immunity for the drivers' in the crime readily supplied statements to the state attorney?

Solomisskitty said:

Hugh Wiggins obviously supplied the weapons. What possible deal and why would a deal be offered to him for immunity that would surmount immunity for the drivers' in the crime readily supplied statements to the state attorney?

Click to expand...

Because he could tell them where the safe and murder weapons were and that he gave the weapons to Gonz Jr? Maybe they were more interested in making sure they nabbed the trigger man?